Jacksonville mayor comes out against new toll road

[thelakelander]

Because its not about alleviating traffic.  That's just one of the things that sounds good selling to the public. Sort of like the Clay County Chamber letter about the road being done to protect the natural environment.  This is about short term job creation and opening rural land up to development.  Unfortunately, while it will benefit a few, the public will be on the hook long term for anything that doesn't pay for itself (ex. feeder roads, utility lines, traffic signals, ROW lawn care, extra sheriff/fire/parks/libraries/pensions, etc.).

[thelakelander]

From my MJ email account:

BROWN ADMINISTRA​TION RESPONDS TO COMMENTS BY LT. GOV. CARROLL ON OUTER BELTWAY PROJECT

State Senator Tony Hill, who sponsored legislation to facilitate the Outer Beltway project, responded to remarks made by Lt. Governor Jennifer Carroll about the Outer Beltway Project on behalf of the Brown Administration: “On Thursday, Mayor Brown spoke with Governor Scott and met with Florida Secretary of Transportation Prasad and District Secretary Mosley. He told all of them he supports the goals of the Outer Beltway project and welcomes the jobs and infrastructure it will create that will help grow JaxPort and move our regional economy to the next level. As you know, Mayor Brown strongly believes in public-private partnerships. Mayor Brown also reminded them of his strong opposition to tolls. He does not support tolls. He is not opposed to the project moving forward because Jacksonville residents will continue to have free roads they can use to access neighborhoods near the Outer Beltway.”

[thelakelander]

I guess the Clay County Chamber took some heat for that Outer Beltway email they sent out:

Alvin Brown opposed Outer Beltway tolls, now (Jennifer Carroll says) he's on board

Lt. Gov. Jennifer Carroll today told the Times-Union's Larry Hannan that Jacksonville Mayor Alvin Brown now supports building the First Coast Outer Beltway as a toll road from Interstate 10 to Blanding Boulevard.

It is a different story than Brown gave Hannan during an interview last month.

"I'm disappointed that something is being done in tough economic times that will cost people more money," he said. "We got rid of tolls a long time ago and now is not the time to bring them back."

Brown's people have yet to get back to Hannan regarding his apparent change of heart.

Meanwhile, Kellie Jo Kilberg, president of the Clay County Chamber of Commerce, resigned Friday after eight years on the job.

Her resignation comes two weeks after the Chamber sent out an email (below) asking people to use a template to reach out to Gov. Rick Scott and express support for the toll project. It does not mention Brown by name, but was sent out after he said he was not behind the project.

In her resignation letter, Kilberg said "it was time to move on; that a new person needs to build on the foundation that she, the chamber staff and the volunteers created during her tenure," according to a news release.

http://jacksonville.com/opinion/blog/403455/matt-dixon/2011-09-02/alvin-brown-opposed-outer-beltway-tolls-now-jennifer?cid=hp-justin

[JeffreyS]

As a resident in Clay who owns a business located in Jax but operates throughout NE Florida SE Georgia I do not see the need for more sprawl in this region.  We should concentrate on creating density and vibrancy on our streets.  Not super highways that divide areas and create more dead end cul de sacs.

[north miami]

Because its not about alleviating traffic.

the image  of Blanding Blvd. "Congestion Alleviation", no matter how knowingly erroneous,was a proven effective Brannon Chaffee driver.Both the Clay Chamber and particularly the Florida Times Union implicated.
The premise of the FDOT Brannon Chaffee permit application that the Brannon Chaffee leg project as applied for was "stand alone", with "no future plans for extension ........." was equally erroneous,or worse.

I knew then that only current events could illuminate the illusions.

[north miami]

. I think the ROW should be bought but the road shouldn't be built until halfway needed.

consider the considerable ROW depicted in the Brannon Chaffee Sector Plan.

Brannon Chaffee Sector Plan,Lake Asbury Sector Pan (including attempt NUMBER ONE-yes...."yelling") should be by now memorized by most commenting here.

[jcjohnpaint]

Because its not about alleviating traffic.  That's just one of the things that sounds good selling to the public. Sort of like the Clay County Chamber letter about the road being done to protect the natural environment.  This is about short term job creation and opening rural land up to development.  Unfortunately, while it will benefit a few, the public will be on the hook long term for anything that doesn't pay for itself (ex. feeder roads, utility lines, traffic signals, ROW lawn care, extra sheriff/fire/parks/libraries/pensions, etc.).

ehh..... and nothing they have said makes any sense in any way from a logistical standpoint/ infrastructure/ industry/ port???.  We will pay for this mistake later.  Just like all the houses we kept building without the demand.  I guess Rick Scott and to say he created some jobs when his term is over.  Why would he care what happens when he is out of office.  He gets to sail off in his yacht while we pay for the bills. 

[thelakelander]

The "this benefits the JAXPORT" talk is even sillier unless we're talking about the Clay County Port or a road builder shipping bulk materials for this project through JAXPORT.  If we're talking about Clay County Port, then there's an argument that Duval County residents money shouldn't be going to it.  If we're talking about short term job creation by shipping construction materials through JAXPORT, then there needs to be a conversation on whether creating short term jobs is worth long term subsidization, considering our muncipal budget is already underwater and expected to sink deeper.

[tufsu1]

this is why I never liked what Brown said a few weeks back...he was never opposed to the road, just the tolls....it made this "switch" in position really easy

and, as Lake noted, there is a likeliood that Brown got something from the Governor and/or FDOT for his endorsement of the project

[north miami]

Tony Hill

Mayor's office has been joined at the hip with Beltway Boosters for decades.
Delaney,Wiles pivotal.

above all it is only all about the rest of us.

[jcjohnpaint]

I was hoping that Brown's reason (only no tolls) was a lack of good reporting at the TU and not the only reason he opposed the road.  In my opinion it is probably the least of the bad reasons to build the road.  I do sure Brown has cooked up a deal to get something else out of this.  That is where I thought the port might come in, but....prob not. 

[Dashing Dan]

So maybe I was wrong to say this project is dead.

But my premature optimism does demonstrate how someone's beliefs (this is a bad project) can influence his or her expectations (this project won't get built). 

To keep a bias like that under control,  it helps to be able to gather together a lot of different opinions from people who have differing points of view.

Long live Metro Jacksonville!

[Dashing Dan]

Oh, and unlike most in my industry (transportation engineering and planning), I'm not afraid to publicly voice my opposition to it.  Having a job is great and the company I work for could use some extra work, but as a taxpayer and Duval County resident, I'm not willing to put my job before my children, family, community and city's long term financial health.

It's usually pointless for an engineer or planner to suppress his or her own opinions.  They'll come out anyway.

[thelakelander]

Behind closed doors.  I've been in the industry long enough to know that there are those who suppress their own true opinions for the sake of getting a steady paycheck.  This is true, regardless of profession.

[thelakelander]

So maybe I was wrong to say this project is dead.

But my premature optimism does demonstrate how someone's beliefs (this is a bad project) can influence his or her expectations (this project won't get built). 

To keep a bias like that under control,  it helps to be able to gather together a lot of different opinions from people who have differing points of view.

Long live Metro Jacksonville!

You were out there.  However, I thought you were speaking about the entire project, not this 15-mile segment.   As for the entire project, there's a great chance it never happens and the construction of this 15-mile segment may be the final nail in its coffin.