Tipping: Should it be one-size-fits all?

[KenFSU]

I'll have to remember that the next time I feel compelled to leave my extra 15-20 cents on the dollar; that it's really in the server's best interest that I don't.

Short term, of course not.

Long term, it's an interesting question.

Personally, I would gladly pay a 20% higher menu price for dinner if it meant servers were hourly employees (not independent contractors), with fair benefits, that I didn't have to worry about tipping.

Nobody wants to hurt the little guy, but it's a ridiculous system.

If I go to Stonewood on a Saturday night and my wife and I order hamburgers and Diet Cokes, we're supposed to pay the server $6 on a $30 tab. If I go to the same restaurant, with the same server, and instead order two filet mignons and four glasses of wine, I'm supposed to pay the same server, for doing the same job as before with little to no extra work, three or four times more on a $100 tab. I'm sorry, but that's goofy. I do it, but I genuinely hate it. It's the same at a bar. Is that bartender really doing anything differently dependent on whether I order a $4 shot of tequila or a $30 shot of tequila, yet society dictates that I just throw exponentially more money at him because he got the liquor from the top shelf instead of the bottom shelf. It's a goofy, somewhat archeaic system that could definitely use a revise.

I've got it:

A flat fee, per guest, that restaurants can freely set.

There's a system I can get behind.

[cityimrov]

I tip unless there's a reason not to. If the server's a dick I'll leave $0.02. If he's a total douchebag I'll leave $0.02, write a list of "Things Not to Do as a Waiter" on the receipt, and hand it to the manager instead of the server. Good service = 20%+ these guys make no money other than your tips, hourlies at restaurants are insanely low and have been that way forever. I personally think the tipping system makes plenty of sense, if the guy's a dick the customer can punish bad service. Which, in itself, encourages good service. I like that part of it.

About this extension of tipping to other areas, I agree it's annoying. Unless it's service at a sit-down restaurant, or unless it's something like hotel employees or a delivery driver, then I see no reason to tip people just for doing random crap that they were already being paid to do anyway. I have noticed, like the other poster, that many places are adding tip lines where there shouldn't be any. If it's a bonafide server at a sit-down restaurant, then they make chump change as hourly wages, specifically because the business relies on tips. So I'll tip them, happily. But I am still not sure why I should tip anyone for handing me a bag of takeout food, or for operating the cash register at Subway. Unlike a real server, you didn't do anything for me that you weren't being paid to do anyway.

Be careful, you can use the same argument for that as for the sit down restaurant!  If this starts catching on, the restaurant owners can then lower the wages on all new employees and say everything is dependent on the tip bucket.  If a certain person is elected President (I think it was Bachmann), then the minimum wage laws will probably be changed to reflect this if they aren't abolished entirely. 

[ChriswUfGator]

I tip unless there's a reason not to. If the server's a dick I'll leave $0.02. If he's a total douchebag I'll leave $0.02, write a list of "Things Not to Do as a Waiter" on the receipt, and hand it to the manager instead of the server. Good service = 20%+ these guys make no money other than your tips, hourlies at restaurants are insanely low and have been that way forever. I personally think the tipping system makes plenty of sense, if the guy's a dick the customer can punish bad service. Which, in itself, encourages good service. I like that part of it.

About this extension of tipping to other areas, I agree it's annoying. Unless it's service at a sit-down restaurant, or unless it's something like hotel employees or a delivery driver, then I see no reason to tip people just for doing random crap that they were already being paid to do anyway. I have noticed, like the other poster, that many places are adding tip lines where there shouldn't be any. If it's a bonafide server at a sit-down restaurant, then they make chump change as hourly wages, specifically because the business relies on tips. So I'll tip them, happily. But I am still not sure why I should tip anyone for handing me a bag of takeout food, or for operating the cash register at Subway. Unlike a real server, you didn't do anything for me that you weren't being paid to do anyway.

Be careful, you can use the same argument for that as for the sit down restaurant!  If this starts catching on, the restaurant owners can then lower the wages on all new employees and say everything is dependent on the tip bucket.  If a certain person is elected President (I think it was Bachmann), then the minimum wage laws will probably be changed to reflect this if they aren't abolished entirely. 

Nah, other types of employees are covered by the statutory minimum wage provisions, so you can't scam it to have them making less than the $7-something an hour minimum wage (and most likely they make more) without the legislature making changes. There is an exception that specifically covers restaurant servers and allows for them to receive a reduced minimum wage in anticipation of tip earnings, but that specific exception in the law is the only reason that servers make less than the normal statutory minimum.

The owner of a car wash or a gas station can't just put a tip bucket next to the register and then reduce all his employees' hourly wages, unless he wants to face fines or have his business seized. There is a specific provision for servers, it doesn't apply to everybody else. So you run no danger of creating this same catch-22 in other businesses. It doesn't even apply to other employees within the same restaurant, the owner must still pay the busboys, cooks, cashiers, etc., at least the minimum wage.

So yeah, whenever you see some random business adding tip lines on their receipts for employees that are not subject to the minimum wage exception, then you really shouldn't feel compelled to tip. They're already being paid to do what they're doing anyway. Personally, I always tip certain people anyway, like valet parkers since they have to run around in 100 degree heat in a uniform, I feel like whatever they're paying them it's not enough. But generally, I don't tip other peoples' employees for things they're paid to do anyway.

[ac]

I've always chalked up the tip line on a takeout receipt to lazy POS terminal setup. With an average run-of-the-mill order I've never felt obligated to tip on takeout just because there was a line to do so, and I doubt the business owner or person handing you your food expects it, either.

This may be helpful:

http://www.emilypost.com/out-and-about/tipping/89-general-tipping-guidelines

RESTAURANTS:
      

Wait service (sit down)-      

15-20%, pre-tax

Wait service (buffet)-
      

10%, pre-tax -(I'm assuming this is if someone is bussing your table, filling drinks, etc.)

Host or Maitre d'-   

No obligation for greeting you and showing you to your table.
$10-$20 for going above and beyond to find you a table on a busy night or on occasion, if you are a regular patron

Take Out-      

No obligation
10% for extra service (curb delivery) or a large, complicated order

Home Delivery-      

10-15% of the bill, $2-5 for pizza delivery depending on the size of the order and difficulty of delivery

Bartender-   

$1-2 per drink or 15-20% of the tab

Tipping jars-   

No obligation
Tip occasionally if your server or barista provides a little something extra or if you are a regular customer.

Restroom Attendant-   

$0.50-$3, depending on the level of service

Valet-

$2-$5
Tip when the car is returned to you.

I think it's pretty safe to assume if Emily Post hasn't covered it, it's safe not to sweat it.

[ChriswUfGator]

AC, I agree with you that when you're doing something like getting takeout pizza from Al's, then sure it's just their terminal setup that adds the tip line automatically. But that's because they're a regular restaurant and you just happen to be getting takeout from them instead. That's not what I'm talking about, though.

What I was referring to is that a bunch of places, like Subway, Jason's Deli, and Moe's are now including tip lines on their receipts. Those folks aren't covered by the minimum wage exception, so they are already being paid a normal wage to do what they're doing. Moreover, they don't actually do anything to serve me, I have to bring my own food to my table, get my own soft drink, and clean my own table when I'm finished. Since they're already being paid for slapping my food on a tray, I don't understand why I would be obligated to leave any tip in addition whatever I paid for the price of the food? There's no actual service.

[cityimrov]

I still don't get why so many people are defending this system to the degree they are here - especially one where the only person really raking in the dollars is the restaurant owner.  A culinary trained chef?  Replaced mostly by just food prep people getting paid minimum wage.  Food cost?  Mass market pricing and production in a single factory that probably makes your frozen food.  Wait staff?  Those are nearly free and barely paid anything plus blames the customer for that low salary.  The Customer? Overpays for food, needs to subsidized wait staff, and that food isn't very healthy adding to our country's obesity problem and thus our health care cost and taxes.     

Why is so much energy given to defending and rewarding a bad system?

Everyone here is also mentioning minimum wage.  Those tip jars are the future and there will probably be a time where minimum wage doesn't equal a living wage (if it doesn't today).  Can a person make a living on a Subway salary?  Will there be a time where we're paying $10 for food that's mostly preservative filled and isn't creatively made?

If that Mr Pink video is what everyone is arguing for, technically - I should be tipping everyone from the grocery cashier all the way to the waiters.  If I visit a Wal-Mart, I should give a dollar to every employee I pass by!  Think about it.  If I see 10 employees, that's $10 and $10 to the total which probably equals the price I would pay for my goods at more ethical store.  More then likely I'll pass by 5 so that's only an extra $5 out of my wallet.  Way cheaper than a store I considered more ethical. 

[blfair]

...A culinary trained chef?  Replaced mostly by just food prep people getting paid minimum wage.  Food cost?  Mass market pricing and production in a single factory that probably makes your frozen food.  Wait staff?  Those are nearly free and barely paid anything plus blames the customer for that low salary.  The Customer? Overpays for food, needs to subsidized wait staff, and that food isn't very healthy adding to our country's obesity problem and thus our health care cost and taxes... [snip]

It sounds like you really don't like restaurants. I think you should maybe stop going to them...

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

It sounds like you really don't like DARDEN restaurants. I think you should maybe stop going to them...

[cityimrov]

It sounds like you really don't like DARDEN restaurants. I think you should maybe stop going to them...

Actually, the restaurant I'm thinking about when I made this thread is a very popular (non Darden) restaurant located in the SJTC with premium prices.  I would love to stop going to them except I have a dozen gift cards with values worth it which they won't refund the cash bought them with so I'm trying to figure out what to do.  Who knows, maybe just for fun I'll order the cheapest thing in the menu and whoever the lucky waiter is, I'll give them the rest of the card as tip so the restaurant will have to pay all that cash to them.  I don't know yet.

For some reason, whenever someone wants to eat out it's never to this awesome places that MJ Dining Blog mentions but to well - these places!  In those cases, it's Darden!  I can't even get people to eat out at places like Chew or Orsay or bb's!  It's like they are scared to go there for some reason.  It's either a chain, buffet, or nothing!  It's like places like Riverside or Downtown or Avondale is dangerous or something where they'll get mugged or shot.  I don't get it but that is an entirely different topic that I probably posted about somewhere else.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

Now we're getting to the heart of the matter.

I hate to tell you but (and I'm sure someone will correct me) there's not one good restaurant at SJTC.  There, I've said it.  They are all over-priced, sysco filled places that are getting by on name recog alone; but who can blame them?  If I could seat 400 people in a night and serve overpriced sirloin or chemical treated tuna or kobe (really?) burgers, then I sure as hell would do it.

My personal rule of thumb is to try a place out, look in the kitchen and if nobody's yelling or sweating profusely, then I probably don't want to go back.  It's a chore to prepare food.  It's a chore to cook food to exacting standards.  It's a chore to make 3-4 people put together freshly cooked dishes on the plate at the same time.  It's not so tough to re-heat already pre-cooked parts and put them together on a plate with a sprig of parsley.

Servers are a reflection of the restaurant's ownership.  If they come to your table with, "What do you want, My name is....., Can I take your order....." you prob don't want to be there and neither do they.  So some of your argument holds true, but it's not the way things work - that's also why you can get the same food at a much cheaper restaurant.  Instead of going to Black Fin - $18-$27 per and drinks at $7-$12, go to Red Lobster (yeah, I know - Darden), but you'll get a better meal for 1/2 the cost.

[ac]

I would love to stop going to them except I have a dozen gift cards with values worth it which they won't refund the cash bought them with so I'm trying to figure out what to do. 

Planet Green- How To Sell, Trade Your Gift Cards

Problem Solved!

EDIT- Whoops, didn't check the date or the links in that blog post. Looks like the only only one who still does the buyback is Plastic Jungle.

Looks like you can get 80% of the value back on Darden Restaurant GCs though.

[ac]

AC, I agree with you that when you're doing something like getting takeout pizza from Al's, then sure it's just their terminal setup that adds the tip line automatically. But that's because they're a regular restaurant and you just happen to be getting takeout from them instead. That's not what I'm talking about, though.

What I was referring to is that a bunch of places, like Subway, Jason's Deli, and Moe's are now including tip lines on their receipts. Those folks aren't covered by the minimum wage exception, so they are already being paid a normal wage to do what they're doing. Moreover, they don't actually do anything to serve me, I have to bring my own food to my table, get my own soft drink, and clean my own table when I'm finished. Since they're already being paid for slapping my food on a tray, I don't understand why I would be obligated to leave any tip in addition whatever I paid for the price of the food? There's no actual service.

My guess is that more and more people use debit and/or credit and don't carry cash to tip. All of those places you named, while they wouldn't normally require a tip, also happen to do large orders and catering for pickup.  In that event, it's still not necessarily required but a good idea to recognize and reward the extra time it took to prepare those large orders. If you weren't carrying cash and had no tip line, how else could you?

OTOH, If you ever run across a cashier at Subway or Moe's who gives the stinkeye if you don't write in a tip for your single Italian BMT or Joey Bag O'Donuts, then by all means resent it (and tell them to bugger off). Otherwise, pretend that tip line isn't there, as it doesn't apply to you.

IMO this particular hangup is a molehill. Maybe I'm more willing than most to assume no ill intent to shame/guilt people into tipping unnecessarily for takeout.

[Jaxson]

It sounds like you really don't like DARDEN restaurants. I think you should maybe stop going to them...

Actually, the restaurant I'm thinking about when I made this thread is a very popular (non Darden) restaurant located in the SJTC with premium prices.  I would love to stop going to them except I have a dozen gift cards with values worth it which they won't refund the cash bought them with so I'm trying to figure out what to do.  Who knows, maybe just for fun I'll order the cheapest thing in the menu and whoever the lucky waiter is, I'll give them the rest of the card as tip so the restaurant will have to pay all that cash to them.  I don't know yet.

For some reason, whenever someone wants to eat out it's never to this awesome places that MJ Dining Blog mentions but to well - these places!  In those cases, it's Darden!  I can't even get people to eat out at places like Chew or Orsay or bb's!  It's like they are scared to go there for some reason.  It's either a chain, buffet, or nothing!  It's like places like Riverside or Downtown or Avondale is dangerous or something where they'll get mugged or shot.  I don't get it but that is an entirely different topic that I probably posted about somewhere else.

One perception of locally-owned restaurants is that they are supposedly more expensive than the chain eateries.  Reality tends to prove otherwise.  I had a conversation with a chef at Blue Fish and what he said made a lot of sense.  His place, and others like it, offer reasonably priced entrees that rival those prices that are offered at even the 'cheapest' fast food place.  A small plate and a drink at Blue Fish cost only five dollars more than a value meal and are comparable in price to a chain restaurant.  I, personally, have made a point of seeking out more locally-owned establishments.

Back to the topic, my biggest complaint about restaurants is when servers neglect to communicate with the customer.  I would prefer a waiter/waitress who explains to me that my meal may be running a bit late over the one who visits my table as often as a solar eclipse occurs.  I understand that a place can be busy to the point of being slammed.  I also believe that there should at least be some understanding on the part of the staff that customers would like to be kept in the loop when it comes to the food that they are ordering.  Instead, many servers risk appearing aloof, disinterested or rude.  I will still tip regardless of the crappy service, but will tip more for those who actually give service that deserves a larger tip.

[danem]

I have noticed, like the other poster, that many places are adding tip lines where there shouldn't be any. If it's a bonafide server at a sit-down restaurant, then they make chump change as hourly wages, specifically because the business relies on tips. So I'll tip them, happily. But I am still not sure why I should tip anyone for handing me a bag of takeout food, or for operating the cash register at Subway. Unlike a real server, you didn't do anything for me that you weren't being paid to do anyway.

I always figured they used the same software as the sit-down restaurants, thus the tip line is there. I just ignore it. Some of those counter places offer a few nice extras, like bringing your food to you, or pouring your drink, and I suppose those might be worthy of some extra generosity now and then. But if I have to walk in a line micromanaging my meal preparation and then have to juggle my tray while pouring a drink from the fountain, well tipping seems just silly!

Thank goodness I haven't had a "bad" server in a very long time. I forget the last time I wanted to just leave 2 cents. 

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

I forget the last time I wanted to just leave 2 cents. 

Until now?


Blame FBC.