How To Get A Streetcar System In Jacksonville

[ralpho37]

The only way CSX would be involved is to provide some sort of financial backing due to their location along the proposed sreetcar line.  As mentioned above, other employers along the line should be expected to contribute if CSX is.

Just because CSX is a railroad doesn't mean they will get anywhere near the construction or operation of any commuter rail system, let alone streetcars.

[fsujax]

I believe the streetcar is #2 on TransformJax's list.

[tufsu1]

doug...yes, TransForm Jax will be working on streetcar....at the moment, they are focusing on possible layouts for the convention center...but streetcar is in the "on deck circle"

[dougskiles]

Thanks - I look forward to the updates.

[Ocklawaha]

if we could expand the rail we already have downtown, or mix into a comprehensive system, that would be ideal. Something disparate from what exists would only add to the lack of cohesion which is among this city's primary challenges.

In NYC you can transfer from the subway onto a bus, which usually has either going in a direction you want to go, not so here

WTF? What rail do we "already have?" There isn't ANY municipal rail passenger operation any closer then Tampa or Atlanta, except for some City or Jaxport owned freight trackage along Talleyrand or out on Blount Island, there isn't any municipal rail at all.  So its sort of hard to be disparate from something that doesn't exist.

We'd all agree we're not New York City (THANK GOD!), but if your reasoning or excuse is that Jacksonville or any other city can't start a rail project because it won't go where you want to go, then you are defeated before you even try. Imagine if NYC had taken that view back in the 1800's? Today, there would be no rail transit system at all because they would never have started it. Every place has to start somewhere, and this seems to be our hour.

NYC due to geography is primarily a long narrow island or two, ideal for a lineal transit system. Jacksonville is more like a big square with a zigzagging river cutting through the center of it. As a result of the river(s) our developed areas follow equally predictable lineal routes, developed by streetcar, for streetcar... Gee I've got an idea! Let's build STREETCAR!

OCKLAWAHA

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

Ock, I agree, but if we want to be unlike any other city, we need a streetcar that boards a water ferry to help it criss-cross the zig-zagging river. 

I've looked but couldn't find any examples.

Think of a regular ferry with steel tracks in the deck to shuttle the streetcar across the river from riverside to san marco or DT to san marco or riverside to DT when traffic is backed up and clogging the shared streets.

[urbaknight]

Ock, I agree, but if we want to be unlike any other city, we need a streetcar that boards a water ferry to help it criss-cross the zig-zagging river. 

I've looked but couldn't find any examples.

Think of a regular ferry with steel tracks in the deck to shuttle the streetcar across the river from riverside to san marco or DT to san marco or riverside to DT when traffic is backed up and clogging the shared streets.

That sounds like a good idea, it would be very neat. But, it may drive up the fare.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

^  Honestly, I meant it in a gimmicky, tongue-in-cheek-but-would-it-really-work kind of way.  I don't know.

IMO, it's cheaper to build a boat than to build a bridge.  (or I guess you could drop off passengers at ferry terminals, but what fun would that be?)

[thelakelander]

It wouldn't be practical since a streetcar still wouldn't be able to cross the FEC tracks at grade on the Southbank.  Besides, we already have a river crossing in the Skyway.  This is why many believe that extending the Skyway from Kings Avenue to Atlantic Blvd. makes the most sense for investing in fixed transit in the Southbank/San Marco.  For anything further out, you'll have commuter rail running on the FEC one day.

[dougsandiego]

I agree with an earlier post that there are many ways to implement a starter system. In San Diego, the long delayed initial streetcar line (Centre City Loop or Silver Line) is to begin in August with only ONE restored PCC! It is hoped that the reappearance of this piece of San Diego's past will excite the community and accelerate the process of expansion. Four more cars are in various states of restoration. The effort has been completely a volunteer affair although MTS allows use of its yards and equipment for ongoing restoration work.

Already, meetings are being held to expand the line to Balboa Park and beyond to North Park, Golden Hill, University Heights, Kensington and Hillcrest. Check out San Diego vintage trolley and San Diego Electric Railway. It is a slog, but once you get started, people will see the benefits and resistance will melt away.

[dougskiles]

Once the streetcar from Riverside to DT has experienced success, and the Skyway has been extended to Atlantic Blvd, I believe a great location for a streetcar would be on San Jose Blvd from San Marco to Mandarin.

[thelakelander]

I agree with an earlier post that there are many ways to implement a starter system. In San Diego, the long delayed initial streetcar line (Centre City Loop or Silver Line) is to begin in August with only ONE restored PCC! It is hoped that the reappearance of this piece of San Diego's past will excite the community and accelerate the process of expansion. Four more cars are in various states of restoration. The effort has been completely a volunteer affair although MTS allows use of its yards and equipment for ongoing restoration work.

Already, meetings are being held to expand the line to Balboa Park and beyond to North Park, Golden Hill, University Heights, Kensington and Hillcrest. Check out San Diego vintage trolley and San Diego Electric Railway. It is a slog, but once you get started, people will see the benefits and resistance will melt away.

Interesting.  I didn't know that San Diego was working to bring streetcars back.  I'm scheduled to be in San Diego August 5-9, so I'll have to check things out.

[Ocklawaha]

It wouldn't be practical since a streetcar still wouldn't be able to cross the FEC tracks at grade on the Southbank.  Besides, we already have a river crossing in the Skyway.  This is why many believe that extending the Skyway from Kings Avenue to Atlantic Blvd. makes the most sense for investing in fixed transit in the Southbank/San Marco.  For anything further out, you'll have commuter rail running on the FEC one day.

The only 'streetcar' line in the Southbank that makes any sense with regards to the FEC RY tracks is one that would run east m/l alongside I-95 or across the JEA site and pick up Atlantic/Beach in Saint Nicholas. From Saint Nic on eastward there are no obstructions and several areas of broads medians. I agree though that San Marco is a complete wash.

OCKLAWAHA

[dougsandiego]

Also, check: sdmts.com/streetcarstudy.asp for expansion information.

I believe once any city gets a small line built, people see the possibilities such systems offers for economic expansion and revitalization.

[JeffreyS]

There is a tipping point one the skyway has not crossed.  It can't be too small a line or the potential won't shine. As soon as it starts connecting people to where they want to go sparks will fly.  If Avondale has a streetcar through Riverside and Downtown then San Marco will demand the skyway come to the square and bang our system looks pretty good.