Replacing chairs and cutting down trees to cost $100k for Hemming Plaza

[JeffreyS]

We had a great food truck bazaar at Bold City Brewery that attracted hundreds of residents today despite the rain.  Something like it could be programmed at Hemming Plaza in less than a month for pennies on a dollar.  Another idea would be to designate Monroe and Duval Streets as everyday drive up locations.  Then take that $100k we're about to waste and invest it in a children's playscape or tot lot, to attract groups taking field trips to the museum and library.   The extra foot traffic will naturally run off the bad element (there's nothing wrong with the old guys playing chess, so I don't consider them bad, imo).  Concepts like this would bring more people into the park in the short term than anything this committee cooks up.

I do not think we could do a tot lot at this point. Ron Littlepage has spent the last two months trying his best to convince people that they would rather be in Syria right now than Hemming. That has caused groups have started to avoid trips and tours to that area. Which Mr. Littlepage has reported as though their fear were caused by actual experience and not his columns.

[ben says]

What a comedy of errors....you'd think the place was being occupied by lepers. To a lot of people, I guess these people are lepers. Makes me sick.

And with all due respect, I don't think Jerry deserves one iota of business.

[ronchamblin]

Great posts Ron.  I think if you refer to the new plan for the park, the plan is to remove all of the trees and replace them with flower beds.

I got a brief look at a design for the park which was done several years ago.  Today, I attempted to locate the proposed design on the Internet but without success.  The comments I've heard about the plan is that it is only 60% complete, and that there is no money to do the work now.  But you are correct, the park is to be flattened, and there are to be almost no trees, but there will be flower beds.  I cannot recall if there are to be benches.  Surely however.  I cannot imagine a park without some benches.     

In any case, I'm not sure of the motivation to change the park so extensively anyway.  I suspect however that the reasoning is that "IF" the park has no clusters of tables and benches, and has no clear open areas where groups can meet and gather, and has only somewhat narrow pathways through the flower beds and hedges, then that is to be the solution to the commandeering problem.   And to some degree, it makes sense, as the new design would only invite a stroll down the narrow paths through the park.  It's just that the new design, if implemented, would not be as welcoming or interesting as is the current Hemming.  The new design definitely projects a different park environment, with a quite different function and use scenario.

       

[Debbie Thompson]

Ron, if you feel uncomfortable addressing the council, do what I do. Write out a statement ahead of time, and bring it along.  If someone else addresses something ahead of me, I cross that off.  If I think of something I need to add, I'll jot it on my written copy.  But I have something written out ahead of time that I can read if I freeze up or start babbling, which I have been know to do.  :-)

I hate the plan to change Hemming. I think it's just beautiful as it is.  A treeless lawn is certainly not conducive to visitors.

If it's coming before council, and you know when, please post it here.

[vicupstate]

If the trees are removed from Hemming Plaza, it will be a useless as the 'new' plaza across from the Library on Main St. 

If this happens, I will have no choice but to give up what little hope I still have for Jacksonville.  The very stupidity of this idea is mind-boggling.

[Noone]

If the trees are removed from Hemming Plaza, it will be a useless as the 'new' plaza across from the Library on Main St. 

+1 Great Point.

[jcjohnpaint]

These guys are quite the think tank.  Ron you should set them straight.  The dvi's ideas are are so counterproductive.

[ronchamblin]

When I oppose something such as the proposed changes to the park, and when I view the proposal as something stupid, I begin to wonder by what bit of ignorance I continue to hold my opposition.  In some respects, I failed the test of honesty at the meetings because my nature prevented me from forcing clarity of purpose from those at the meetings so that I might replace my bit of ignorance with convencing information, if there is to be any, and therefore I deserve for the moment to be on the losing side of the debate.

If I had had the mettle to force my opinions upon these individuals, most of whom are well meaning and considerate, and to force their opinions clearly upon me, the direction in which we are now heading, might not be.  But of course there is time for continued input, and therefore time to turn things more favorably to us.

When one cannot understand the logic or sense of a decision, when one simply cannot fathom the reasons for what one considers to be a somewhat stupid action, one might find that within the dynamics lies motives not relevant to the fundamental purpose of the whole scenario, but one might find motives related to money, power, contracts, job security, or agency security â€" all of which is somewhat understandable, but not too much so, as it is this kind of hogwash which spoils genuine efforts to get the best things done in a city environment.
 
Perhaps some at the city council will see our comments and will place our reasoning upon their brains as they soon consider the fate of the park and its trees, tables, chairs and benches; and of course the fate of the people about whom this whole conversation is really about.     

[Jaxson]

I agree with Stephen Dare that the city has supplanted Hemming Plaza's historic role as a center of our civic life.  Yes, the city's commerce revolved around the river, but the river was a victim of benign neglect as wharves and warehouses populated the riverfront.  Even in the 1950s and 1960s, the river was more of an afterthought as the city aggressively moved government buildings and parking lots to the river but placed no public parks on the river - except for Friendship Park on the opposite bank of the river.  It would be years before we had Metropolitan Park and the Jacksonville Landing.  By then, the focus of city life did shift from the dying retail center around Hemming Plaza to the new Rouse development at the Landing.  It was indeed Hemming Park that was the spiritual heart of downtown before city priorities went elsewhere.  I remember the darker days of Hemming Plaza when former JCpenney, May-Cohen, and Woolworth locations stood empty and the plaza was all but abandoned by major retail.

[sheclown]

These guys are quite the think tank.  Ron you should set them straight.  The dvi's ideas are are so counterproductive.

Well, I knew the hundred thousand dollar figure was too good to be true.

heres the latest update from the committee.

Naturally DVI will need thirty thousand dollars a year to oversee the removable furniture.


http://jacksonville.com/opinion/blog/403455/steve-patterson/2012-03-30/hemming-plaza-fix-could-cost-100000-now-more-later

Cleaning up Hemming Plaza in downtown Jacksonville could cost less than $100,000 - but that will be just a start toward a long-term fix, a group reporting to a City Council committee concluded Friday.

A subcommittee reporting to a council committee examining the park in front of City Hall said some rusting metal furniture should be replaced with movable tables and chairs, and some trees should be cut down.

The costs in the short-term work include a projected $30,000 yearly for downtown ambassadors employed by Donwtown Vision Inc. to clean and maintain moveable furniture, which would be staged and locked up when it's not in use. The subcommittee, a mix of city employees and neighboring business owners, initially budgeted $50,000 for replacing all the park tables and chairs. They later agreed much of the existing furnitue could stay, so the real price would be less, but a firm cost hasn't been set

Hey, I'll do it for $25,000 a year!!  Are we putting this out to bid?

[ronchamblin]

I agree with Stephen Dare that the city has supplanted Hemming Plaza's historic role as a center of our civic life.  Yes, the city's commerce revolved around the river, but the river was a victim of benign neglect as wharves and warehouses populated the riverfront.  Even in the 1950s and 1960s, the river was more of an afterthought as the city aggressively moved government buildings and parking lots to the river but placed no public parks on the river - except for Friendship Park on the opposite bank of the river.  It would be years before we had Metropolitan Park and the Jacksonville Landing.  By then, the focus of city life did shift from the dying retail center around Hemming Plaza to the new Rouse development at the Landing.  It was indeed Hemming Park that was the spiritual heart of downtown before city priorities went elsewhere.  I remember the darker days of Hemming Plaza when former JCpenney, May-Cohen, and Woolworth locations stood empty and the plaza was all but abandoned by major retail.

Makes sense Jaxson.  What does this idea of shifting retail centers mean for the future of Hemming?  How should the change in the center of retail affect the attention given to Hemming?  Should Hemming still be given importance as being the center of the north core area?  If Hemming "was" something, what should it be now?

[thelakelander]

It's obvious to me that since we've surrounded it by government and cultural uses, it should become more of a "civic" square.  It should be a place where public speeches are given (like it used to be).  It should be a central green space within a concrete downtown core (which it used to be).  It should be a comfortable place for pedestrians with amenities (like public restrooms....like it used to be).  It should be surrounding by pedestrian scale uses that activate the park's perimeter (like it used to be).  Imo, just about anything else (giving DVI $30k a year for a chair shuffler, etc.) over complicates the situation and potentially makes it worse than it is today.

[Noone]

Ron, if you feel uncomfortable addressing the council, do what I do. Write out a statement ahead of time, and bring it along.  If someone else addresses something ahead of me, I cross that off.  If I think of something I need to add, I'll jot it on my written copy.  But I have something written out ahead of time that I can read if I freeze up or start babbling, which I have been know to do.  :-)

I hate the plan to change Hemming. I think it's just beautiful as it is.  A treeless lawn is certainly not conducive to visitors.

If it's coming before council, and you know when, please post it here.

There is an Urban Core CPAC meeting today at the Ed Ball building. What is their position? Have they taken one? I'm going to try and make it.   

[tufsu1]

I have emailed one of the CPAC members to express frustration with the Hemming Plaza ideas

[duvaldude08]

It sounds to me like DVI wants to destroy Hemming Plaza, limit food trucks and tear down buildings. With that being that case, why would be even considering "recommendations" from them? That are complete idiots.