Jacksonville Landing Says Garage Not Enough

[thelakelander]

Simple. River City Marketplace.

[fieldafm]

And it certainly doesn't say that the city owes the landing $3.5 million for a surface lot PLUS $1.9 million to subsidize temporary parking.

The city is obligated for a parking validation program... but you will get no argument from me that the amended deal that included short term parking is what killed the deal and was frankly unecessary.  I can see WHY that would have been beneficial for the investors, but that doesn't mean I agree with that portion of the deal.

IMO, going back to the original deal to acquire the surface lot for dedicated Landing parking is the best deal for everyone involved.  This newest deal to bring a parking garage, with money that was supposed to go towards settling the Landing issue once and for all, is the absolute WORST deal for everyone involved.  It's probably the worst deal done downtown since the Shipyards.

It doesn't appear likely though that this parking garage deal is going away.  It is time for the Mayor and Council to lead on this issue, and frankly they are doing the opposite right now.

[ChriswUfGator]

1) Let's say Old Man Willie owed both you and your grandpa 50k each.  Gramps dies.  Does that mean OMW doesnt owe you the 50k anymore unless grandpa rises from the dead?

Well, naturally, according to Tufsu, the whole debt was wiped out when Old Man Willie's heirs gave what supposed to be your $50k to someone else. Since technically they paid the money, even though it wasn't to you, it's all good, right? Even though it didn't go to the intended place, must less satisfy the intended obligation, the money was still given...to someone...so it must be OK! Makes total sense.

[fieldafm]

Since technically they paid the money, even though it wasn't to you, it's all good, right?

Right, not only is Old Man Willie not giving you your half... he is giving your half of this money to your next door neighbor. 

Once you take out the words 'Jacksonville Landing' and 'Toney Sleiman'... the reality of what is happening becomes much more asinine.

So, again when are we going to stop playing politics(b/c let's face it, if Ben Carter owned the Landing no one would be so galvanized against this parking deal) and do what is right for our city?

[Tacachale]

And it certainly doesn't say that the city owes the landing $3.5 million for a surface lot PLUS $1.9 million to subsidize temporary parking.

The city is obligated for a parking validation program... but you will get no argument from me that the amended deal that included short term parking is what killed the deal and was frankly unecessary.  I can see WHY that would have been beneficial for the investors, but that doesn't mean I agree with that portion of the deal.

IMO, going back to the original deal to acquire the surface lot for dedicated Landing parking is the best deal for everyone involved.  This newest deal to bring a parking garage, with money that was supposed to go towards settling the Landing issue once and for all, is the absolute WORST deal for everyone involved.  It's probably the worst deal done downtown since the Shipyards.

It doesn't appear likely though that this parking garage deal is going away.  It is time for the Mayor and Council to lead on this issue, and frankly they are doing the opposite right now.

I agree that starting over with the original deal would be better than the two sides going back and forth as they are now. But it does seems that buying a surface lot and working out validation could be done for less than $3.5 million or $5.4 (or whatever the total would be) of the city's money, considering that $3.5 million was supposed to pay for most of a garage to be built on an equivalent lot.

[fieldafm]

considering that $3.5 million was supposed to pay for most of a garage to be built on an equivalent lot.

$3.5 million would not build that garage.  Parking garages are extremely expensive to build.  That money would simply offset some of the cost.

The best option would be to go back to the original deal.  Unless the Mayor's office or Council steps up... that isn't going to happen.  Right now they are all falling in line with this parking garage fiasco. 

[fieldafm]

Lake, do you have more pictures of LA Live?  This would be a good example of clustering as it relates to the Landing, the Hyatt and a potential new convention center. 

LA Live is part of a larger complex that includes and entertainment center, the Staples Center, a large Marriot and Ritz Carlton and finally the convention center.

There are three parking garages and 10 surface lots just dedicated to this complex.  There are also over a dozen private lots surrounding the complex... but the fact that they have TONS of dedicated parking is what makes this complex works.  AND they have rail stations as well.

[ChriswUfGator]

considering that $3.5 million was supposed to pay for most of a garage to be built on an equivalent lot.

$3.5 million would not build that garage.  Parking garages are extremely expensive to build.  That money would simply offset some of the cost.

The best option would be to go back to the original deal.  Unless the Mayor's office or Council steps up... that isn't going to happen.  Right now they are all falling in line with this parking garage fiasco. 

Well, it's not just the money, it's also the vacant lot, which COJ agreed originally to allocate for the Landing garage. Now, apparently, they're going to move forward with constructing a competing garage there instead, in which the Landing will have no dedicated parking. Ridiculous. I mean, really, it's kind of a slap in the face given the original promise. Sleiman is getting screwed.

[thelakelander]

Here some pics of LA Live.

[comncense]

I love LA Live. I was there last year for a design conference. I'm not sure how the parking situation is over there, since I used the parking garage at the adjacent hotel that I was staying at. Between the restaurants, The Congo Room, Lucky Strike and the events held at the Nokia Theater there, it's definitely a nice setup. It would be nice if the Landing could emulate it on a smaller level. Maybe ditch the retail and just go for dining, entertainment and other niche shops.

[barber]

Maybe going in a less constructive direction, and being a noob perhaps these are points raised in previous DT threads I've not seen, but decisions made by Sleiman Enterprises have certainly not helped The Landing, or the merchants. 

Charging a five to ten dollar cover simply to walk around the Landing during events like FL/GA.  Especially when you can keep your partying dollar closer to the stadium for free.

In addition, the only outside alcohol sales permitted during events were his own.  Where before the restaurants could work the breezeways and courtyard, now Sleiman was gobbling up that business with his own shooter girls and beer sales.

Merchants are told nearly anything to keep them from leaving.  Every week its "Insert big chain is on the other line right now, we're hammering out details for this or that impossibility." 

There are four businesses hanging on for dear life upstairs.  Four.

The company contracted to handle the parking lot is awful.  Aside from the rates, there is NEVER a live person in case customer service is required.  And of course there's no validation program.  Even the previous validation program was confusing and frustrating to customers.  And as I recall, merchants and restaurants HAD TO PAY to even participate in the program.  Maybe that's typical?

How many times has he given rental space to a friend and then that business went bust, further souring the image of The Landing?  Club Paris, the sub place downstairs, there's at least one other I can't recall right now.

There are a dozen little subtle things Sleiman Enterprises has done to bring burb money in while shunning inner city money.  The problem with burb money is that its not as reliable, based purely on distance.  Plus, that money goes back home at some point.

The maintenance on the property is abysmal.  The hallways are too dark, which isn't helped by the empty storefronts and yes, there is often a strange odor.  This would be the outdated trash compactor systems.

The hours also need to be expanded.  How can the merchants succeed when the lease requires they close at eight, nine on the weekends, but the foot traffic doesn't pick up until after that, when the clubs open?

While the Landing may be owed additional parking, it won't be the save that Sleiman promises restaurants and merchants it will be.  On a normal day the current parking lot has less than a dozen cars, usually less than half a dozen. 

[comncense]

It definitely seems that you have an insider's perspective about the going-on's with the Landing. I wouldn't have guessed half of those things were going on, especially preventing businesses from selling alcohol outside during events. I'm sure that would frustrate bar owners. I wonder if that was an issue for Twisted Martini since their property opened out towards the courtyard.  ...It would be nice to see something finally go back into that space.

[fieldafm]

Charging a five to ten dollar cover simply to walk around the Landing during events like FL/GA

That's the only event in which that happens(it's a crowd control measure, the schools have SPECIFCALLY asked for such measures to be put in place), and the majority of that money gets donated to charity.  Hardly something that is taking place to ripoff people.

There are four businesses hanging on for dear life upstairs.  Four.

No one is arguing that.  A shrinking downtown working population and over a year's worth of road construction certainly doesn't help.  Just ask any of the merchants that participated in business disruption when there is a massive road maintenance project going on around town, and then double that timeline.  Pretty hard to take for any small business that relies on constant cashflow to keep a business open.

And as I recall, merchants and restaurants HAD TO PAY to even participate in the program.  Maybe that's typical?

That's the way validation programs work.

How many times has he given rental space to a friend and then that business went bust, further souring the image of The Landing?  Club Paris

You're painting an ENTIRELY broad stroke of friendship with that comment, lol.  Those two were not friends. 

The hours also need to be expanded.  How can the merchants succeed when the lease requires they close at eight, nine on the weekends

What mall do you know where retailers are able to open past 9pm??

Despite all that... two new large establishments are opening this month(the old tavern space and the old Twisted Martini space), three new retailers have opened in the last two months and the outside is about to get a makeover as part of DVI's Laura Street Facade Grant.

Maybe you should put that old axe you have to grind back in the shed and move on with life?

[fieldafm]

It definitely seems that you have an insider's perspective about the going-on's with the Landing. I wouldn't have guessed half of those things were going on, especially preventing businesses from selling alcohol outside during events. I'm sure that would frustrate bar owners. I wonder if that was an issue for Twisted Martini since their property opened out towards the courtyard.  ...It would be nice to see something finally go back into that space.

The old Twisted space will be opening up as a new bar in time for FL/GA. 

[comncense]

It definitely seems that you have an insider's perspective about the going-on's with the Landing. I wouldn't have guessed half of those things were going on, especially preventing businesses from selling alcohol outside during events. I'm sure that would frustrate bar owners. I wonder if that was an issue for Twisted Martini since their property opened out towards the courtyard.  ...It would be nice to see something finally go back into that space.

The old Twisted space will be opening up as a new bar in time for FL/GA. 

Cool, glad to hear that Fieldafm. I really don't even care what kind of bar it is, it's just nice to know that space will be used since it's such a prime location. Has Fionn McCool's opened yet or are they shooting for FL/GA weekend as well?