JTA to make skyway transit free

[jerry cornwell]

This is a really good move. I wonder what JTA's metrics are for judging if the trial is a success?

I know what mine are! Lets party on the SkyWay!  Yes!

[acme54321]

How about they build that Publix/Condo development in San Marco and put in an integrated skyway station!  Problem is that nobody wants to look at skyway tracks.

[Tacachale]

I'm cool with it being free, if only so that they're not spending more money the machines than they could make with them. I don't expect there will be a huge increase in ridership for the various reasons already stated.

[thelakelander]

How about they build that Publix/Condo development in San Marco and put in an integrated skyway station!  Problem is that nobody wants to look at skyway tracks.

Drop them down to ground level once the skyway extension crosses the FEC and there won't be elevated tracks.  However, this will require you to cross Atlantic on foot to access the proposed Publix site.

[KenFSU]

Wait a minute? The Skyway is losing over $7 million a year, much of it directly out of our tax dollars, and the solution is to let everyone ride for free? Give up on the $350,000 or so that you are actually taking in and just go ahead and subsidize that ourselves too? Even if ridership doubles (I suspect ridership numbers stay virtually the same), what does that accomplish if revenue goes down? I whole heartedly agree with everything Lake says about the potential benefits of a Skyway expansion, but realistically, with the terrible reputation and poor public opinion of the Skyway, I just don't see any situation in the next 10 years where the public is going to be ok with an expansion.

As a downtown advocate, I'm all for the Skyway, but as a taxpayer, this borders on indefensible.

[iMarvin]

Finally. If they just made the simple changes that have been suggested on this site at least 50 times, ridership would increase. A few extensions also make sense. One to 200 Riverside and one to San Marco.

[thelakelander]

Wait a minute? The Skyway is losing over $7 million a year, much of it directly out of our tax dollars, and the solution is to let everyone ride for free? Give up on the $350,000 or so that you are actually taking in and just go ahead and subsidize that ourselves too? Even if ridership doubles (I suspect ridership numbers stay virtually the same), what does that accomplish if revenue goes down? I whole heartedly agree with everything Lake says about the potential benefits of a Skyway expansion, but realistically, with the terrible reputation and poor public opinion of the Skyway, I just don't see any situation in the next 10 years where the public is going to be ok with an expansion.

As a downtown advocate, I'm all for the Skyway, but as a taxpayer, this borders on indefensible.

^You'll spend a lot more money replacing the fare collection system than the amount of revenue it generates in a year.  Also, the way the feds work, more riders equal more federal money for O&M.  Thus the $350k collected annually really gets them nowhere.  Perhaps, they should replace money lost by not charging fares by allowing train wrap advertising and leasing kiosk space at its overbuilt stations?  Btw, I don't think the skyway loses $7 million a year. 

[fieldafm]

Unless there is leftover money from the grant that paid for the STAR card system... where do you get the money to pay to replace the turnstile system that hasn't worked for years?

And the $7million figure isn't a cash loss(most of that is from depreciation expenses from the original cost of the system over 20 years ago). 

[KenFSU]

And the $7million figure isn't a cash loss(most of that is from depreciation expenses from the original cost of the system over 20 years ago).

It is my understanding that at least $5.5 million of that figure is operating loss, absent of depreciation.

I have no idea where the money to fix the turnstiles should come from, but didn't JTA just say less than two months ago that they were in the process of fixing all turnstiles?

Public transit often loses money, it's a fact of life, but unless there are plans to expand the Skyway, sell advertising space, allow vendors to operate at stations, beef up security, and/or eventually fix the turnstiles so that the JTA can actually bring in some revenue from the Skyway, it seems like they are just throwing their hands up in the air and giving up here.

What do you tell the bus riders -- those unfortunate Jacksonville citizens who depend on our awful bus system for their livelihood -- who recently faced increased fares? Maybe the bus turnstiles can break too. God forbid anyone plan ahead and figure out how to pay for them if they were to break as well.

It's a fundamental problem city wide. We build these wonderful things -- the Skyway, Friendship Fountain, LED Lighting on the Mainstreet Bridge -- and as soon as something goes wrong and they need maintenance, we just throw up our hands and give up on them.

[dougskiles]

I think they would seriously consider such an extension as long as it paralleled the FEC tracks, terminating at-grade at Atlantic Boulevard.  Such a corridor would place it within walking distance of San Marco Square and Hendricks Avenue.

That is exactly what should happen.  We (SMPS) are solidly behind this concept.

[JeffreyS]

It does not lose money if a community wants transit they spend money providing transit. Transit is provided just like police security, roads, trash pickup ect. ect.  The difference is transit often provides mitigation with some of it's operating costs in terms of  a fare box.  The fare box is used by some to try to convince people it is a for profit venture and therefor somehow it's success or failure is based on fares collected.  Removing the fare is a great idea because it removes that dofus argument about whether or not transit "makes money" or worse "pays for itself".  The Pays for itself argument is worse because they intentionally leave out every benefit of this service except fares collected to make the argument even though fares collected is never the reason people institute transit.

[fsujax]

I think all transit should be free. It is a public service. The farebox recovery issue is a joke, no system recovers all their expenses at the farebox. LIRR is the closest that comes to doing it in the States. I also believe the JTA should allow the skyways cars to be wrapped and they should lease out space at the stations for  vendors and also allow the open display of local art at all the stations. I also agree the San Marco extension makes the most sense.

[jerry cornwell]

As a downtown advocate, I'm all for the Skyway, but as a taxpayer, this borders on indefensible.

You are right on both accounts so i hope, as a downtown advocate, you would choose the latter.
Especially since its free.
You make strong points in your last post.

[Bativac]

It's a fundamental problem city wide. We build these wonderful things -- the Skyway, Friendship Fountain, LED Lighting on the Mainstreet Bridge -- and as soon as something goes wrong and they need maintenance, we just throw up our hands and give up on them.

This is ABSOLUTELY one of Jacksonville's biggest problems - maintaining the stuff once it's installed. The response is always "there's not enough money." I shudder to think of what condition the beautifully redone Friendship Park will be in, ten years from now. Not to mention the Southbank Riverwalk.

It really sounds like JTA has given up on trying to fix the Skyway or keep people from jumping the turnstiles. I'm glad to see it - my wife and I take it over the bridge whenever we have any spare change, or whenever we feel brave enough to jump the gate - so now we won't feel guilty.

But it's not like we ever fight crowds to board the thing. What about making it 24 hours? Or at least expand the hours to later in the evening and weekends? Or is that too much money and I'm talking crazy talk?

[Tacachale]

Part of that problem is agencies (and even certain mayors) burning through the reserves and maintenance budgets that were in place. As much as we complain we're far too tolerant of people who can't manage a budget.