7-Eleven Celebration @ Landing

[tufsu1]

Nice to know that the Mayor considers this newsworthy!

well considering the company's CEO will be here, they must think its pretty important too!

[fsujax]

Nothing wrong with a little celebration. At least they are investing in our Downtown. Where's that Gate Station downtown again??? oh yeah thats right.

[ronchamblin]

Has anyone heard about a 7-Eleven going in at Magnificat's location, where Benoit has been for years.  I realize that one is going in somewhere around Julia or the next block west.

[thelakelander]

I thought that potential deal died months ago?

[Jaxson]

Nice to know that the Mayor considers this newsworthy!

It is if 7-Eleven has decided to expand in this market we will likely see double digit stores.  Also a major chain saying our downtown is safe to invest in may carry weight with others looking to invest.

I am also sure that the soon-to-be created jobs of opening new 7-Eleven locations and the soon-to-be created jobs of employees could reasonably be considered newsworthy...

As for a previous posting about solving all of our city's ills first, I can only assume that local leaders can walk and chew gum at the same time - thus engaging in matters and issues on all levels without somehow being 'neglectful.'

[ronchamblin]

Talked with Benoit of Magnificat this evening. He says that last Thursday the building owner's rep at his location informed him that 7-Eleven is planning to take his location at about $6,000 / month, over twice what he is paying. Benoit does only lunch now, and cannot afford to approach the $6,000.   He says that eviction is coming, as he has no lease. I suggested that he might consider opening for early breakfast, and perhaps some evenings so that he could approach the $6K / month figure.   Initially I thought that the owner, in order to gain a higher rent from Benoit, might be bluffing about 7 Eleven wanting to come into that building.  I doubt if it is a bluff.

In any case, when I think of any kind of 7-Eleven type of store located on that special corner overlooking the park, I cringe.  In my view, a 7-Eleven on the corner would be degrading the whole area.  Imagine sitting in the park, and looking over at a 7-Eleven.  Then imagine looking at people sitting at Magnificat’s outside tables, which he plans to install.   

I think there is reason or cause for opposing the 7-Eleven there, based on the fact that one would degrade the area.  Surely the 7-Eleven could prosper a block away so that it doesn’t degrade the park environment.

In my view, we, the business owners adjacent, and anybody concerned about the images offered by certain types of businesses, should be able to oppose an incoming business if there is validity in the reasons for opposing. 

Benoit, if he is to stay there, might be forced to open more hours and offer more options, such as breakfast and dinner, so that he can afford to compete with the $6K offer by 7-Eleven.  After all, if is understandable that the owner of the building is attempting to make as much money from the property as possible.  That’s the name of the game.

Ultimately, being open for only lunch at any location is not a very efficient or full use of the building or space asset.  Seems to me that if he wants to stay there, he will have to open more hours and increase his gross so that he can pay at least $5K / month.  I think he utilizes about 1,400 sq. ft. on the main floor, although there is storage on the second floor, and a small basement.     

[thelakelander]

This is a tough situation.  I've seen 7-Eleven develop some pretty nice urban stores so a nice location can be developed, although COJ would have to drive the process. 



However, I wouldn't want to see Magnificat forced out if it were avoidable.  If push comes to shove, I wonder if it would be possible for Magnificat to move to the former Shelby's Coffee spot across the street in the main library?  Right now that space is completely underutilized like most of COJ properties downtown.

Having two places on that corner, opening up to the street and park with outdoor seating would be a huge plus for the area, imo.

[ronchamblin]

Absolutely Lake.  The two places on the corner having outside seating would be great.  From the looks of the photo, that 7-Eleven must get into lunch, coffee, donuts, exotic drinks etc.  They’ve come a long way from the first location I remember about 1957 or so, on the corner of Wheat and Firestone. 

Regarding Shelby’s, there were some problems with operating in the library.  For example, Shelby’s was prevented from placing outdoor signs.  And does the library have a full hood system, which Benoit needs for his operation?  Also, their operating hours could not extend past those of the library.

Beniot talked yesterday about the idea of moving to the old Chew location on Adams, a move which would be expensive, but feasible.  I still hope he can expand his hours to make up the difference in rent.

If he is doing about $1,000 per day now, not Sat/Sun of course, that places his gross at about $26,000 per month.  If his rent is calculated on 1,400 sq. ft at $20 / sq. ft., he is paying about $2,300 per month.  If he opened for breakfast, coffee, espresso etc, he would probably gross an additional $400 per day, or an additional $10,400 per month, giving him the extra for the increased rent of $6,000 per month.  Of course, his labor and product costs would increase too, so it would be tight.

Then he has the option to open on Saturdays for breakfast and lunch.  The bottom line might be that his space is underutilized.  Notice how a CVS will max out the use of a space by opening 24 hours per day, which only illustrates the idea of maximum use of any owned or purchased property.

In other words, if anyone is going to rent a space and use it only for lunch, it might be a luxury they really can’t afford.  Why not use the space for breakfast and dinner?  That of course requires extra staff, and a lot more work from the manager/owner.  Even though Beniot opens only for lunch, I see him often working from morning to late afternoon, working product, cleaning etc.  So if he opened for breakfast, he would have to start his day at 6 a. m. or so.

Of course 7-Eleven has the option to open 24 hours, which would be good for the core if somebody at the Carling needed an aspirin at 3:00 a.m.  Of course, this has little to do with the idea of a 7-Eleven being right on one of the most attractive corners of the city core.  On the positive side for 7-Eleven however, I will have to admit that it is somewhat of a waste to see Beniot’s place closed so much during the mornings, late afternoons, and Saturdays and Sundays.  At least the 7-Eleven would be open all day and most of the night, every day of the year.

If 7-Eleven did open there on the corner, it would be a case of a fundamentally inappropriate business being able to make an entry into an area only because of the area’s current weakness or depressed condition.  Therefore, although the 7-Eleven at that prime and beautiful location on one of the best blocks in our city core might be tolerated by many during the current depressed conditions, those same people who favored its entry now might later see the fallacy of it, and wish it had never happened. 

This brings up the question of the length of the lease which 7-Eleven might wish to engage.  It also brings up the probability that Blanch Pavlese’s (sp?) sons, the current owners, who live somewhere up north, are completely isolated from any concern about the aesthetics of our city core, and are only interested in the bottom line of the rent due each month.  So much for distant owners.

Still……….. surely the 7-Eleven people can find “any other” location other than that of the beautiful corner facing the park.  What of a place north of city hall, nearer to the FBC, closer to Springfield?  Or east, on Main Street?  Or on Adams between Main and Hogan?  Or in the Elk’s building?  One problem is that there are not many suitable places of right size, places which open to the street.  Downtown desperately needs to increase the small to moderate sized spaces having street access so that various businesses can have good options for leasing. 
 
   

[ben says]

Ron, do you know what's going on with the Worman's location? I think Magnificat would do fantastic there, if and only if, they wanted to expand their operations to cover a 6 a.m. breakfast. From what I understand, as I used to be close with the family, most of the Wormans are dead, and the ones still living have no interest in resurrecting the business. From another source, maybe on MetroJax, I hear the only impediment to putting something in that space is the Wormans don't want someone moving "in their own likeness," i.e. no delis. A little confused though, as I haven't seen a For Sale sign in the space?

[ronchamblin]

Don't know what's going on at Worman's, but I agree that the potential for a good breakfast / lunch place seems in the picture.  I will convey the idea to Benoit when I see him.  I used to eat breakfast there once or twice per week.  Being there would cause him to lose some of the core area "walking" patrons, but he will gain the courthouse workers.  Overall, it seems feasible.   

[thelakelander]

Regarding Shelby’s, there were some problems with operating in the library.  For example, Shelby’s was prevented from placing outdoor signs.  And does the library have a full hood system, which Benoit needs for his operation?  Also, their operating hours could not extend past those of the library.

I'm not sure if they have a full hood system but allowing outdoor signage and retail oriented operating hours are simple policy changes.  It should be just as easy to address these policies than removing or purchasing new amenities for Hemming Plaza.  This is an example of where the city simply restricts natural market rate growth in downtown from happening.

Of course 7-Eleven has the option to open 24 hours, which would be good for the core if somebody at the Carling needed an aspirin at 3:00 a.m.  Of course, this has little to do with the idea of a 7-Eleven being right on one of the most attractive corners of the city core.  On the positive side for 7-Eleven however, I will have to admit that it is somewhat of a waste to see Beniot’s place closed so much during the mornings, late afternoons, and Saturdays and Sundays.  At least the 7-Eleven would be open all day and most of the night, every day of the year.

If 7-Eleven did open there on the corner, it would be a case of a fundamentally inappropriate business being able to make an entry into an area only because of the area’s current weakness or depressed condition.  Therefore, although the 7-Eleven at that prime and beautiful location on one of the best blocks in our city core might be tolerated by many during the current depressed conditions, those same people who favored its entry now might later see the fallacy of it, and wish it had never happened. 

This brings up the question of the length of the lease which 7-Eleven might wish to engage.  It also brings up the probability that Blanch Pavlese’s (sp?) sons, the current owners, who live somewhere up north, are completely isolated from any concern about the aesthetics of our city core, and are only interested in the bottom line of the rent due each month.  So much for distant owners.

Still……….. surely the 7-Eleven people can find “any other” location other than that of the beautiful corner facing the park.  What of a place north of city hall, nearer to the FBC, closer to Springfield?  Or east, on Main Street?  Or on Adams between Main and Hogan?  Or in the Elk’s building?  One problem is that there are not many suitable places of right size, places which open to the street.  Downtown desperately needs to increase the small to moderate sized spaces having street access so that various businesses can have good options for leasing.

I'm totally fine with 7-Eleven being on major corners.  They've proven time and time again in markets way more vibrant than downtown Jax will ever be in our lifetimes, that they can fit in and add to the pedestrian scale atmosphere.  They'd also be open 7-days a week and cater to downtown's residential population like they do in urban cities all across the country.  So 7-Eleven, short or long term would be the least of my concerns in this situation. 















Personally, I'd be more concerned with finding a new financially viable location for Magnificat if they are forced to move and immediately addressing restrictive public policies that limit market rate growth from naturally happening (Library/Shelbys location).  In addition, the city needs to address how City Hall, the old YMCA building, and Snyder Memorial Church integrate with the park.  All three of these buildings form permanent dead zones around the park's perimeter.  All should include some use at the street corners that open up to the park and encourage pedestrian scale activity.

[ben says]

Not to hijack too much, but what's going on with the old Library?!

[JeffreyS]

The trick to having a great setup for a 7-eleven in that space will be the city making sure the design is appropriate.

[Bridges]

I think I've posted this before, but the 7-Eleven in Tarrytown, NY. has a great design.  On a street with a lot of boutiques, very Avondale-ish.  Didn't even know it was a 7-Eleven at first.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=7+eleven+tarrytown&ll=41.076262,-73.858294&spn=0.00461,0.026157&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&fb=1&gl=us&hq=7+eleven&hnear=0x89c2eac92b29513d:0x5f42558efd66726f,Tarrytown,+NY&cid=0,0,10454077500883803203&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=41.076254,-73.858303&panoid=4EISpLNUIYqyCnHlClKjqA&cbp=12,263.79,,0,-5.23

[ben says]

I think I've posted this before, but the 7-Eleven in Tarrytown, NY. has a great design.  On a street with a lot of boutiques, very Avondale-ish.  Didn't even know it was a 7-Eleven at first.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=7+eleven+tarrytown&ll=41.076262,-73.858294&spn=0.00461,0.026157&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&fb=1&gl=us&hq=7+eleven&hnear=0x89c2eac92b29513d:0x5f42558efd66726f,Tarrytown,+NY&cid=0,0,10454077500883803203&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=41.076254,-73.858303&panoid=4EISpLNUIYqyCnHlClKjqA&cbp=12,263.79,,0,-5.23

The face of a 7-11 is definitely not what it used to be. I think that's a common misconception with the business. I think they are polar opposites from what they were 20-30 years ago. People have visions of a glorified Citgo/Shell, when in actually, they are higher "class" convenient store.