Illegal Immigrants Paid $11.2 Billion In Taxes While GE Paid $0

[NotNow]

StephenDare!, I would still like to see your source for your claims denying that about 50% of citizens pay no income tax. 

Also, the statement "Retirement funds are non taxable", is just not true.  MOST retirement income is taxable.  Since the income tax is collected largely on a "household" basis, it would seem to be a logical measure.  Thus, children are not included in the 50% claim. 

And the income tax on Social Security benefits was established under the Reagan administration, but increased under the Clinton administration.

[NotNow]

Faye, I'm sure that the point of the thread is to show someone that illegal immigrants actually DO pay some taxes.  But the cost of illegal immigration FAR outreaches any such collection of taxes (which, remember, is an ESTIMATE of some group).

Just google "cost of illegal immigration".

[NotNow]

StephenDare!, I would still like to see your source for your claims denying that about 50% of citizens pay no income tax. 

Also, the statement "Retirement funds are non taxable", is just not true.  MOST retirement income is taxable.  Since the income tax is collected largely on a "household" basis, it would seem to be a logical measure.  Thus, children are not included in the 50% claim. 

And the income tax on Social Security benefits was established under the Reagan administration, but increased under the Clinton administration.

Your tactic of rearguing every argument youve already lost is something that you can peddle elsewhere not now.   If you can disprove these facts, then please do.  Ive already posted links and argued elsewhere about this pernicious lie and I have no idea what interest you would have in continuing to perpetuate a bold lie yourself.

A fancy way of saying "I just made that up".

I quoted "politifacts", which you said was wrong.  Another poster quoted a well known tax policy site, which you said was wrong.   Your the one making claims.  Your claims are simply wrong.  I really don't see where having a little snit helps your case either. 

It's not about "winning" or "losing" StephenDare!, it's about getting the facts straight.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             

[second_pancake]

StephenDare!, I would still like to see your source for your claims denying that about 50% of citizens pay no income tax. 

Also, the statement "Retirement funds are non taxable", is just not true.  MOST retirement income is taxable.  Since the income tax is collected largely on a "household" basis, it would seem to be a logical measure.  Thus, children are not included in the 50% claim. 

And the income tax on Social Security benefits was established under the Reagan administration, but increased under the Clinton administration.

I haven't read in this topic where he said that yet, but if you look at the link he posted in another topic (Why the Greedy Capitalists...) he shows just the opposite, that indeed almost 40% of Americans do not net payment of taxes.  Let me find the link he posted...

http://dmarron.com/2011/07/27/why-do-half-of-americans-pay-no-federal-income-tax/

So, after reading this (which is just a person's blog, but he does source some of the info), you'll see what your encountering is semantics or splitting-of-hairs.  While most of us know that you mean INCOME taxes when you reference "taxes", which is what is also meant by the title of this topic when references the illegal immigrants, "taxes" could also mean sales, property, etc. Lol.  Yes, almost 50% of income-receivers in America (legal or illegal) NET $0 or -$0 (meaning they get more than they paid in) in INCOME taxes for various numbers of reasons.

[second_pancake]

When looking at articles like this it's important to remember that when it's being reporting "taxes paid" most often they are not taking into account the 100% refund of the taxes the lower income folks receive which makes their total tax contribution net $0.

Hmmm, I totally question your math!

Lets see......

Illegal immigrants paid $11.2 billion in taxes last year.

$1.2 billion in personal income taxes might be refundable if they were low-income........but not all of them are. I knew some northern european people who overstayed their tourist visum and worked in the US, but never got any refund because they weren't low income.

So let's say that $1 billion is refunded..........that still leaves them providing $10.2 to state and federal government revenues, when corporations are a net drain with their massive corporate wel-fare intake.

I always have to laugh at people claiming that the poor don't pay any taxes............as you can see from the above.........more than 90% of taxes paid are of the non-income tax versions like sales tax and property taxes, car registrations etc.

The article is talking about income taxes and that is my reference, INCOME, not sales, not property, not luxury tax, INCOME.

[second_pancake]

When looking at articles like this it's important to remember that when it's being reporting "taxes paid" most often they are not taking into account the 100% refund of the taxes the lower income folks receive which makes their total tax contribution net $0.  That having been said, I agree the loopholes need to be closed, however they need to be closed across the board to ensure everyone is paying into the system. It's ridiculous that we have people paying into a system that they will not be able to receive benefit from while there are American citizens who literally pay nothing and are still entitled to receive.

Like Wall Street.  I agree, second pancake.  Its disgusting.  A couple a trillion for the non tax payers, meanwhile the working middle class is being told that all that money that they paid into social security is better spent on other things.

Don't twist my words.  Corporations are owned by people, those people, pay into the income tax system including FDIC and are entitled to receive those benefits provided they are not illegals, upon their retirement age being met, or sooner if they choose to utilize the earlier retirement option. Corporations, the entity, do not pay into the SS system nor do they receive SS benefits.  It can not, it is not a singular being.  While it has a federal tax id number, it does not have a SSN.  The tax id number is used to account for BUSINESS related taxes.

[second_pancake]

Ok, folks, let's take income taxes out of this equation.  Let's focus on sales tax and property tax.  What would you say is the average cost of home a "poor" person would own?  We'll use Jacksonville since we all know you can own a million dollar home in CA and it's still a 1-room shack.  In regard to sales tax, where do "poor" people shop?  Do they go to the high-price boutiques?  How about Macy's?  Do you think they shop there?  How much (quantity) goods do you think the average "poor" person purchases in any given month?  Do you think they spend $2000 a month in clothing and other taxable goods(remember, food is non-taxable in most states)?  How about $3000?  Now, ask those same questions of someone who makes over $500k a year and has a good amount of disposable income.  I'm not saying that "poor" people don't pay taxes, Faye.  Clearly taxes get paid and clearly its a good amount.  Yes, there are corporate breaks as well, however if we're going to talk about one aspect, we need to talk about all of them.  Speaking in percentages, what we need to see is the full picture.  If in America, illegal immigrants accounted for $11.2billion in state and local taxes, what is the percentage of LEGAL and from that percentage, how many were in the so-called 99% (under the $900k per year mark?), how many were earning more than $200k (the apparant benchmark for a "rich" person) but are not the 1%?  How many of them were in the 99%?  From all those categories, what was the average amount that each group paid into state and local taxes?  How much was income tax?  How much was sales tax?  So on and so forth...

[second_pancake]

When looking at articles like this it's important to remember that when it's being reporting "taxes paid" most often they are not taking into account the 100% refund of the taxes the lower income folks receive which makes their total tax contribution net $0.  That having been said, I agree the loopholes need to be closed, however they need to be closed across the board to ensure everyone is paying into the system. It's ridiculous that we have people paying into a system that they will not be able to receive benefit from while there are American citizens who literally pay nothing and are still entitled to receive.

Like Wall Street.  I agree, second pancake.  Its disgusting.  A couple a trillion for the non tax payers, meanwhile the working middle class is being told that all that money that they paid into social security is better spent on other things.

Don't twist my words.  Corporations are owned by people, those people, pay into the income tax system including FDIC and are entitled to receive those benefits provided they are not illegals, upon their retirement age being met, or sooner if they choose to utilize the earlier retirement option. Corporations, the entity, do not pay into the SS system nor do they receive SS benefits.  It can not, it is not a singular being.  While it has a federal tax id number, it does not have a SSN.  The tax id number is used to account for BUSINESS related taxes.

So some people are just more equal than others, right?

Corporations pay no taxes and therefore deserve to get bailed out, and undocumented workers pay taxes and therefore deserve to get nothing in return, even though their work generates billions of dollars in profits for the agricultural and food industry, all of which is also taxed on the local levels.

I see how it works now.

Sounds like the kind of system that would eventually become popular enough to last forever, my friend.  Or maybe just a Thousand Years.

Twisting my words again, Stephen.  I did not make any statement about corporations getting bailed out one way or the other.  I stated a fact:  Corporations are owned by people, they are not a person and can not collect SS.  Period.  If you remember my comments in other topics on this forum, I have been very consistent in stating that I do not believe the bailout should've occured...for any company, banks or otherwise.  I also made it, so I thought, VERY clear on this topic, in my very first post, that it is "unfair" for the illegals to have to be forced to pay into a system for which they are not allowed and can not collect any benefit.

[second_pancake]

Ok, folks, let's take income taxes out of this equation.  Let's focus on sales tax and property tax.  What would you say is the average cost of home a "poor" person would own?  We'll use Jacksonville since we all know you can own a million dollar home in CA and it's still a 1-room shack.  In regard to sales tax, where do "poor" people shop?  Do they go to the high-price boutiques?  How about Macy's?  Do you think they shop there?  How much (quantity) goods do you think the average "poor" person purchases in any given month?  Do you think they spend $2000 a month in clothing and other taxable goods(remember, food is non-taxable in most states)?  How about $3000?  Now, ask those same questions of someone who makes over $500k a year and has a good amount of disposable income.  I'm not saying that "poor" people don't pay taxes, Faye.  Clearly taxes get paid and clearly its a good amount.  Yes, there are corporate breaks as well, however if we're going to talk about one aspect, we need to talk about all of them.  Speaking in percentages, what we need to see is the full picture.  If in America, illegal immigrants accounted for $11.2billion in state and local taxes, what is the percentage of LEGAL and from that percentage, how many were in the so-called 99% (under the $900k per year mark?), how many were earning more than $200k (the apparant benchmark for a "rich" person) but are not the 1%?  How many of them were in the 99%?  From all those categories, what was the average amount that each group paid into state and local taxes?  How much was income tax?  How much was sales tax?  So on and so forth...

This is amongst the most bizarre things youve posted yet.

Are you telling us that 11 billion dollars in taxes is better when its paid by rich people?

Or that it spends less when it is paid by 'poor' people?

Dude, how would you tell, looking at a hundred dollar bill who all had handled it?

Where on earth are you going with this drivel?

You really do just argue for the sake of arguing, don't you?  No, Stephen, I get paid to analyze things and that's exactly what I'm doing.  You can't pull numbers for one group and not for the others and claim that as the only basis of measurement.  It doesn't work that way.  I'm saying that the statement, "Illegal immigrants paid $11.2 billion in taxes" has no meaning if have nothing to compare it to.  That's like saying, "StephenDare owns a waterfront home."  In FL, people would automatically assume you have a nice house on the river, ICW, or ocean.  In reality, you could own a shack on a large wastewater facility.  Or how about, "StephenDare paid $1.2m for a home in Jacksonville last year."  WOW!  That would be fantastic, right?  No.  The housing crisis hit Jacksonville in 2006 and values have been steadily decreasing.  Depending on where that house was located, you could have overpaid by more than 1/2 and that property could have a value of only $400k so paying more than a million would just make you a fool.  Do you see where I'm going now?