Alan Grayson Fights for US!

[FayeforCure]

There will always be a subset of people who are criminal fuckups whether the are receiving a government paycheck or stealing it from a government project.

THAT is what always gets me...........the Republican propaganda of distraction.........pointing to the little fish while ignoring the bigger fish (government contractors and banks ripping off the tax payer) is hilarious. The inflated story of welfare queen and "dependency" is passed down from one self-righteous generation to the next.

As you said Stephen...........their fixed believes are merely to make themselves feel better:

The idea that you can reduce your view to groups of people to equate all of them with rats, dogs, cats or animals----"if you feed them, they will get used to it" is nauseating and pretty much takes away any notion of our shared humanity or our aspirations to something better, and focuses only on the human failings.

If you think people stay on "welfare" because it is "easier" then you have bought into a pretty big lie that exists to make you (and any of us in the middle to upper classes) feel smug and condescending.

Looking down on the little guy or gal is so much easier and makes one feel so much more superior than pointing to where the REAL rip-offs take place:

Widespread corporate welfare/rip-off benefiting private industry of all kinds.

http://www.youtube.com/v/izT-kQYkWzw?

Unfortunately the better ad showing pallets of shrink wrapped money bills being waste has been removed from youtube, but here is where they talk about that other hard hitting ad........
http://blueamerica.crooksandliars.com/2008/08/27/blue-americas-alan-grayson-wins-florida-primary

As Lincoln said 144 years ago:

worse than traitors in arms are the men who pretend loyalty to the flag, feast and fatten on the misfortunes of the Nation, while patriotic blood is crimsoning the plains. . . and their countrymen moldering the dust.

[NotNow]

 Re: Alan Grayson Fights for US!
« Reply #44 on: July 10, 2012, 01:27:39 AM »Quote Quote from: fsquid on July 07, 2012, 11:53:24 AM
And for all the lip service liberals pay to not taking food out of babies' mouths and the like, the actual programs they establish seem in most cases to be at least as effective at keeping the poor trapped in poverty as at helping them. Keep them dumb, poor, and voting democrat.

Incidentally this is the original post that I have been responding to, AKIRA, it was untrue and a bit stupid.

And your source for this statement? 

We have established beyond all shadow of a doubt that the actual programs do NOT, in most cases, keep the poor trapped in poverty.

In fact, we have proven just the opposite.  The only factual evidence presented established that the programs DO encourage such dependancy.

Rather we have learned the the leading majority of people who need the programs lift them self out, leaving behind a small minority which seems to stay in poverty.

These kinds of statements normally require evidence.  I have not seen your evidence that the current programs do any such thing on a permanent basis.  Could you define 'leading majority" or point us to the study that you are quoting?

Do you agree with the original poster?

I think all of the evidence points to a failure of the system to reduce poverty levels.  Isn't that obvious?

Or is it your intention to keep moving the goal posts until you can find some area of rhetoric where you can say "Aha!"  There really IS one person who was disabled by his inability to wean himself off of government macaroni and cheese!  Villain!"?

Only you have said any such thing.  Everyone here has readily agreed that a safety net is necessary and desirable.  We are only asking for vigilance and careful use of the taxpayers dollars.  In your desire to be argumentative, you have taken the curious position that the current welfare system has no flaws and is the best thing to happen to the poor since sliced bread.  Despite the REAL evidence that the massive "war against poverty" launched by President Johnson has failed miserably to "lift" any real percentage of people from poverty in the last fifty years.  Surely it is obvious to all that we must continue to search for methods to accomplish that goal.  To simply deny the truth is to be part of the problem.

If so, then you are relying on the human condition itself to make your argument for you.

There will always be a subset of people who are criminal fuckups whether the are receiving a government paycheck or stealing it from a government project.

And I assume that we agree that these people should be prosecuted, right?

I am infinitely comfortable with the perils and triumphs of the human condition, but I try to keep a sense of scale about things.  If a thousand kids get their share of chocolate ice cream at the expense of one fat bastard running through line four extra times, you have to compliment yourself on a thousand well done examples of moderate pleasure and bemoan the execrable excess of one cheater.

You don't claim that the eating of chocolate ice cream causes the greed of the fat kid and then cancel all ice cream for the rest of the summer.

Who has proposed cancelling any programs?  We have suggested stopping the fraud.  The CRIMINAL fraud.  And it is costing the taxpayers MUCH more than an ice cream cone.

That would make you an asshole.

What does misrepresenting what another poster says make you?

And thats with something that people clearly don't need in order to survive.

Imagine the magnitude greater it becomes when you are talking about basic food, shelter and health care.

Appeals to emotion have nothing to do with the points being made.

[NotNow]

Let me know when you can do what I have done...support your arguments with citations and facts.  Until then your just wasting electrons and our time.

[NotNow]

Cute...and you have STILL managed to avoid backing up your statements with facts.   

Just saying something over and over does not make a thing true.  Attempting to attack the other poster instead of addressing the argument...is just not a good tactic.  Wouldn't you agree?

[NotNow]

There will always be a subset of people who are criminal fuckups whether the are receiving a government paycheck or stealing it from a government project.

THAT is what always gets me...........the Republican propaganda of distraction.........pointing to the little fish while ignoring the bigger fish (government contractors and banks ripping off the tax payer) is hilarious. The inflated story of welfare queen and "dependency" is passed down from one self-righteous generation to the next.

As you said Stephen...........their fixed believes are merely to make themselves feel better:

The idea that you can reduce your view to groups of people to equate all of them with rats, dogs, cats or animals----"if you feed them, they will get used to it" is nauseating and pretty much takes away any notion of our shared humanity or our aspirations to something better, and focuses only on the human failings.

If you think people stay on "welfare" because it is "easier" then you have bought into a pretty big lie that exists to make you (and any of us in the middle to upper classes) feel smug and condescending.

Looking down on the little guy or gal is so much easier and makes one feel so much more superior than pointing to where the REAL rip-offs take place:

Widespread corporate welfare/rip-off benefiting private industry of all kinds.

http://www.youtube.com/v/izT-kQYkWzw?

Unfortunately the better ad showing pallets of shrink wrapped money bills being waste has been removed from youtube, but here is where they talk about that other hard hitting ad........
http://blueamerica.crooksandliars.com/2008/08/27/blue-americas-alan-grayson-wins-florida-primary

As Lincoln said 144 years ago:

worse than traitors in arms are the men who pretend loyalty to the flag, feast and fatten on the misfortunes of the Nation, while patriotic blood is crimsoning the plains. . . and their countrymen moldering the dust.

Faye,

I am for prosecuting ALL crime.  I won't advocate ignoring any theft of taxpayer funds whether it be from welfare funds or the defense department.  All I can do is quote the facts about the fraud problem in current programs.  I too am disappointed that no prosecutions have taken place for not only the defense contractor fraud that has taken place, but also the tax fraud, voter fraud, misuse of stimulus funds, and failure to investigate the ATF gun running cover up, among others.  Where has the justice department been?  Where has congress been?

[NotNow]

StephenDare!,

Your post tells us all we need to know about the validity of your arguments.  I'll skip the personal exchange that you seem to want and let the facts speak for themselves.

[NotNow]

At least one of us provided more than our own bloviation.