4th of July Shooting

[downtownduval]

Last night after the festivities Downtown a fight occurred that lead to a young man dying and another two wounded. The times reported have varied but between 11 and 12 (well after the fireworks) the incident occurred.

http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/2011-07-05/story/1-shot-following-fireworks-dies-2-other-victims-released-hosptal

Once again we are hearing how dangerous downtown is and how the gangs run rampant and so on. I have a hard time believing this had anything to do the people living in actual downtown.  Unfortunately, every time something like this happens everyone is quick to go back to how dangerous downtown can be. It drives me crazy to hear all these people who know everything about Downtown but only visit once or twice a year. Crime occurs everywhere it's a fact of life. When you have crowds of people you are bound to have a few problems. I hope we can find ways to eliminate these issues in the future it's just a shame it had to happen.

[ChriswUfGator]

Agreed, downtown gets a lot of bad press. But it's also kind of deserved, a lot of stuff does happen there. Not because downtown is dangerous, but because of the unspoken issue that, despite their headquarters and jail being downtown, there is really very little permanent police presence downtown, except to handle traffic around Hemming at lunch hour, and during special events like Jags games, etc. Aside from that, the only cops you ever see down there are on their way to/from the jail or police building and pay no attention outside their vehicles. COJ really should look at assigning a few cops to walk beats downtown at nighttime hours, it would do wonders to curb the goings-on there.

I think at the end of the day, if you subjected any given area of the city to a well-known lack of police presence, then you'd have similar problems with crime. I guess JSO figures their resources are better utilized in more populated non-abandoned areas, which is probably true. But you have to start somewhere if we want it to become what we all want it to be, and every time something like this is in the news it just reinforces the xenophobic suburban mindset even further.

[Noone]

I'd love to see a news Blitz that any business that has video surveillance in the three hour window 10pm. people walking. 11-12 the shooting. 12-1am people running  would immediately give it to JSO and this may already have happened. Isn't this near First Baptist? Do they have video? Follow the kids leaving the fireworks and then maybe you would see the potential shooter or shooters. The potential video needs to be from a large block radius.
Another tragic senseless death.
I hope they find the person or persons responsible.

[north miami]

When heading out for a bike ride there are certain areas certifiably off limits.

Also certified is that fact that crime does happen 'everywhere' but is prone to occur in certain concentrated incident areas.

I left downtown events early yesterday because of tired of it all feeling.
The Jazz Festival was positive.

July 4 event a different 'crowd'.

spin it all you want

[duvaldude08]

Last night after the festivities Downtown a fight occurred that lead to a young man dying and another two wounded. The times reported have varied but between 11 and 12 (well after the fireworks) the incident occurred.

http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/2011-07-05/story/1-shot-following-fireworks-dies-2-other-victims-released-hosptal

Once again we are hearing how dangerous downtown is and how the gangs run rampant and so on. I have a hard time believing this had anything to do the people living in actual downtown.  Unfortunately, every time something like this happens everyone is quick to go back to how dangerous downtown can be. It drives me crazy to hear all these people who know everything about Downtown but only visit once or twice a year. Crime occurs everywhere it's a fact of life. When you have crowds of people you are bound to have a few problems. I hope we can find ways to eliminate these issues in the future it's just a shame it had to happen.

I completely agree. With a crowd of that magnitude, something was bound to pop off. And I dont think it could have been prevented persay. This day and age, police presence or no police presence is not a factor. Hell people dont even wear masks anymore when they rob stores. This is a new breed of criminals we are encountering. HOWEVER, I blame JSO for not having enough prscence. They should have been able to make an arrest. Instead, they are running around like idiots depending on the people in the crowd to identify the suspect. JSO is a joke.

[Overstreet]

Hogan and Ashley...........isn't that about where First Baptist Church is?

Kinda far from the fireworks.  Walk ability put them near danger I guess. Otherwise they'd have been their cars leaving an hour or so before when the fireworks were over at 10.

[downtownduval]

We walked down right before the fireworks started (9:15) and it seemed like a tense environment. While we were waiting we saw a large group of people (50+) running fast towards us away from something. Typically people want run from a fist fight like that. We never heard what caused it or what happened. However, when we were heading back home we noticed a lot of extra cops as well the Police Helicopter shinning the streets surrounding the area. This was around 10 or so. The other incident happened sometime at least an hour later and almost a mile away. I agree we need a stronger police presence if we are ever going to make it a place people are not afraid to bring the family. It's just a shame we have such great events and fun down here year round and the one thing automatically over rules all good ever done by the kind people who love this area and want to see it live to its potential.

[KenFSU]

I'm not sure if anyone watched the one-hour special on TV leading up to the fireworks, but the newscasters down there were repeatedly mentioning how safe downtown felt, and how the bad reputation is often unwarranted. As soon as I saw this, I knew someone was getting shot that night.

[duvaldude08]

If you put all those people anywhere else in Jacksonville someone would have still gotten shot. This had nothing to with downtown, but of course people are gonna pin it on downtown as usual. From time I was a child, the 4th of July always drew a very rough crowd. If downtown was not safe we would have had issues during the Jazz festival, but we didnt. That was a totally different element that was there on the 4th. Could have happen anywhere. BUT that does not excuse JSO's terriable work.

[Shwaz]

If you put all those people anywhere else in Jacksonville someone would have still gotten shot. This had nothing to with downtown, but of course people are gonna pin it on downtown as usual. From time I was a child, the 4th of July always drew a very rough crowd. If downtown was not safe we would have had issues during the Jazz festival, but we didnt. That was a totally different element that was there on the 4th. Could have happen anywhere. BUT that does not excuse JSO's terriable work.

Jacksonville Beach had an arguably larger crowd and no reported killings.

Downtown certainly has issues with violent crime.

[duvaldude08]

If you put all those people anywhere else in Jacksonville someone would have still gotten shot. This had nothing to with downtown, but of course people are gonna pin it on downtown as usual. From time I was a child, the 4th of July always drew a very rough crowd. If downtown was not safe we would have had issues during the Jazz festival, but we didnt. That was a totally different element that was there on the 4th. Could have happen anywhere. BUT that does not excuse JSO's terriable work.

Jacksonville Beach had an arguably larger crowd and no reported killings.

Downtown certainly has issues with violent crime.

Again, it could have happen anywhere. Now if you would have said was the people of Jacksonville have a problem with violent crime, I could agree with that. The individuals invovled were not DT residents and it is unfair to pin DT as being violent because people from other parts of Jacksonville decided to start shooting on the 4th of July.

If someone from the NS came to the beach and starting shooting, I guess it would be safe to say that the beaches have a problem with violent crime, right?

[Shwaz]

If you put all those people anywhere else in Jacksonville someone would have still gotten shot. This had nothing to with downtown, but of course people are gonna pin it on downtown as usual. From time I was a child, the 4th of July always drew a very rough crowd. If downtown was not safe we would have had issues during the Jazz festival, but we didnt. That was a totally different element that was there on the 4th. Could have happen anywhere. BUT that does not excuse JSO's terriable work.

Jacksonville Beach had an arguably larger crowd and no reported killings.

Downtown certainly has issues with violent crime.

Again, it could have happen anywhere. Now if you would have said was the people of Jacksonville have a problem with violent crime, I could agree with that. The individuals invovled were not DT residents and it is unfair to pin DT as being violent because people from other parts of Jacksonville decided to start shooting on the 4th of July.

If someone from the NS came to the beach and starting shooting, I guess it would be safe to say that the beaches have a problem with violent crime, right?

Sure these crimes affect the entire Jacksonville demographic but ignoring that they are a concentrated in a specific area is short sighted. Many of the posts above are personal accounts of the violent element that visits and makes trouble downtown. Dismissing these occurrences because they were not carried out by actual residents of downtown is shortsighted too as downtown has very few residents in comparison to the rest of Jacksonville. I’m sure no one is accusing the few residents that do live DT of being violent… more like that DT attracts a violent element and it is a major problem. 

I've personally had multiple close calls during FLA vs. GA weekend, 4th of July and NYE while just minding my own and trying to enjoy the events. I’ve seen everything from ‘frat boy’ fights to gang activity and it’s obvious that I’m not alone. If we want to clean up downtown to attract more residents, business’ and public events these issues have to addressed.

[duvaldude08]

If you put all those people anywhere else in Jacksonville someone would have still gotten shot. This had nothing to with downtown, but of course people are gonna pin it on downtown as usual. From time I was a child, the 4th of July always drew a very rough crowd. If downtown was not safe we would have had issues during the Jazz festival, but we didnt. That was a totally different element that was there on the 4th. Could have happen anywhere. BUT that does not excuse JSO's terriable work.

Jacksonville Beach had an arguably larger crowd and no reported killings.

Downtown certainly has issues with violent crime.

Again, it could have happen anywhere. Now if you would have said was the people of Jacksonville have a problem with violent crime, I could agree with that. The individuals invovled were not DT residents and it is unfair to pin DT as being violent because people from other parts of Jacksonville decided to start shooting on the 4th of July.

If someone from the NS came to the beach and starting shooting, I guess it would be safe to say that the beaches have a problem with violent crime, right?

Sure these crimes affect the entire Jacksonville demographic but ignoring that they are a concentrated in a specific area is short sighted. Many of the posts above are personal accounts of the violent element that visits and makes trouble downtown. Dismissing these occurrences because they were not carried out by actual residents of downtown is shortsighted too as downtown has very few residents in comparison to the rest of Jacksonville. I’m sure no one is accusing the few residents that do live DT of being violent… more like that DT attracts a violent element and it is a major problem. 

I've personally had multiple close calls during FLA vs. GA weekend, 4th of July and NYE while just minding my own and trying to enjoy the events. I’ve seen everything from ‘frat boy’ fights to gang activity and it’s obvious that I’m not alone. If we want to clean up downtown to attract more residents, business’ and public events these issues have to addressed.

Right. That more on the lines of my thoughts. Its the type of crowds that downtown attract. Which would be expected. Anytime you have a party huge party crowd around, you can expect something to pop off. The JAxx festival was smooth sailing, but it was a very laid crowd which made a huge difference. As I stated earlier, JSO needs to their job and patrol downtown. (which I read is one of the recommendations for the new leadership). Downtown will never be crime free, that unrealistic. But it can be controled if JSO, who is literally up the street actually patroled the area. I think the urban core is ignored by JSO because its not heavily populated. But what they fail to realize is that crime still happens. DT definately has issues, but I feel safer DT than I do on certain parts of the NS thats for sure.

[Shwaz]

Jax Beach had crowds so large that it took visitors over an hour to cross the intercoastal after the event... and there were zero shootings. There are plenty of places and events all over town that attract huge crowds and rarely does anything 'pop-off'.

Feeling safer than say parts of the North Side isn't saying much.

[Debbie Thompson]

And there aren't usually shootings downtown either.   I used to live in Jax Beach. It isn't crime free either.