Solving Overpriced Downtown Parking?

[blandman]

http://www.urbancincy.com/2012/03/parking-mandates-stymy-development-in-cincinnatis-urban-neighborhoods/

An interesting article about how parking regulations are a hindrance to downtown redevelopment in Cincinnati.  It sounds like too much parking is the problem there.  An interesting quote from the article:  "Requiring parking for historic structures that have never had parking is incentivizing their demolition."  I'm not smart on why there are so many vacant lots in downtown Jax, but it certainly seems like there are more parking garages than historic buildings.

[cityimrov]

DT's success and failures are based more on over regulation and COJ keeping their hands in the cookie jar than general budget.  Also, we can get rail into downtown without suburban dollars and I'd actually encourage us to take those routes initially.  The routes I'm referring to are the mobility fee funded initial transit projects and the FEC intercity rail projects.  Advocate to get these up and running first so locals can experience what rail brings before asking them to raise taxes to pay for a more extensive project.

Grand slams won't happen without the support of the suburban residents nor can they be reached without their support.  Downtown is not a bubble.

Unless I'm reading this article incorrectly http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2011-oct-city-council-prepares-to-halt-mobility-fee, that mobility fee almost got shot down by the city council.  The suburbs will indirectly be paying these fees (unless limited to only downtown construction) so it's their money is being used.  They will also be liable for any lawsuits.  Any approved rail route is going to bring even more politics that will drag them in.

The people who live in the suburbs are not hostile to downtown.  Treating them like an enemy or a big walking wallet will get downtown nowhere fast.  They want to support downtown but they are not willing to add more stress in their daily lives to support it. 

Downtown parking today is stressful, confusing, and expensive to the vast majority of people living in this city.

[thelakelander]

Grand slams won't happen without the support of the suburban residents nor can they be reached without their support.  Downtown is not a bubble.

^My point is that the focus should not be on grand slams.  Downtown is not a bubble.  It's an urban neighborhood.  It should be treated as such, so livability should be of greater concern initially.  Get the basics of urban quality of life right before catering to suburbanites or asking them for their money.  When you begin to cater to suburbanites, you open yourself up to a general mindset that doesn't align with the basic underlying elements needed to create a successful pedestrian scaled atmosphere.

Unless I'm reading this article incorrectly http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2011-oct-city-council-prepares-to-halt-mobility-fee, that mobility fee almost got shot down by the city council.  The suburbs will indirectly be paying these fees (unless limited to only downtown construction) so it's their money is being used.  They will also be liable for any lawsuits.  Any approved rail route is going to bring even more politics that will drag them in.

You're reading it incorrectly.  With the mobility fee, the city is divided into ten development zones.  New development within each zone would pay a transportation impact fee that would be used to fund a project intended to alleviate the negative impact that project would put on infrastructure within that particular zone.  If you're not developing a new project, you won't be subject to this one time fee, regardless of where you stay (burbs, country, or inner city).  In essence, you really don't need the support of any individual taxpayer for these projects since they aren't funded by them.  It's an innovative way of paying for public infrastructure.  Although we decided to not collect the fee this year, several cities are copying the concept we developed and approved last year.

The people who live in the suburbs are not hostile to downtown.  Treating them like an enemy or a big walking wallet will get downtown nowhere fast.  They want to support downtown but they are not willing to add more stress in their daily lives to support it.

This isn't about treating someone like an enemy.  My point is focusing more on initially getting the basic components of a viable livable downtown in place first.  If you don't do that, you're underlying causes for complete failure are still in place and it won't matter how much money you burn on it. 

Downtown parking today is stressful, confusing, and expensive to the vast majority of people living in this city.

It certainly is.  Something needs to be done but I'm not sold that the parking problem is special event rates on private lots.

[cityimrov]

Get the basics of urban quality of life right before catering to suburbanites or asking them for their money.

That's a very big political door your opening.  It's like your saying to the suburbanites that their opinions don't matter and your going to do whatever you want with downtown.

You're reading it incorrectly.  With the mobility fee, the city is divided into ten development zones.  New development within each zone would pay a transportation impact fee that would be used to fund a project intended to alleviate the negative impact that project would put on infrastructure within that particular zone.  If you're not developing a new project, you won't be subject to this one time fee, regardless of where you stay (burbs, country, or inner city).  In essence, you really don't need the support of any individual taxpayer for these projects since they aren't funded by them.  It's an innovative way of paying for public infrastructure.  Although we decided to not collect the fee this year, several cities are copying the concept we developed and approved last year.

Are you sure this isn't a hidden tax that the developer will eventually pass on to the end buyer?  Unless our developers are very altruistic, it don't sound like they are willing to pay it out of their profits.  How does this prevent downtown zone from taking funds from the southside zone?  What happens if one of the zone's transit project goes bankrupt?  Who pays?   

It certainly is.  Something needs to be done but I'm not sold that the parking problem is special event rates on private lots.

I disagree.  It's downtown's first and last impression to most people.  It's also a very bad impression.  Fixing it is the first step towards making downtown more friendly.  Even if we get nothing else, the spectacular river view from downtown is a wonderful gift from mother nature that I hope a few will enjoy at least once a week. 

[thelakelander]

Get the basics of urban quality of life right before catering to suburbanites or asking them for their money.

That's a very big political door your opening.  It's like your saying to the suburbanites that their opinions don't matter and your going to do whatever you want with downtown.

[/quote]

I think you're taking what I'm saying the wrong way.  I'm talking about modifying bad policies to allow for downtown to become a self sustaining neighborhood to naturally generate the activity everyone wants to see....without spending excessive money on gimmicks that clearly have not worked in the last 50 years.  I simply don't understand why one would need the support of the county, as a whole, to change policies currently restricting downtown.  Seriously, do we need to get the Bartram Park guy's approval to make sure buildings in downtown interact with the street, that downtown parks are properly maintained or to make sure that mass transit effectively connects downtown with the surrounding urban core neighborhoods?  These are the types of things I'm talking about that I do not believe the support of the suburbs is needed to make happen.  These are the types of things that when in place, that naturally lead to the end product that people expect and want to see.

Are you sure this isn't a hidden tax that the developer will eventually pass on to the end buyer?  Unless our developers are very altruistic, it don't sound like they are willing to pay it out of their profits.

It's not a tax, its an impact fee.  If you buy into a new development, the addition auto trips you generate from that development on existing infrastructure is the negative impact that is being mitigated by the impact fee.  If you don't pay for what you negatively impact, then you're placing that obligation on the general taxpayers.  Currently, the buck has been passed with decades of our ponzi scheme styled development pattern.  It's the primary reason why this city is broke today.  The mobility fee and plan was intended to help make us fiscally stable while improving our quality of life.

How does this prevent downtown zone from taking funds from the southside zone?

Downtown projects would be funded by development within downtown.  Southside projects would be funded by development within the Southside's zone.  The purpose of having mobility zones was to make sure that money generated in one section of town wasn't being spent in another section.  For the past half century, tax money generated in downtown and the surrounding neighborhoods has been funneled to fund growth in outlying areas, at their economic expense.  Now we're getting around to leveling the playing field.

What happens if one of the zone's transit project goes bankrupt?  Who pays?

Probably the same thing that happens if a road project in a suburban zone goes bankrupt.  They are essentially funded the same way, expect that the two priority transit projects are significantly cheaper than the eight priority road projects.  Neverthless, projects would be built when proper funding is in place.   

It certainly is.  Something needs to be done but I'm not sold that the parking problem is special event rates on private lots.

I disagree.  It's downtown's first and last impression to most people.  It's also a very bad impression.  Fixing it is the first step towards making downtown more friendly.  Even if we get nothing else, the spectacular river view from downtown is a wonderful gift from mother nature that I hope a few will enjoy at least once a week.

You're ignoring the +50,000 people down here everyday and the additional +100,000 that live within a three mile radius of it.  The first step is shoring up the environment for the residents who call this section their home.  The vibe that creates generates the thing that attracts tourist.  We can't treat downtown like a theme park.  It's a community just like any other in this city.  It just happens to be more mixed use and pedestrian scale.