Abel Harding Departs Mayors Office

[duvaldude08]

Abel will be fine. It will be over before he knows it. You could not have told me that back when I got mine in February. Just learn from it and dont do it again Abe!

[ChriswUfGator]

Field Sobriety tests are a joke.  Uneven pavement, dis-orientation from the flashing strobes, anxiety from the situation in general, etc....  Sure, they can be damning if you're stumbling all over the place and mush-mouthing your words, but if you're reasonably sober (take that for what it's worth) then they are completely inconclusive.

The real key is did he blow.  (No, I'm not talking about the cop)  If he refuses to blow, he's automatically hauled in to jail and his license is suspended until after his trial and most of these cases are reduced to a lesser charge and he avoids a DUI.  It's still about $1,500 and some community service / alcohol classes

If he blew and registered over the limit - he's pretty much screwed and has to pony up for a Real attorney.

They charged him with a refusal, most of the time that means he did not blow. Sometimes the guy blows but they don't get the reading they want, so they demand he do additional tests and eventually after 2 or 3 tests the person figures out what's happening and says he's done. At which point they'll attach the intoxalyzer printouts as evidence and still charge him with refusal. That always seems especially unfair.

Unfortunately he did do the exercises, that's enough to obtain a conviction by itself depending on how bad the video is.

[duvaldude08]

Thing is. Even if you blow UNDER the limit, they will still try to charge with a DUI. Happened to a co worker of mine. She was able to get the charge reduced in that situation. However, I blew over so I was screwed. LOL

If he refused to blow that was dumb. but most people THINK that your better off not blowing. If refuse, you still get charged and your license is suspended for one year versus six months. Wasnt a wise move. Guy next to me in court dreded not blowing.

[Ocklawaha]

301 Solution... Mayor Brown, the track is in place from Gainesville to Jacksonville. Long past due.

OCKLAWAHA

[buckethead]

HOLD THE PHONE!

If this was Rick Scott getting a DUI after a Gators game, how different would the tone of the comments be?

Yes they would be harsher. Seriously though a local staffer no matter what party is not going to incur the same vitriol as a Governor no matter what party. 

If you are just trying to bust the people here on the terms that they deal differently towards others based on past events and personal opinions then I will plead guilty. 

For the record it is very bad to drink and drive no matter who you are.   

I should have chosen Mike Hogan as an example. Perhaps a local Tea Party booster.

I like Abel. He is good for Jacksonville. A bright spot in a dull city.

I may or may not be due multiple DUI charges, since I may or may not have driven while intoxicated on multiple occasions.

I am not advocating for his head, but merely trying to inject some objectivity into this discussion. I know without any doubt, the reason for the forbearance here is due to personality, not principle.


The United States of America: We could use more principles. (Along with all the platitudes)

[ChriswUfGator]

Thing is. Even if you blow UNDER the limit, they will still try to charge with a DUI. Happened to a co worker of mine. She was able to get the charge reduced in that situation. However, I blew over so I was screwed. LOL

If he refused to blow that was dumb. but most people THINK that your better off not blowing. If refuse, you still get charged and your license is suspended for one year versus six months. Wasnt a wise move. Guy next to me in court dreded not blowing.

I know they can and do charge you despite blowing under the legal limit. It's really not a legal limit at all, it's simply the point at which you're statutorily impaired vs. the officer having to prove impairment based on other observations.

As to blowing/not blowing, it depends. If you don't do the exercises AND don't blow, then quite likely you'll have a strong(er) argument about lack of PC for the DUI investigation in the first place, and may get anything flowing from that, including the refusal, tossed. If there was no PC for the stop, then you can appeal the DHSMV's administrative suspension of your license, and they quite likely will have to reinstate it since you can only be penalized for refusing a lawful order, and absent PC, the cop's demand that you take a breath test was unlawful. This is a separate process than fighting the refusal charge, which in FL is a separate misdemeanor.

But it's really not a terrible strategy to just refuse everything, assuming there is no other issue that's going to sink the boat before it leaves the dock, e.g. empty beer cans rolling around on the floor of the car. Do a self-check first, but if there is nothing else going on, then it's not a bad strategy. Especially if the officer's claim was, as with Harding, that he was weaving. If there were no other cars around your vehicle when you were failing to maintain a single lane of travel, then going over the white lines is likely not PC since it didn't constitute an infraction that would have entitled the officer to conduct a stop. Ditto with many of the typical excuses, failure to use a turn signal, etc.

Of course, you can always make those arguments even if you do blow, and would be spared the necessity of the DHSMV administrative appeal process if you were successful. But on the other hand, there would be actual evidence of guilt, and so if you lost your battle over PC, then you're significantly worse off at trial. And of course you risk starting the clock on our escalating series of penalties for DUI, the second, third, etc., bear significantly stiffer ramifications than a first. There are few hard and fast rules, it's very situational.

But to do what Harding did, which is do the exercises and then refuse to blow, that's really kind of silly. Even if he gets the DUI tossed, it severely limits his chances of arguing the request he take a breath test was unlawful, so he will probably get stuck with the suspension. Not good strategy.

[ChriswUfGator]

HOLD THE PHONE!

If this was Rick Scott getting a DUI after a Gators game, how different would the tone of the comments be?

Yes they would be harsher. Seriously though a local staffer no matter what party is not going to incur the same vitriol as a Governor no matter what party. 

If you are just trying to bust the people here on the terms that they deal differently towards others based on past events and personal opinions then I will plead guilty. 

For the record it is very bad to drink and drive no matter who you are.   

I should have chosen Mike Hogan as an example. Perhaps a local Tea Party booster.

I like Abel. He is good for Jacksonville. A bright spot in a dull city.

I may or may not be due multiple DUI charges, since I may or may not have driven while intoxicated on multiple occasions.

I am not advocating for his head, but merely trying to inject some objectivity into this discussion. I know without any doubt, the reason for the forbearance here is due to personality, not principle.


The United States of America: We could use more principles. (Along with all the platitudes)

I think there's no difference between coverage given to Harding and what would have been given to Hogan if it were him.

You are stating your foregone conclusion as evidence. Of what, I dunno.

But I don't think there's any difference in treatment.

[buckethead]

 

[ChriswUfGator]

Well why do you think the treatments are so different?

I mean, what break did Harding get cut here? They arrested him, and immediately after it made the local news channels and the newspaper, the Mayor suspended him from his post, etc.? I am not sure what more negative things could possibly have happened to him? Or are you arguing that, if this were Mike Hogan, he would have received more sympathetic treatment?

How could this possibly have turned out any worse for Harding? Let's start there...

[buckethead]

I do not refer to any legal breaks Harding recieved. I doubt he got any. In fact, I do not doubt he has been treated at least a little unjustly. I distrust most police.

That said, the facts of the case would matter so little to many posters here,  had the personality in trouble been of the teabagging/evil conservative/FBC/unpopular at MJ variety.

Deny that if you will. Your perogative.

[ChriswUfGator]

But you have all the normal comments about "must've been doing something wrong..." and "We he failed the sobriety tests, that makes him guilty in my book" etc. And, even aside from those, the general consensus is looking like everyone pretty much agrees public officials are held to a higher standard and he screwed up.

What do you think would be different if this were Hogan? I'm really curious. Who is cutting him any kind of break?

[ronchamblin]

I cannot see it proper for the mayor to react excessively to Harding's unfortunate event, as it is his first time.  The game was exciting and fun, and there is always alcohol at the games.  A lesson learned.  Regret is strong.  Nobody was hurt.  Time to move on.

However "if" it happens again, then I would see it proper for the Mayor to consider asking Mr. Harding for his resignation.

[buckethead]

I would guess there would be an outrage (here at MJ) that any notable conservative had the audacity to endanger the public by operating a motor vehicle while under the influence of alcohol.

Perhaps some comments about hypocrisy... some challenges to any poster to the right of Che Guevera to denounce said notable conservative. I admit, this is wild speculation on my part, but not entirely unfounded based on experience right here at MJ.

(One of my favorite sites, BTW)

What would the general reaction (here at MJ) have been if this was Suzy Wiles?








Try to be honest.

[tufsu1]

I feel for Abel.  While what he did was a bad choice, I'm hesitant to believe he was wholly at fault.  I have been a victim of some pretty unfair stuff on 301. 

sorry, but if he failed a sobriety test, he is fully at fault!

Almost nobody passes the field sobriety exercises, tufsu. They're designed to generate probable cause, not demonstrate sobriety. Harding fucked up, he should have refused those.

guess I should clarify...I meant a blood alcohol level test

[ChriswUfGator]

I feel for Abel.  While what he did was a bad choice, I'm hesitant to believe he was wholly at fault.  I have been a victim of some pretty unfair stuff on 301. 

sorry, but if he failed a sobriety test, he is fully at fault!

Almost nobody passes the field sobriety exercises, tufsu. They're designed to generate probable cause, not demonstrate sobriety. Harding fucked up, he should have refused those.

guess I should clarify...I meant a blood alcohol level test

He refused that. The only test he took was the field sobriety test.