Antarctic Melting Faster, Jacksonville still has no plan

[RiversideGator]

Oh, and what caused this coastal recession in Holland over the last 350 years? 



Was it man's CO2 emissions?  Or, perhaps it is a natural process which we do not fully understand.

[RiversideGator]

Except you didnt say "Mandarin was under water" or "south Florida was under water", you said Florida was under water.  And, I do not agree with your new statements either.  Portions of Mandarin and South Florida were as they are now but not all of "Florida".

[Ocklawaha]

Sure the tidal surge and shoreline has changed from time to time, but I believe the geology of Florida speaks volumes to it's rather HIGH past...

Florida Platform:
The Florida Platform lies on the south-central part of the North American Plate, extending to the southeast from the North American continent separating the Gulf of Mexico from the Atlantic Ocean. The Florida Platform, as measured about the 300 foot isopath, spans more than 350 miles at its greatest width and extends southward more than 450 miles at its greatest length. The modern Florida peninsula is the exposed part of the platform and lies predominanly east of the axis of the platform. Most of the State of Florida lies on the Florida Platform; the western panhandle is part of the Gulf Coastal Plain. The basement rocks of the Florida Platform include Precambrian-Cambrian igneous rocks, Ordovician-Devonian Sedimentary rocks, and Triassic-Jurassic volcanic rocks. Florida's igneous and sedimentary foundation separated from what is now the African Plate when the super-continent Pangea rifted apart in the Triassic (pre-Middle Jurassic?) and sutured to the North American craton.

IGNEOUS ROCK is from volcanic activity, one such crater is directly below and as big as the entire Orlando International Airport. So how high was it? No one really knows. But it wasn't alone. We still have at least one hot spring and one area of large surface rock that often rumbles and smells of sulphur... Anyones guess???
Sure not some sand bar like we were taught in school. Most of our volcanic rock is found in deep wells reaching between 3,500' and 18,000' feet in depth. But it is common knowledge in the geology halls that this place has a history not unlike the ring of fire... and maybe not so long ago!

That ought to melt your ice cubes!

Ocklawaha

[gatorback]

Jacksonville is one big fat sandbar east of I95.  Period.  Now how would it get that way? 

[midnightblackrx]

and no. there is no chance of the sand bar that we live on growing.  Only 500 years ago it was all underwater, and that was with a minor difference in sea levels.

What is being discussed is a twenty foot rise from the antarctic alone.  If Greenland melts, add another 20 feet to that.

Stephen.  Are you saying that all of Florida was underwater 500 years ago? I don't know much about Florida history but this seems far fetched to believe the Native Americans settled in FL just in the last 500 years.  Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Ocklawaha]

Did ANYONE READ my post. Sorry guys but the sandbar theory isn't true. Yes they taught us that in school, and no the schools didn't know what they were teaching as Florida has some of the worst State History books in the nation. READ THE POST, Florida's "platform" which probably includes Cuba and the Bahama Islands is 450 miles long... and it's VOLCANIC in origin. This is VERY unlike our neighbor states, many with mountains, but no sign of Volcano activity. Last time I spent reading up on the subject I think we had some 8 major volcano's within the current State, most below Jacksonville. As anyone who has lived in Alaska, California, the Pacific States or Colombia, can tell you pressure changes such as rising sea levels can set these old babies back to work. Plate movement can also come from pressure changes, crack or scoot a plate and the vent could be reopened in seconds.

As it is, we live in a very peaceful part of the geologic World, and speaking of that world, that is probably the most dangerous condition to live in. "We don't have earthquakes"... "We don't have volcano's..." BULL SHIT! We may well be very overdue for a good wake-up call from Mother Earth. Put a little Sea pressure on us and rather then sink like the Titanic, we might indeed rise like Hawaii.

FACT: Sometime after St. Augustine was settled, we discovered the St. Augustine Fault, the City had a good quake that pretty well trashed all of the work that had been done.

FACT: In the 1880's WE (Jacksonville) had our windows broken, and shelves emptied by another sleeper, the Charleston Fault, which runs from Charleston SC to Jacksonville. That same quake did more damage in 2 minutes then the combined Federal Armies had done in 5 years. (Sorry Yankee Friends, but we could have whipped y'all with corn stalks, but y'all just wouldn't play that way).

CONCLUSION: We sit between or on two of the largest known faults on the East Coast... Feel better now?

FACT: The Florida platform has some 8 volcano craters in it. (Just within modern Florida) and they are NOT that old in the Earth clock.

FACT: Throughout our history our Earthquakes have been explosive. Not rolling or wave types, but sudden violent jolt, often with loud explosive sounds. So are we talking about events of 20,000,000 million years ago? No! Try, the 1980's, 90's, and 2000's.

FACT: Quakes CAN wake sleeping volcano's.

FACT: Pressure CAN cause Quakes.

So rather then run out and buy a new Carolina Skiff, I'd suggest we might want Snow Ski's. Nobody knows what this will do to Florida. We still have a hot spring, many sulfur springs, and at least one vent that was active in the late 1800's.

Frankly, I think MICKEY would look good at 8,000 feet. SO if we rise rather then sink, I just want two things...
Move that air traffic from Orlando to JIA, We could use the extra revenue. Y'all could help me with the next one, I want to be Inspector General of the Cuban State Railroads... We could built a mainline from Miami to Havana and let's see light rail in... or... and... hee hee.

Ocklawaha

[second_pancake]

But, if you truly want to see something with your naked eye, just take a trip down to Ponte Vedra Beach or Vilano Beach and watch the houses falling into the ocean. 

Some snaps please?

[/img]





These were grabbed from News4Jax but if you Google, Ponte Vedra or Vilano+erosion, you'll find plenty more.

[second_pancake]

I haven't had a chance to read everything that I missed since I posted earlier, so someone may have already addressed this, but if not...

You do understand the difference between a sea level rise and coastal erosion, dont you?  Since it is apparent that you do not, I would suggest you read this:

The information you provided does not prove anything contrary to what I've stated.  Erosion is, (based on the definition you provided in your link), "...the wearing away of land or the removal of beach or dune sediments by wave action, tidal currents, wave currents, or drainage."  It's the degree of erosion that is causing the problem.  When the ocean levels rise, the high-tide becomes higher covering and displacing more land.  If the erosion were caused by a storm, it would be a one time occurence and you would not continue to see the water pass over the areas affected by storm-surge. 

[second_pancake]

When I read these posts I had a fesh glass full of ice and tea. When the Ice melted the glass wasn't nearly as full as when I sat it there... Wouldn't the North Pole effect be the same since Ice contains o2 ?

Just want to make sure everyone understands the ice-in-a-glass analogy.  In order to recreate the effect of large glaciers melting into the ocean, you would have to stack your glass with ice over and above the rim of the glass.  Remember, glaciers can not only be miles below the water, but also miles above.  It is the amount of the glacier sitting above sea level and melting that cause the problem.  So, if you packed a glass with ice, none above the rim, you would be simulating ice melting BELOW the level of water.  If the glass was packed with ice and then stacked several inches high above the rim, the melting effect would result in not only a glass full of water, but water spillage out of the glass.  That spillage is the increase in water level.

[Ocklawaha]

Yeah, I know Stephendare, but I really want a 50 yard line seat if things start moving around under us!

Ocklawaha

[gatorback]

To quote Sam Kinison, "See this.  It's sand.  What's it going to be on a 1,000 years?  Sand!"
Except for Orlando.  Orlando is going to be a nice little island in the next 100 years.

[jaxnative]

This article is from icecap.us which I recommend looking at to find some sanity in climatology and meteorology and objective reporting on the global warming hysteria.

Latest Antarctic Sea Ice Extent
By Joseph D’Aleo, CCM

Once again today we were told in the media that the antarctic ice is melting at an increasing and alarming rate. The story appeared in many papers including the Washington Post and the UK Globe Mail today based on a research project, led by Eric Rignot, principal scientist for the Radar Science and Engineering Section at NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, California, and appearing in the current issue of Nature Geoscience. In an e-mail, Dr. Rignot attributed the shrinkage in the ice sheet to an upwelling of warm waters along the Antarctic coast, which is causing some glaciers to flow more rapidly into the ocean. He suspects the trend is due to global warming.

This seemed odd coming shortly after reports that the Southern Hemisphere (Antarctica) set a record for the MAXIMUM extent of ice since satellite monitoring began in 1979 this year. We thought we would take a look at the latest NSIDC graphs for southern hemispheric ice extent.




I will remind you it is mid-summer in the Southern Hemisphere. Ice extent remains well (one million square kilometers) above the 28 year average and an impressive 3 million square kilometers above last year at this time!. There is clearly a lot of year to year variability in the record but the demise of the Antartic icecap seems to be anything but imminent. Most of the warming and melt in recent years has been in the vicinity of the Antarctic Peninsula, a small portion of the Antarctic which reaches above the Antarctic Circle and is a choke-point for the circumpolar ocean currents, and is more susceptible to variations.  There’s also an active subsea volcano in the area, perhaps leading to the warm water upwelling in the study.

[Midway ®]

So it's settled then. There is no global warming.

Do you think the Giants will win the "Big Game"?

[RiversideGator]

To quote Sam Kinison, "See this.  It's sand.  What's it going to be on a 1,000 years?  Sand!"
Except for Orlando.  Orlando is going to be a nice little island in the next 100 years.

Sure.  The great things about these "predictions" is none of us will be here to claim credit if they come true or take the blame if they do not.  Their real benefit lies in their ability to scare the public into adopting the green agenda.

[RiversideGator]

BTW, extreme cold in Siberia and the northern US may be hampering the hoped for melting of the ice caps.  Wow, this is cold:

Russians Brace For The Big Chill

January 16, 2008 8:18 p.m. EST

Jupiter Kalambakal - AHN News Writer

Moscow, Russia (AHN) - Russians are bracing for temperatures of as low as minus 55 degrees Celsius (minus 67 degrees Fahrenheit) in Siberia as Russia's emergencies ministry warns on Wednesday of its impending dangers in the coming weeks.

Government agencies were placed on high alert, reports AFP. The ministry ordered local administration officials to prepare for the extreme chill expected to last until Jan. 21.

The ministry warned that the unusually cold weather could kill, cause frost-bite, conk heaters and cut electricity to homes, disrupt transport, increase the rate of car accidents and even destroy buildings across Siberia.

The freezing temperatures have already caused overloading of electricity grids and power interruptions in the regions of Irkutsk and Tomsk because of overused heaters in homes. Two people have already died and more than 30 others hospitalized with forst-bite in Irkutsk, reports AFP citing state media.

Bloomberg reports that worst hit will be the Siberian region of Evenkiya, while neighbor Georgia, whose climate is subtropical, already plunged to as low as minus 35 degrees Celsius. Lake Paliastomi in the western Georgia froze for the first time in 50 years, reports Rustavi-2 television.

Average temperatures in large Siberian cities in January usually range between minus 15 degrees Celsius and minus 39 degrees Celsius, according to data from weatherbase.com. Schools have been closed down in at least four regions because of the cold.

http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7009739004