"The Library"

[thelakelander]

The market downturn is primarily in the residential sector.  The commercial and industrial sectors seem to be humming along just fine.  Hopefully everything works out for the best.

[hightowerlover]

wow now i can be like all the homeless people and be drunk in the basement of the library.

[Captain Zissou]

Were there ever any talks of putting a theater in this plan for the library??  I know the proposals before had planned to, but I was not sure about this one.

[thelakelander]

It was mentioned in a TU article a few months back.  However, I don't think they were talking about something that would play first run movies.

[mr_big_stuff]

I don't really see all that much vision here, folks.  If you read the project's propaganda and look at their drawings (which were posted here) you'll notice that all the breathtaking open spaces inside this building have been carved up into rentable space. 

Apparently the building's developers believe the project's economics fail unless cubic footage is converted to square footage. 

The problem is that there is a surplus of square footage in downtown Jacksonville already.  Look at all the vacant storefronts in old, new and rehabbed buildings!  The formula for success with the library project is to preserve and build on the building's uniqueness -- both inside and outside. 

Carving up the inside pisses away the opportunity to sell/rent unique spaces at a premium price. 

The result won't be pretty and it won't be occupied.

[downtownparks]

The one way that this is different is the density. There will be an opportunity for more density inside, and you are in very close proximity to Burrito Gallery, London Bridge, Florida Theater, Marks, Dive Bar, TSI, and really, the landing.

If dont right, it could act as a lynch pin, if they get the right mix of tenants.

[thelakelander]

Density makes it a winner for me.  If pulled off right, we'll finally have a chance to see a critical mass in entertainment/dining oriented development sprout up in the heart of the downtown core.

[mr_big_stuff]

 ::)The rent levels necessary to fill up this place will inevitably attract a delightful mix of pawn shops, wig stores, bail bondsmen and tattoo parlors...or maybe even another indoor flea market!  Can't wait!

Done right, it would be a shot in the arm for downtown.  By carving it up, they are turning something special into just some more space.  C'est la vie.

[jerry cornwell]

theres just no residence downtown. mr bigs right im just not optimistic on this.

[thelakelander]

There's about 18,000 daytime workers and 2,000 residents.  Main and Ocean are also the major North/South corridors into Springfield, which has around 6,000 residents.  That's a strong enough population base to support a grocery market that's smaller than the size of a typical CVS.  Also, restaurant/entertainment oriented businesses have a history of pulling people in outside of the immediate area to support them.  This has happened with La Cena, Burrito Gallery and River City Brewing.  Locating a number of similar establishments in a compact setting, such as the library, should only make those located there more successful because of the increased visibility.  I have high hopes for this project.  Hopefully everything works for the best.

[Ocklawaha]

Man, I can't wait. This will be like "El Waco" in Medellin, Colombia. Got to be the most cool use of funky old buildings I have ever seen. They even cut passages from one to the other so entire blocks are full of shopping, food and just about anything else one could want. The floors are not all at the same level from building to building so there is a maze of little halls, ramps, twisting stairs... It is very much like running through a mouse-maze. Thus the name "The Hole" or "El Waco" in Spanish, uh, yes, that town in Texas, translates "Hole". Having this in Jax. could be a huge step in to not only bringing retail and such back downtown, but there could be that FUN element that is missing from similar places in the USA/EEUU.

Ocklawaha
FOREVER: home is Jacksonville
Colombia es mi amor

[Timkin]

Pretty Cool!  Appears that it will look much the same on the exterior. Im pretty suprised at the pictures of it because I always thought it was an ugly, certainly unusual building, exterior-wise.

The concept for it is great. I hope it is a success.

[Jerry Moran]

Let's not waste anymore time on this thread.

I do not believe the developers have the money or experience to produce this project.  The City has gone through every original RFP, except Vestcor.  Vestcor was the natural for the property, as 11 East is adjacent to the site, and John Rood has a proven record of success. Vestcor offered to develop the property, provided the City would deed them the land.  Here we are today, and I don't think Vestcor is interested any longer.

Just the gut feeling of a downtown resident and merchant.

[downtowngirl]

The Ceserys and Rinamans have no experience or money? Please Jerry.

Ambassador Rood must be a big tipper. I guess the $40 million he got to convert the carling and 11 east does keep my rent (and yours) market rate but all of duval pays for that. I wouldn't call him a retail genius either. It took almost a decade of ownership for anything to open in 11 east and that was due to intense pressure. That was after years with a full building of downtown residents.

So the $3 million paid for by the library group goes into the historic fund that will save more historic buildings or give it away to the good ambassador. I feel lucky the ambassador didn't buy it. Rather us give it away.

The historic fund money was going straight into Kuhn's trio and the barnett. No wait he actually is out of money and gutted all of the history out of the barnett. What is your gut on that one?

Plus the police and fire was also rejected with Vestcor's give away, an error in your post. Just in case anyone here wants factual information to go with your gut.

Like Timkin, I like the plans and hope them the best of luck. But everyone is dragged down in this economy. Related, Toll Brothers, Landmar, Hines, and more have all pulled out of downtown and they have money and experience in spades. Be the pioneer you are and support instead of gutting all over us.

[Jerry Moran]

From my gut:

The Main Branch Project is a pipe dream. There is no market in the foreseeable future for what they have planned.  I found that out on a much smaller scale with Panini Oh!

The building itself will prove to be a tar baby, with asbestos, soil contamination, and Historic Preservation among the problems.

Main Branch will come to the City with their hand out sooner or later.

The Jacksonville Historic Preservation Commission is no friend to downtown and it's development. For example, the preservation of the original 11 East windows, which are uninsulated and energy inefficient. How about the slip and fall terrazzo hazard in front of the Carling? The bricks made more sense.  Kuhn may have set downtown development back a few years, but at least he put some very nice windows in the Barnett Building. I wish I could open my windows at 11 East.

I don't like welfare, but the handout to Vestcor to produce 11 East was justified, since Vestcor was the first to take the downtown plunge. Think of it as a new bank offering a teaser rate to open an account.  Those were headier days too.  As for the Carling, Vestcor turned what looked like the Catacombs into something very nice.  It would have cost the City millions just to tear the Roosevelt Hotel down.  The handout wasn't squandered, as is often the case.  It was for once a good use of public funds.

The Main Branch folks are lovely people.  I just hate to see their time and efforts tied up in something that is probably not going to happen.  Ditto for the City.  Atkins and Vestcor had the right idea for the real estate. 

Why the disdain for accomplished, successful businessmen?