Republicans Against Science: Boast Willful Ignorance as their Trademark

[ronchamblin]

Beautiful video Midway. This politico/economic mess has me worried, and stumped frankly.  I’m more concerned about the “political” problem because its solution, which is very unlikely any time soon, could release, finally, a consistent string of correct decisions regarding the “economy”.  I presume that there “are” correct decisions targeted to affect the economy which “could” be made by our government.  A string of these correct decisions would move our economy to a position of improvement and solution.

This allows me to say that the poor state of our economy is a direct result of incorrect decisions made by our government over the past several decades.  The decisions of course, although covering many areas of our society, also include the ones affecting the regulation of banking and Wall Street. 

Admitting that there are many aspects to an “economy”, and that the entire scenario is complex, one might still suggest that an economy will function properly and with stability over long periods if, for the most part, it is left alone to flow according to the pressures of supply and demand, according to the dynamics of finance, distribution and international trade.  This ideal condition of stability might require only the occasional “control” by way of governmental decisions so that unwanted extremes do not take the economic machine to a sustained condition of imbalance.

Obviously our economic situation, including unemployment, the national debt, and individual debt in the housing market, is in terrible shape, and could get much worse.  Most of us are aware that we are vulnerable as a nation, and as individuals, and that we could face much harsher economic realities. 

My view is that our government, because it is infused with too many individuals intent on achieving and maintaining their own wealth and the wealth of those who support them; because it is structured to satisfy the financially powerful individuals and corporations; because it has achieved over many decades the momentum and habit of corruption, it cannot serve the interests of the people, nor can it make the decisions necessary to cultivate and maintain a healthy economy.

Our government is corrupt.  We are the victims of worsening conditions brought about by it.  Our current very precarious economy has been brought to the brink of collapse because of several decades of actions and inactions by our inept and corrupt government.

The established governmental machine, running amuck in a sea of corrupt and inept politicians and lobbyists, cannot be “fixed” by a few well-meaning legislators or a president, and this is because its structure of corruptness is too entrenched, too rigid to be affected by those few who wish to make decisions having genuine motives for the good of our country and our people.

This entrenched corruptness and ineptitude will continue to allow our government to be ineffective, to make poor decisions on most fronts, including our occasional wars, until there is a major enlightenment, a realization of what has been happening in recent decades.  A serious collapse, much more serious than that which we now endure, may produce the will, the momentum, and the mechanism to clean up the corruption within our government.  Only then can our economy be addressed with the correct decisions to affect a recovery and a stabilization that we all deserve.  Could there be a revolution, similar to France in 1789, where some heads would roll?  That possible event would be interesting as hell.  Would it be fun for some of us.  I have fantasies of seeing some particular heads roll.

But of course we, as sheep, bound and somewhat helpless by our distance from the governmental machine of corruptness, must for the most part, simply wait to see what happens, and hope for the impossible; that enough of the idiots in Washington will stop playing the games of favoritism and “politics”, so that they can begin a movement toward sanity in government.
 
I imagine that there are those in Washington, in finance and other powerful positions, who are worth perhaps 15 million.  And I suspect that many of these same individuals, in order to become worth 15 billion, will do “anything” to get to that 15 billion dollar level of net worth, even if it includes causing many millions of our citizens, who work very hard all day, to drop below the poverty level; even if it includes causing the suffering and death of millions of our citizens, and the citizens of other countries.

Please understand, in these particular cases, I am one who would love to see some heads roll. I would fight to operate the machine called the guillotine.  In fact, if conditions evolve to the point wherein a guillotine is needed to serve sweet justice for this kind of individual, and if it is difficult to find a guillotine, I will volunteer my time to design and build one.  I’ve always loved to build things.           

[buckethead]

While I don't share your bloodlust, I certainly agree with the substance of your post.

Remember: the French Revolution ended up killing far more than were culpable in France's economic woes. (Bolshevism?) It also saw Napolean Bonaparte fill the void left in it's wake. Who would be our new Emperor?

There is very little ideology in DC. Almost any of the principled ideologues in congress would (attempt to) serve the purpose of dismantling the MIC/Bankster oligarchy.

This is why any principled liberal should be pimping Ron Paul. Give me Bernie Sanders as well. Ideology means nothing until the truly entrenched oligarchy is removed.

End the wars and defeat the banksters. Then we can have the discussion about the proper role of the constitution and government.

[FayeforCure]

I completely agree with Midaway, and buckethead, and partly with ronchamblin!

Willfully creating ignorance is the name of the game among Republicans simply for the sake of power.

The core of our problems is that we are all fighting over a smaller piece of an ever increasing pie. In order for us to accept this we are given all kinds of boogey men to blame for our troubles:

1. the poor
2. the immigrants

It's easy for people who are scared and disorganized to be vulnerable to demagogues.

It is also easy to feed uneducated/ignorant people bald lies, expecially when they are repeated often enough:

Here are some of the lies being fed by the GOP:

Lie #1: "Trickle Down" Tax Cuts
   Big Corporations are already sitting on over 2 trillion dollars that they are not investing. Their record profits aren't being used to "create jobs"

Lie #2: Shrink government to create jobs
   How do fewer people building our roads, fewer teachers, fewer firefighters create jobs?
   Stock meaningless GOP response: "government gets in the way," but they can't explain how that works.
   Conclusion: Shrinking government results in fewer jobs.

Lie #3: Taxes on Rich hurt the Economy


Lie #4: Debt Boogeyman
   Long term debt is because of healthcare costs. Medicare for all will bring down healthcare costs. Pay for healthy outcomes, rather than pay for upping the number of expensive procedures.

Lie #5: Social Security is a ponzi scheme
   
Lie #6: We need to tax the Poor

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8uf-ZXLABE

http://www.youtube.com/v/S8uf-ZXLABE
[/quote]

[ronchamblin]

While I don't share your bloodlust, I certainly agree with the substance of your post.

Remember: the French Revolution ended up killing far more than were culpable in France's economic woes. (Bolshevism?) It also saw Napolean Bonaparte fill the void left in it's wake. Who would be our new Emperor?

There is very little ideology in DC. Almost any of the principled ideologues in congress would (attempt to) serve the purpose of dismantling the MIC/Bankster oligarchy.

This is why any principled liberal should be pimping Ron Paul. Give me Bernie Sanders as well. Ideology means nothing until the truly entrenched oligarchy is removed.

End the wars and defeat the banksters. Then we can have the discussion about the proper role of the constitution and government.

While my guillotine idea is part fantasy, it offers a small degree of urgency to our predicament.  And yes, there are individuals in congress who would, if the entrenched “system” could be breached, take action against the special interest favoritism, against the “banksters”, and all others who gain mercilessly at the expense of the average hard working Joe.   


What will it take to breach the entrenched established oligarchy?  My guess is that at some point, before the total collapse of our economy and societal order; there will be, because the increasingly obvious will become knowledge to all but those most blinded by ignorance and religious attachments, an increasing awareness of the disastrous and failed condition of our governmental structure and performance.  This awareness will increasingly penetrate into the minds of more of our sleeping population, even those formerly held captive by the absurdities and propaganda of the established rightists (sounds Soviet doesn’t it).


The increased awareness of obvious abuse and failures of government; the increased recognition of the value of rational thought, the abandonment of religious entanglements and the reliance on prayer in our government, the abandonment of the ridiculous and shameful projection of one’s “fabricated” religious attachments as a means to gain the support of the sheep who have very little knowledge of the sciences or of history â€" all of these trends will increasingly cause occasional flights or departures by former complacent “rightests” to something else; to any position or camp where their efforts and decisions can be based on a genuine desire to form a better country, to realize a better society for “all” of our citizens. 


Many are blind.  Some can see.  It should be the task of those who see, to help the blind to see also.  But yes, Bucket, although I am not completely knowledgeable about Ron Paul’s thinking and position, I am inclined to look to him as one who might be capable of leading our country.  I will look further at his positions.  And I do not know of Sanders at this point. In any case, the current governmental structure of corruption, favoritism and entrenched habits of making absurd decisions, will not allow “anyone” to effectively make the decisions necessary for the ultimate good of our country and our citizens.  The shell of habit must be broken. 


Obama is overcome by the entrenched establishment of absurdities.  Perhaps we do need an Emperor as you ponder; one who would not worry about the next election, and would force the use of his or her power so that perhaps reason and rational thought would reign supreme, overcoming the entrenched motives of greed and power, and overcoming the motives of those who wish to maintain the status quo only because they are favored by it.   

[buckethead]

I completely agree with Midaway, and buckethead, and partly with ronchamblin!

Willfully creating ignorance is the name of the game among Republicans simply for the sake of power.

The core of our problems is that we are all fighting for a smaller piece of an ever increasing pie. In order for us to accept this we are given all kinds of boogey men to blame for our troubles:

1. the poor
2. the immigrants

It's easy for people who are scared and disorganized to be vulnerable to demagogues.

It is also easy to feed uneducated/ignorant people bald lies, expecially when they are repeated often enough:

Here are some of the lies being fed by the GOP:

Lie #1: "Trickle Down" Tax Cuts
   Big Corporations are already sitting on over 2 trillion dollars that they are not investing. Their record profits aren't being used to "craete jobs"

Lie #2: Shrink government to create jobs
   How do fewer people building our roads, fewer teachers, fewer firefighters create jobs?
   Stock meaningless GOP response: "government gets in the way," but they can't explain how that works.
   Conclusion: Shrinking government results in fewer jobs.

Lie #3: Taxes on Rich hurt the Economy


Lie #4: Debt Boogeyman
   Long term debt is because of healthcare costs. Medicare for all will bring down healthcare costs. Pay for healthy outcomes, rather than pay for upping the number of expensive procedures.

Lie #5: Social Security is a ponzi scheme
   
Lie #6: We need to tax the Poor

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8uf-ZXLABE

http://www.youtube.com/v/S8uf-ZXLABE

[/quote]C'mon, Faye!

You gave me Robert Riech to bolster your position?

Labor Secretary under Bill Clinton as China gained most favored trading partner status?

The same guy who chummed around the NAFTA issue? I won't blame him for repealing Glass-Steagal but he wasn't too far from the oval office when it happened.

I saw a few things in your post that were false premises but for the sake of our common interest, I'll refrain from making an issue of them. After all, we agree on the larger issue which must be dealt with before any other discussion is worth having.

[finehoe]

You gave me Robert Riech to bolster your position?

But what part of this video is untrue?

[buckethead]

I did not watch the video. I do read him three or four times a week. He actually has some reasonable things to say, but most of his more cogent points end up so slathered in ideology they lose power.

To find one good point in a ten minute rant is about as good as it gets with him, especially considering his former position of power as meaningless rhetoric spewer as the administration he was part of committed so many blunders directly relating to labor.

It all adds up to a loss of credibility, imo.

[ronchamblin]

Enjoyed Mr. Reich’s talk.  His ideas are addressing some important realities.  I’m not familiar with his past associations.  However, given the recent events and trends, I allow for anyone to change his or her opinions.  He did not address however, the issue to which I tend to give attention, which is that of the “mechanism” to action; that is, the means through which we can force these needed changes.   As I’ve been stressing â€" it is currently almost impossible to breach the wall of stagnation in our government.  This is partially the words of a cynic, but it is also the truth, as if it were not we would have seen some progress toward economic solutions during recent years, and there would be some optimism about our efforts to recover from the current mess.  Our current leadership scenario is stagnated by its structure, wherein infighting and favoritism prevents needed actions.  In the old days, revolution would occasionally breach the wall of stagnation.  But that was the old days -- except of course the current events in some African and Middle East countries. 

Just as in our own city, with its efforts to revitalize the city core --even if we have the ideas and the goals set before us, they are of no consequence if there is no viable machine or mechanism through which the ideas and needs can be realized by decisions resulting in “action”.  Whether in the national scene, or in our own city government, good leadership in the form of a mayor or a president, or even by way of individuals in congress, is of little consequence “if” the mechanism of government is plagued by entrenched attributes and unnecessary complexities (bureaucracies) that, by their very existence, obstructs needed decisions and actions. 

Throughout history the occasionally enlightened Czar, King, or Dictator  accomplished great things, even occasionally for the citizens, because of the simplicity of the mechanism for achieving “action”.  I do not suggest this kind of governmental structure, but it makes the point of the necessity to at least approach its simplicity â€" its ability to form a singular focus for action.  In the decision making process, there was no infighting by those greedily wanting to get a bigger piece of the pie.  The Czar or the King was a singular force for action. 
 
This is why I at times avoid details of specific needs and goals, as these are repeated over and over, and focus instead on achieving or establishing the mechanism through which all of these needs and goals “can” be reached.  It’s much like the fellow who knows he wants to cross the ocean, and attempts to do so without a boat or an airplane.  I prefer to build the boat or an airplane first; that is, the effective mechanism to accomplish the objectives set before me, and then decide upon which shore I wish to land.  This kind of thinking is why I am always right.            
 

[Midway ®]

Faye; I believe you meant to say a bigger piece of an ever smaller pie?

[Midway ®]

And Ronchamblin, if you want any of the proletariat to understand what you are saying, you will need to limit your discourse to monosyllabic words.

[ronchamblin]

And Ronchamblin, if you want any of the proletariat to understand what you are saying, you will need to limit your discourse to monosyllabic words.

Surely you jest Midway.  I always try to use simple words because I know few others.  In any case, everything written should be according to the anticipated reader, and according to the most efficient way for the writer.  I never attempt to search for a word to use simply because it might cause some to believe that I wish to project some kind of artificial sophistication.  Simplicity in all realms achieves the best results, and sometimes the only results.

[Midway ®]

I guess I left this out....

[Midway ®]

You know, it really comes down to what the conservative (white) establishment sees as the end of a white majority  that has been in place for the first 240 years of this country's existence.  It is a major demographic upheaval, and the ruling class won't give it up without a fight. What you are seeing on Fox News is that fight, labeled as a return to "traditional values", like say for instance segregated schools, that's a "traditional" value. Or perhaps a poll tax, that's very "traditional".

[buckethead]

Ah yes... racism...

[ronchamblin]

Race? Absolutely!  Why not?  The dynamics of our political scenarios has always included a race component; just as it includes extreme inequalities of wealth and power.  If we had a big pie, we could show the entire politico/economic problem; wherein the pie is divided up, showing the size of the piece concerned with race, with religious issues, with wealth distribution, with each component of the overall problem.  The size and shape of the race component has changed over the past few decades.  The size is surely smaller and the shape has changed somewhat, but it's still with us.