Port Expansion or Medical School?

[Tacachale]

^My point is that Jacksonville is a medical hub even without a medical school here. Shands Jax is major part of  UF-Shands, and one of the top trauma centers in this part of the country. The importance and profile of Mayo can't be underestimated. Despite not having a dedicated med school we still have one of the state's biggest clusters of educational hospitals (UF-Shands, Mayo, St. Lukes, Nemours) that attract and rotate new doctors all the time. UNF's college of health continues to grow and expand its profile even in spite of state budget cuts. And all of these assets complement each other. Again, besides the Miami area, no other part of the state compares.

A solid medical school would further complement (and benefit from) all of these assets, and also drive the biotech industry, which is already well established here. Attracting one shouldn't be a matter of if, but of when and how.

And that's really what this poll is for, right? What are the priorities. My vote is for port and (clearly) med school.

[Tacachale]

Honestly I don't think this poll is laid out the best. I think a med school should be a priority, but I don't think it should or would take $100 million necessarily. And I want the streetcar to happen, but I don't want to pay for it out of pocket. If it said "med school up to $100 mill" and "making sure the mobility plan is stuck to so $100 million is raised through the fee", it would be a tighter race for me.

[simms3]

Can you name me one biotech company with operations in Jacksonville?

Of the top 5 largest biotech firms in the USA, 3 are in the Bay Area and 2 are in Boston.  That trend continues pretty far down the list, and then you get more variety, but definite "hubs".  I don't think Jacksonville has any sort of biotech industry whatsoever.  Mayo does pretty good research on Alzheimer's in Jacksonville, and maybe a couple other things, but you don't hear of any breakthroughs in Pharma, Genetics, Biology, Engineering, Surgery, or any other sort of research or care coming out of Jacksonville.

Please quit deluding yourself.  Jacksonville has great medical facilities, which are an asset to the region and to residents, and these assets are taken into consideration on potential expansions or moves by corporations and residents.  That does not make Jacksonville a major healthcare/biotech hub.  If we had one of the top 10 or 20 hospitals in the country and/or one of the top med-schools and/or some sort of concentration of biotech companies and ensuing venture capital, I would be singing a different tune.  There is no venture capital in Jacksonville, not even a penny.  There are no biotech or related firms in Jacksonville.  There are on average decent hospitals with reputable programs (like the heart program at St. Vincent's, which believe it or not is not even top 30 in the country) and a branch of a great research hospital, but we have nothing major.

Where I live, our hospitals are on average smaller and aren't super highly ranked.  Piedmont and Northside and St. Joseph's are all about on the same league as St. Vincent's, Baptist, and Memorial.  Shands is much smaller but perhaps better performing than Grady (up here).  However, Atlanta is the hub of all venture capital in the south, and aggregate FL, TX, and every other state and it still does not equal the venture capital being generated here.  Then take Georgia Tech's # 2 Bio-engineering program and combine it with Emory's medical program (they are a collaborative program between both campuses) and you have something going.  Combine that with Emory University Hospital system, the CDC, American Cancer Society, and you start to have something.

There are 16 categories for ranking hospitals.  UF-Shands Gainesville made the top 30 list 3 times.  Florida Hospital once.  Tampa General once.  An ophthamology center in Miami once.  Another hospital or two in Miami once.  Cleveland Clinic Florida once.  Emory University Hospital 6 times.  Two other hospitals in Atlanta, once.  Stuff in Jacksonville, not at all.  Then, one starts to realize the same hospitals in the same cities dominate the top 10 list in every category...your usual suspects: Mass Gen, Sloan Kettering, Ronald Reagan UCLA, Duke, Barnes Jewish in St. Louis, Univ. Pittsburgh Hospital, Johns Hopkins, etc.

Hate to break the news and potentially squash the myth that Jacksonville is some huge healthcare and biotech center, if even just for the region.  It is not and we had an opportunity once and we somehow blew it, so that opportunity went to everywhere else in Florida.

I do reiterate.  We can do a streetcar, and whether or not it would be successful, it would signal to companies and real estate firms and young professionals that we are headed in the right direction.

We do have a competitive advantage on logistics, warehousing, and distribution.  Our port and our geographical position are not something other cities can work on attaining because they come with the territory.

[Tacachale]

No one argues that Jacksonville is a medical hub the caliber of the Bay Area or Boston. But despite what you seem to think, Jacksonville is a medical hub for the region (and by region I mean everywhere between Atlanta and Miami) for the reasons I gave. And there is indeed a biotech presence here. Two firms I can name off the top of my head are Vistakon and the company that makes NovaBone; Medtronic also has a strong presence here.

Additionally, every one of those places you name have one or more medical schools already. For some of them, these schools are the primary driver of the medical industry there. Jacksonville remains a hub despite not having a dedicated med school. Add one to the mix, and we're in an even stronger position. But even if we had no medical development here, it would still be worth pursuing a med school, because we're the second largest city in the country without one. Even in such a vacuum (which we're not), it's pretty silly to claim that a med school would not be a substantial driver for economic development.

[simms3]

Believe me, those are not really biotech examples (which leads me to believe you have a slighly fuzzy definition) and you meant to say PSS World Medical, which is a Fortune 1000 company and smaller competitor to Medtronic.  It is not an innovator or tech firm in any way.  It is a medical device and pharmaceutical distributor, but it does not make anything.  It has dozens of distribution centers and break-freight centers across the country, and maintains a relatively small office in Jacksonville (it does not need a large block of space or trophy tower).

Also, we are already the medical hub for SE GA and NE FL.  We have nothing Orlando, Tampa, and Birmingham don't have (and they have more research, more tech firms, more biotech firms, and more invested VC money than Jacksonville actually).  To be the medical hub for the immediate region means absolutely nothing, especially when that region has a mere 2 million people.  I'm thinking on a much larger scale.  Having something some other city can only dream of.  Being an industry leader in some sort of category that puts the city on a map and allows the city to enter dialogue between politicians and the national/international business community.

Sinapsis Pharma is the only biotech firm with an office in Jacksonville (based in Jax), but it conducts its research at the University of Miami.  If Jacksonville were the healthcare hub you say it is, it would conduct its research here in conjunction with UF at Shands, or even at Mayo Clinic.  UF's presence at Shands in Jacksonville is more primary care related and does not involve "research."  99% of all Mayo Clinic conducted research occurs in Rochester, MN, and Jacksonville and Scottsdale are merely support branches if you will.

The leaders of anything substantial involving biotech, tech, and venture capital in the south are located in Atlanta, Houston, Raleigh-Durham, and Austin.  Nearly every VC fund based in the south is based in Atlanta and then funneled out from here (much of it also stays here).  Nothing in the world is quite like Texas Medical Center.  Nothing in the world is quite like Research Triangle Park.  Austin actually competes with Palo Alto and Menlo Park in software and computer/internet related tech whereas no other city really can.

Jacksonville is a smaller blue collar town with a noted deficiency in educational attainment and a small thinking, non-creative mentality amongst business and political leaders.  It will never be any sort of hub for anything that requires billions of dollars in funding a year and a large pool of Masters students and PhDs.  It is a military town.  A conservative town.  A family town.  A religious town.  All of these have severe potential to impede the ability for the city to be a center of innovation and enlightenment, but all of these work perfectly for our ability to be an industrial town with a mega port.

Cargo volume across the world is growing at a faster rate than the rate at which more people around the world buy cars.  That makes sense when you figure cars are also a containerized shipment when exported.  Two things rising as fast in importance for economic development as tech are the rise of the aerotropolis as more trade is conducted by air, and the rise of ports as more trade is conducted by sea.  They may not be as glorious as having the CDC in your city or GlaxoSmithKline's headquarters or a Facebook office, but they are larger job producers and along with financial markets are the engines that allow economies to grow.

If this is not a good enough argument for Jacksonville to abandon hopes of becoming some sort of hub for tech/biotech/healthcare, then I don't know what is.  If you have lived outside of Jacksonville before, this all becomes very easy to see.  If you have only lived in Jacksonville, you're blinded by naivety.

[thelakelander]

Jacksonville is a smaller blue collar town with a noted deficiency in educational attainment and a small thinking, non-creative mentality amongst business and political leaders.  It will never be any sort of hub for anything that requires billions of dollars in funding a year and a large pool of Masters students and PhDs.  It is a military town.  A conservative town.  A family town.  A religious town.  All of these have severe potential to impede the ability for the city to be a center of innovation and enlightenment, but all of these work perfectly for our ability to be an industrial town with a mega port.

So if we're lucky, we can grow up to become a Norfolk or San Diego!

[Ralph W]

We might be a partial military town, having lost Cecil Field and begging for a nuke carrier.

To steal a military phrase: "Be All You Can Be", whatever that means.

[Ralph W]

Adding: How can we even think we could attract a Medical school when there is infighting just to see who gets to have a piece of the pie in the form of a Trauma Center.

[Tacachale]

Believe me, those are not really biotech examples (which leads me to believe you have a slighly fuzzy definition) and you meant to say PSS World Medical, which is a Fortune 1000 company and smaller competitor to Medtronic.  It is not an innovator or tech firm in any way.  It is a medical device and pharmaceutical distributor, but it does not make anything.  It has dozens of distribution centers and break-freight centers across the country, and maintains a relatively small office in Jacksonville (it does not need a large block of space or trophy tower).

Also, we are already the medical hub for SE GA and NE FL.  We have nothing Orlando, Tampa, and Birmingham don't have (and they have more research, more tech firms, more biotech firms, and more invested VC money than Jacksonville actually).  To be the medical hub for the immediate region means absolutely nothing, especially when that region has a mere 2 million people.  I'm thinking on a much larger scale.  Having something some other city can only dream of.  Being an industry leader in some sort of category that puts the city on a map and allows the city to enter dialogue between politicians and the national/international business community.

Sinapsis Pharma is the only biotech firm with an office in Jacksonville (based in Jax), but it conducts its research at the University of Miami.  If Jacksonville were the healthcare hub you say it is, it would conduct its research here in conjunction with UF at Shands, or even at Mayo Clinic.  UF's presence at Shands in Jacksonville is more primary care related and does not involve "research."  99% of all Mayo Clinic conducted research occurs in Rochester, MN, and Jacksonville and Scottsdale are merely support branches if you will.

The leaders of anything substantial involving biotech, tech, and venture capital in the south are located in Atlanta, Houston, Raleigh-Durham, and Austin.  Nearly every VC fund based in the south is based in Atlanta and then funneled out from here (much of it also stays here).  Nothing in the world is quite like Texas Medical Center.  Nothing in the world is quite like Research Triangle Park.  Austin actually competes with Palo Alto and Menlo Park in software and computer/internet related tech whereas no other city really can.

Jacksonville is a smaller blue collar town with a noted deficiency in educational attainment and a small thinking, non-creative mentality amongst business and political leaders.  It will never be any sort of hub for anything that requires billions of dollars in funding a year and a large pool of Masters students and PhDs.  It is a military town.  A conservative town.  A family town.  A religious town.  All of these have severe potential to impede the ability for the city to be a center of innovation and enlightenment, but all of these work perfectly for our ability to be an industrial town with a mega port.

Cargo volume across the world is growing at a faster rate than the rate at which more people around the world buy cars.  That makes sense when you figure cars are also a containerized shipment when exported.  Two things rising as fast in importance for economic development as tech are the rise of the aerotropolis as more trade is conducted by air, and the rise of ports as more trade is conducted by sea.  They may not be as glorious as having the CDC in your city or GlaxoSmithKline's headquarters or a Facebook office, but they are larger job producers and along with financial markets are the engines that allow economies to grow.

If this is not a good enough argument for Jacksonville to abandon hopes of becoming some sort of hub for tech/biotech/healthcare, then I don't know what is.  If you have lived outside of Jacksonville before, this all becomes very easy to see.  If you have only lived in Jacksonville, you're blinded by naivety.

Well, you've made it clear that you have convinced yourself of this, which is fine I suppose. I still don't see any real case for a medical school not being worth it in and of itself, as it would be a driver of economic development even if Jacksonville's medical industry really were as backward as you have convinced yourself it is. Again, all of the places you have named (minus Austin) are places that have one already.

[tufsu1]

really folks...you want a mobility fee moratirium (11 votes)?

fact is it isn't as simple as this poll would lead you to believe....the $800 million for the port would likely come from federal, state, local, and private dollars....$100 million for streetcar would likely be federal, state, and local....$100 million for a medical school would likey be all local....fact is the state isn't likely to support another public medical school at this time (or a major expansion of UF/Shands) and I'm not sure where a private medical school would come from at this time.

[tufsu1]

I love the Medical school idea but after Florida State wanted theirs here and we sent it to Daytona, good luck.

FSU's med school isn't in Daytona....its in Tally...Daytona is one of about 10 locations around the state where students can get real world practice

[tufsu1]

Adding: How can we even think we could attract a Medical school when there is infighting just to see who gets to have a piece of the pie in the form of a Trauma Center.

this is normal behavior in the industry....new/expanded hospitals are often challenged by existing facilities

[iMarvin]

really folks...you want a mobility fee moratirium (11 votes)?

Lol. The LRT/Streetcar has 11 votes (now 12 since I voted). No one voted for the moratorium yet.

[tufsu1]

oops...guess my reading skills are a bit messed up today...it is kind of hard when fasting for the last 21 hours