Downtown Bars: A History

[Tacachale]

I remember in the early 2000's that the spot that used to be Sinclair's was the Voodoo Lounge. It was VERY small and cramped but for some reason I enjoyed it. I remember that there always would be a line of people waiting to go inside.

As far as downtown nightlife goes, did the Beaches and 'mega-clubs' kill Downtown as a nightlife destination?

I don't think the Beaches killed downtown nightlife. Nightlife there was seriously declining through much of the same timeframe downtown was declining. This was before my time, but my understanding is the deterioration of the Jax Beach boardwalk and amusement park area was the big factor there. It wasn't until the 1990s that Jax Beach was really revitalized, and that took the effort of both the Jax Beach and Jax governments to turn it around. Other than Mayport Road, which has always been a popular navy spot, Atlantic and Neptune Beach weren't a real hotspot until they completed the Town Center (the Beaches Town Center, that is) in 2000.

There were always great places throughout the Beaches, but it wasn't anything like it is now.

[Jaxson]

I remember in the early 2000's that the spot that used to be Sinclair's was the Voodoo Lounge. It was VERY small and cramped but for some reason I enjoyed it. I remember that there always would be a line of people waiting to go inside.

As far as downtown nightlife goes, did the Beaches and 'mega-clubs' kill Downtown as a nightlife destination?

I don't think the Beaches killed downtown nightlife. Nightlife there was seriously declining through much of the same timeframe downtown was declining. This was before my time, but my understanding is the deterioration of the Jax Beach boardwalk and amusement park area was the big factor there. It wasn't until the 1990s that Jax Beach was really revitalized, and that took the effort of both the Jax Beach and Jax governments to turn it around. Other than Mayport Road, which has always been a popular navy spot, Atlantic and Neptune Beach weren't a real hotspot until they completed the Town Center (the Beaches Town Center, that is) in 2000.

There were always great places throughout the Beaches, but it wasn't anything like it is now.

The Beaches are their own nightlife entity for two reasons.  First is because many folks on the other side of the Intracoastal would rather drink rat poison than trek into town.  They are much more comfortable with their scene at the Lemon Bar, Ragtime, the Ritz or whatever.  Secondly, I do not see the Beaches really rolling out the red carpet to the townies.  This is evidenced whenever the Beaches get upset about the changing clientele a their bars, whenever the Beaches try to change their laws to keep out the 'wrong element' and whenever townies complain that they are being disproportionately targeted for DUIs when they cross the 'ditch.'

[David]

I know it seems downtown's comeback hasn't happened, but from a nightlife perspective I dont recall us ever having as many options as we do now. Between the Landing, BG, Lit, Poppy Love Smoke, Burro, Dos Gatos & the Bay St bars it seems that our venue count is above a dozen for the first time in recent memory.

As far as the venues being as unique as they were in the past, I can't quite agree with that. It's been hard to match the vibe at the old Milk Bar, Moto Longe or even old wave night at 618/DV8/Milkdome

Those venues each probably drew larger crowds than the 2 or 3 of the current ones put together.

All I know is i have some video footage of my friends and I driving around in 2000 & 2001 on a weekend night downtown and aside from 618, all of the streets were deserted. At least now you get a little foot traffic between Forsyth Ocean and Bay. 

[Tacachale]

I remember in the early 2000's that the spot that used to be Sinclair's was the Voodoo Lounge. It was VERY small and cramped but for some reason I enjoyed it. I remember that there always would be a line of people waiting to go inside.

As far as downtown nightlife goes, did the Beaches and 'mega-clubs' kill Downtown as a nightlife destination?

I don't think the Beaches killed downtown nightlife. Nightlife there was seriously declining through much of the same timeframe downtown was declining. This was before my time, but my understanding is the deterioration of the Jax Beach boardwalk and amusement park area was the big factor there. It wasn't until the 1990s that Jax Beach was really revitalized, and that took the effort of both the Jax Beach and Jax governments to turn it around. Other than Mayport Road, which has always been a popular navy spot, Atlantic and Neptune Beach weren't a real hotspot until they completed the Town Center (the Beaches Town Center, that is) in 2000.

There were always great places throughout the Beaches, but it wasn't anything like it is now.

The Beaches are their own nightlife entity for two reasons.  First is because many folks on the other side of the Intracoastal would rather drink rat poison than trek into town.  They are much more comfortable with their scene at the Lemon Bar, Ragtime, the Ritz or whatever.  Secondly, I do not see the Beaches really rolling out the red carpet to the townies.  This is evidenced whenever the Beaches get upset about the changing clientele a their bars, whenever the Beaches try to change their laws to keep out the 'wrong element' and whenever townies complain that they are being disproportionately targeted for DUIs when they cross the 'ditch.'

The beach-vs.-town thing is really overplayed. The Beaches are their own nightlife entity because there are a concentration of nightlife locations that generate a thriving scene, as well as a significant number of people living in the neighborhood to patronize them. That's the same combination with all of our sustained nightlife locations, whether it's Riverside, the Beaches, downtown St. Augustine, etc. In all of those places you have people who'd generally rather stay in the neighborhood when they go out, and why not?

Of course, when you get that, you also get some who take it too far and fall for the notion that their little corner of the world has everything that is worth having, and that going somewhere else even for a visit is abhorrent to their very being. Those people are, of course, idiots. But it doesn't mean everyone who happens to live near them should be painted with the same idiot brush.

[marksjax]

Stephen, I knew you would not disappoint with your wealth of knowledge on this subject.
Thanks for the real story!

[Ajax]

I remember in the early 2000's that the spot that used to be Sinclair's was the Voodoo Lounge. It was VERY small and cramped but for some reason I enjoyed it. I remember that there always would be a line of people waiting to go inside.

As far as downtown nightlife goes, did the Beaches and 'mega-clubs' kill Downtown as a nightlife destination?

Yeah, I remember the Voodoo Lounge.  That was in Sinclair's?  I was thinking it was closer to where Cafe 331 is now.  I used to see Jaguars players there on Sunday nights after games - I remember seeing Marcus Stroud walk by with a cigarette in his mouth and thinking that Tom Coughlin would not approve of this!

Speaking of Cafe 331 - isn't that where Thee Imperial was?  Tony Allegretti used to have Biggie Tea's Gold Exchange - you would drop your business card in a fish bowl and they would give you free shots of Goldschlager.  I think that was the last time I had Goldschlager. 

I remember Howard's G-String, but it closed down by the time I was old enough to get in. 

Metropolis was the best.  Downtown was still fun, exciting, mysterious back then.  I liked Milk Bar and saw some good shows there, but Metropolis was the place for me. 

I missed out on Moto Lounge, although I heard about it.  Did it last long?  For some reason I never made it before they closed down.  Maybe I was newly married or something. 

This wasn't quite downtown, but I would be remiss if I didn't raise a glass to Art Bar. 

[marksjax]

I have always thought the whole beaches residents "I don't cross the ditch" mentality to be a bit silly. I live there and I never acclimated myself to that sort of clique attitude. Kind of like the 'Salt Life' phenomenon. I just roll my eyes to those that take it so seriously.
I am reasonably sure that most everyone at the beach does indeed 'cross the ditch' more often than they will admit to their cronies. Really silly stuff, but, to each his own.

[Jaxson]

I have always thought the whole beaches residents "I don't cross the ditch" mentality to be a bit silly. I live there and I never acclimated myself to that sort of clique attitude. Kind of like the 'Salt Life' phenomenon. I just roll my eyes to those that take it so seriously.
I am reasonably sure that most everyone at the beach does indeed 'cross the ditch' more often than they will admit to their cronies. Really silly stuff, but, to each his own.

I agree 100% that it is silly for those folks at the Beaches to have an aversion to crossing the 'ditch.'  I can understand that there is a practical reason as they don't want to have to worry about getting tanked and then debate whether to get a motel room, find a friend's place to crash or risk getting a DUI.  There are others, however, who simply do not believe that there is anything in town that they need.  I know of these people because I work with them at the Beaches and they will never know the fun of brunch in Avondale, an afternoon in Five Points, an evening at downtown ArtWalk or catching a film in San Marco.  Their loss! 

[duvaldude08]

I know it seems downtown's comeback hasn't happened, but from a nightlife perspective I dont recall us ever having as many options as we do now. Between the Landing, BG, Lit, Poppy Love Smoke, Burro, Dos Gatos & the Bay St bars it seems that our venue count is above a dozen for the first time in recent memory.

As far as the venues being as unique as they were in the past, I can't quite agree with that. It's been hard to match the vibe at the old Milk Bar, Moto Longe or even old wave night at 618/DV8/Milkdome

Those venues each probably drew larger crowds than the 2 or 3 of the current ones put together.

All I know is i have some video footage of my friends and I driving around in 2000 & 2001 on a weekend night downtown and aside from 618, all of the streets were deserted. At least now you get a little foot traffic between Forsyth Ocean and Bay.

I agree! The nightlife is has returned now. Not only downtown, but also in the urban core (springfield).

[urbanlibertarian]

In a Times-Union article by Bill Foley "Golden Age of Big Hotels Disappears" 02/22/98 he hints at a bit of the downtown bar scene after WW II.

http://jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/022298/met_2b1foley.html

Mostly the Seminole sparked a symbiosis that was strengthened one by one by the other grand hotels: the Burbridge with its big game trophies and Babe Hardy the engaging host; the Mason with its grand movie balls; the quiet majesty of the George Washington and its Air Base Lounge; the plush and imposing Carlton, that rare skyscraper built in the middle of a block.

They changed over the years. Downtown's cafe society came to know the Seminole for its Lamplighter Lounge. The Mason became the Mayflower, its rooftop the bastion of the Cavalettes. The GW (everybody called it the GW) changed its Air Base Lounge to the Rainbow Room. The Carlton became the Roosevelt, its Emerald Room and Pub girls local legend. The Burbridge segued to the workaday Floridan.

[urbanlibertarian]

Brack's Grill and Lounge 1949 location unknown:

[marksjax]

That is a great article and photo!
Thank you.

[Dog Walker]

 Does anyone else remember the Onyx Rail Bar on Bay Street?  It was gone before I was old enough to drink legally, but was a fixture when Bay Street still catered to the seamen from the cargo ships being unloaded on our working waterfront.  I think it was next door to Bennie's Seaman's Supply.  This is going back into the 40's and 50's bar scene.

Ever wonder why Maxwell House Coffee plant is located where it is?  It was because they had their own dock and warehouse where coffee was unloaded off the ships that brought it in.

[heights unknown]

O.K. all; being that I was virtually based out of Jacksonville (shore based) during my 20 year Navy Career (1974-1994), I used to frequent downtown quite often. Aside from the quarter X-rated arcades, there were bars downtown you could frequent or hang out from time to time. The one's I remember were:

R&R Bar - Was a bar but was also a female girlie/strip joint. When I first reported for duty in Jacksonville in 1974, I spent quite a lot of time at this place being that I was a hot, lusty 18 year old male. Ironically and incidentally, the bar called "French Quarter" was right upstairs over the R&R Lounge; in fact, a lot of the men that frequented "R&R" would go upstairs and take in a drag show or two on Fridays and Saturday nights, and yes, y'all are correct, the French Quarter was "off the chain." I only visited the French Quarter with a male Friend of mine who was in the Navy and who was also bisexual. But we had a lot of fun. Spent a lot of money at the old R&R Lounge.

Night Owl - Was a block or so from the R&R, can't remember what street, but it also was a female girlie bar/strip joint. Lot of Sailors hung out at this bar/strip club also. Spent a lot of money in the Night Owl.

Howards Bar - Another Girlie/Strip Joint near the River but was more upscale, a kind of Gentleman's Strip Joint and Club catering mostly to the businessmen who worked downtown. I didn't really like this bar very much as I was very young and the men who frequented it were middle age and old, and, not very many blacks back then frequented Howard's Bar. My preference for female strip action back then (we're talking 70's here) was R&R Lounge/Bar and the Night Owl.

Old Plantation Club - Was situated right where all of the spaghetti interchanges are leading into Riverside Drive near the Newspaper Company. This Club was gay yes, but a lot of Sailors and Straight Girls (fag hags they called them back in the day) also showed up and frequented this club. We used to make a killing scoring women in this gay bar! It opened I think around 1980 or 1981 and was ran by Don (can't remember last name) who now lives near me in Bradenton, Florida. This Bar was one of the premier gay bars in Florida when it first opened and sported four mirror balls in each corner overhead of the dance floor, in addition to a premier and state of the art lighting system for its time. I didn't frequent this bar very much, but when my friends and I got drunk enough, we'd go in, hang out with the girls that we knew that frequented the bar, and also got to know some really cool gay guys and lesbians!

Flamingo Bar - This Bar was located on Main Street in the middle of the block off of Duval Street where the back of the new Public Library is today. There was a hat store next to it on the northwest corner of Main and Duval right across from the old Bafano's Restaurant (also on the corner of Main and Duval but on the southeast corner). This Bar was my Favorite place to hangout! I was liberal back in the day and had all type of friends, and everyone and anyone came into this bar. On any given day, and especially at night and on the weekends this bar was filled with Bikers, Seedy but attractive females, female prostitutes, male prostitues, hustlers of every kind both male and female, Sailors, drag queens, transvetites, and straight people who wandered in and later stayed and became a part of the family. The Bar was ran by a Jewish Man everyone called Papa, and John the Bartender (he had blonde hair and was gay), and Jeannie and Louise (who was old but didn't take no sh** off nobody)! This Bar was off the chain and the gays and drag queens, on the weekend nights would leave at around 10:00 to go to the French Quarter, and everyone else who stayed was either straight, bisexual or straight and we would just have a fuc**** good time! The tore the Flamingo down in early 1985 and it stayed empty for a decade or more until they tore it down, and the lot stayed empty until the new library was built. One more thing, there was a liquor store next to it which was a part of the Flamingo. The Liquor Store was ran by "Papa" who owned the Flamingo.

Well, this is all I can remember right now. Y'all have learned quite a lot about me, and I hope Jacksonville through some of the memories I share of various things. And yes, I was young, wild, and willing to experience anything back in those days but it was just plain fun fun fun!!!!!!!!!!! Hope y'all enjoyed my post.

"HU"

[heights unknown]

The bar at the Ambassador was called the Downtowner Lounge, and it had three decades of popularity and local fame.

I forgot about the Ambassador Lounge; thanks Stephen for reminding me. I also frequented this bar as well. And, this bar kind of had the same spirit as the old Flamingo which was torn down in 1985, and then a lot of the old Flamingo crowd hung out at the Ambassador Lounge. Again, as with the old Flamingo, Ambassador Lounge also was frequented by all different types of people...Bikers, Hustlers, Prostitutes, Drag Queens, Transvetites, Gays, and of course the normal everyday straight crowd in which some didn't really like the idea of their bar being frequented by such a rought, raunchy and roughshod crowd. But on weekend nights, this bar was aflame and on fire!

"HU"