Jacksonville Second-Top Metro for Same-Sex Couples with Children

[Bativac]

I don't think opposing marriage equality makes you bigot.  But it does put you in the minority, at least as far as the latest opinion polls go.  Opposition to such marriages fall off at younger ages.  Demographics are destiny = marriage equality will be a reality within the next decade or two, tops, throughout the whole United States.

Because my generation and the younger generations before that grew up with our gay friends because we understand and love them.

This is the key to the social changes lies in the future generation.

-Josh

Not to be callous - but some of us don't "support" gay marriage so much as we don't think it's any of the government's business. It's basically a legal agreement between two consenting adults. The government should have no say-so in it, just as they should have no say-so in which race or ethnic group uses which water fountain, goes to which school, etc. We're not going to be marching in any parades or anything but we don't think it's the government's place to make it legal or illegal - it's two adults of sound mind entering an agreement and there should be no restrictions on it.

There is always going to be a large segment of the population who disagrees with homosexuality, who thinks it's wrong, disgusting, immoral, whatever - and that's fine. It's their right to think so. Just like it was my dead grandmother's right to hate black people. But the government should not have any distinctions in place between straight people, gay people, white people, black people, etc. and how those people decide to live.

I think a lot of us younger folks are a lot less inclined to get involved with people's personal lives. It's less "wave your freak flag high!!" and more "Who cares what those people are doing? Are they paying taxes? Then leave 'em alone!"

[wsansewjs]

I don't think opposing marriage equality makes you bigot.  But it does put you in the minority, at least as far as the latest opinion polls go.  Opposition to such marriages fall off at younger ages.  Demographics are destiny = marriage equality will be a reality within the next decade or two, tops, throughout the whole United States.

Because my generation and the younger generations before that grew up with our gay friends because we understand and love them.

This is the key to the social changes lies in the future generation.

-Josh

Not to be callous - but some of us don't "support" gay marriage so much as we don't think it's any of the government's business. It's basically a legal agreement between two consenting adults. The government should have no say-so in it, just as they should have no say-so in which race or ethnic group uses which water fountain, goes to which school, etc. We're not going to be marching in any parades or anything but we don't think it's the government's place to make it legal or illegal - it's two adults of sound mind entering an agreement and there should be no restrictions on it.

There is always going to be a large segment of the population who disagrees with homosexuality, who thinks it's wrong, disgusting, immoral, whatever - and that's fine. It's their right to think so. Just like it was my dead grandmother's right to hate black people. But the government should not have any distinctions in place between straight people, gay people, white people, black people, etc. and how those people decide to live.

I think a lot of us younger folks are a lot less inclined to get involved with people's personal lives. It's less "wave your freak flag high!!" and more "Who cares what those people are doing? Are they paying taxes? Then leave 'em alone!"

I never said anything about gay marriages. I was simply saying that the young generations are already accustomed and are already used to have their LGBT peers. When you have an entire generation completely influenced directly or indirectly, you already have a new social mold that is ready to push the old society out and put the new one in.

[KenFSU]

I don't think opposing marriage equality makes you bigot.  But it does put you in the minority, at least as far as the latest opinion polls go.  Opposition to such marriages fall off at younger ages.  Demographics are destiny = marriage equality will be a reality within the next decade or two, tops, throughout the whole United States.

Because my generation and the younger generations before that grew up with our gay friends because we understand and love them.

This is the key to the social changes lies in the future generation.

-Josh

Not to be callous - but some of us don't "support" gay marriage so much as we don't think it's any of the government's business. It's basically a legal agreement between two consenting adults. The government should have no say-so in it, just as they should have no say-so in which race or ethnic group uses which water fountain, goes to which school, etc. We're not going to be marching in any parades or anything but we don't think it's the government's place to make it legal or illegal - it's two adults of sound mind entering an agreement and there should be no restrictions on it.

There is always going to be a large segment of the population who disagrees with homosexuality, who thinks it's wrong, disgusting, immoral, whatever - and that's fine. It's their right to think so. Just like it was my dead grandmother's right to hate black people. But the government should not have any distinctions in place between straight people, gay people, white people, black people, etc. and how those people decide to live.

I think a lot of us younger folks are a lot less inclined to get involved with people's personal lives. It's less "wave your freak flag high!!" and more "Who cares what those people are doing? Are they paying taxes? Then leave 'em alone!"

Very well said.

Could not agree more.

[Tacachale]

Well, it is a formal study, and it does discuss those things. The great thing about it is that it challenges a lot of stereotypes about gay people and where they live (including the stereotypes you mention). It challenges the idea that gays are mostly white, well-to-do, and live mostly in "gay cities" in the Northeast or California.

I have never heard of these notions that the gay community is wealthy and white.  It's no secret that the AA community is less than friendly toward their own people if they are gay, but the big cities with large gay populations have extremely diverse gay scenes.  Don't get up to Atlanta or DC much, eh?  Also well to do?  Ironically for not raising kids there are a lot of less than well to do gay guys.  The only cities where I have heard of or met extremely wealthy gay men (who all know each other and travel with each other btw) are Miami/So FL, Atlanta to a smaller extent, New York, Chicago, and LA.  And believe it not the only major gay cities in the NE are New York, Philly, and DC.  Of course smaller coastal towns are very gay friendly and so is Providence, RI, but Boston and other cities aren't big with the gays.

And here in Atlanta which is still one of the largest gay cities (but shrinking), a lot of guys are moving to Chicago, DC, or New York.  I know only one guy who wants to downsize to Birmingham or Charleston, but the traditionally gay cities are growing their gay populations (all except for Atlanta I guess ) and the smaller cities have always exported their gay guys to the large gay cities.  There is no misunderstood notion that smaller cities don't have huge gay populations because they don't.  When you visit a large area and see that 40% of the people (guys and girls...though guys are more city and girls are more suburban) are gay, then you'll realize that you are in a real gay ghetto.  There are parts of Midtown Atlanta (like whole high rise buildings and housing sections where the population is 70-80% gay).  Gay restaurants, gay coffee shops, gay bars, gay clubs, gay spas, gay gyms, gay realties, gay doctors (my doctor that I see has a practice with 5 other doctors, including a woman, and they are all gay), gay everything.  When Jacksonville has a Pride attended by at least 100,000 people and the mayor and city council participate, then you can say a smaller city like Jacksonville has a large gay presence and embraces gay culture (or at least that side of it heh).

The stereotypes thing are what the NYT and the report said. At any rate it's clearly a misconception that gay people primarily live in "gay cities". There are of course cities with large gay communities, and that are gay-friendly, but not everyone lives in those places.

These statistics are specifically on gay couples raising families. It doesn't say that these cities have larger gay communities than other places do, only that within their gay communities, a higher percentage of them are raising children. That's another stereotype this report destroys - that gays are trying to undermine the traditional family. Hard to argue that, when a statistically significant number of them are raising families.

The report is clear that child-rearing by same-sex couples is significantly more common in the South than it is in other parts of the country, and that Jacksonville has a higher number than any other city besides San Antonio. The reasons for this aside, these families deserve the support of open-minded people in their communities.

[Bativac]

These statistics are specifically on gay couples raising families. It doesn't say that these cities have larger gay communities than other places do, only that within their gay communities, a higher percentage of them are raising children. That's another stereotype this report destroys - that gays are trying to undermine the traditional family. Hard to argue that, when a statistically significant number of them are raising families.

The report is clear that child-rearing by same-sex couples is significantly more common in the South than it is in other parts of the country, and that Jacksonville has a higher number than any other city besides San Antonio. The reasons for this aside, these families deserve the support of open-minded people in their communities.

I really think it's more common here for the same reasons I mentioned in my earlier post - live and let live.

I think more and more people - younger people, especially, but some older folks as well - are just less inclined to care what someone else is doing, as long as it's not hurting anyone. Two dudes are raising a kid? That's cool, are they maintaining their yard? Not playing loud music at 2 in the morning? Cool.

The media plays up the protests, and the pride parades, but I really think the vast majority of gay people are like the vast majority of everyone else - politically moderate and just wanting to live their lives and be left alone. That has something to do with why Jax is so high on this list, I think - Jacksonville is exactly the type of place where you can get a decent single family home at a fairly reasonable price and be left alone (as long as you maintain your yard and keep the music at a reasonable volume). People might whisper about you or crack jokes at your expense but they aren't (aside from a few busybodies) gonna rally the city council to "run them gays outa' town."

[duvaldude08]

Honestly Jacksonville have became alot more gay friendly than it was 20 years ago. You will always have you ignorant folks that make rude comments, but for the most part Jacksonville is very laid back and really dont care what the other person is doing. Now in the Afirican Amercian community its a different story. My culture preaches STRONGLY against homosexuality, thus making things a little worse for us. But even within our community, as I stated early, we are finally becoming more open mided to same sex relationships well.

[Jimmy]

duvaldude, I think you hit the nail on the head there.  To the extent possible, we need to encourage lgbt people of color to come out and be in dialogue with their faith leaders.  It is getting better, but there is a lot more potential there for increased tolerance and understanding.

[duvaldude08]

duvaldude, I think you hit the nail on the head there.  To the extent possible, we need to encourage lgbt people of color to come out and be in dialogue with their faith leaders.  It is getting better, but there is a lot more potential there for increased tolerance and understanding.

I totally agree. I think sometimes Christians take th wrong approach. I been a devoted chrisitian my entire life, however I do NOT agree with alot of things. We tend to preach AT people and tell them what they are doing wrong, and that they are going to hell. Versus embracing and letting them know that they are loved, and show them the right way. Even if they decide not to change, atleast there is not any tension or divison amoungst us. At the end of the day, we have to life on this earth together, why not make it a pleasent experience?

[Tacachale]

Religious conservatives are going to have to get used to being in the minority on this one.

Not sure if them's the facts, Ma'am.

I also don't think it is relevant whether the majority of people believes in equal protection under the law.

It would be nice to get more people on board with that particular notion, however.

Them's the facts already; they're already in the minority on this issue. Currently more people are in favor of recognizing same-sex unions than are against it, and the number grows every year, especially among the younger generation. The two sides are close now, but ten years down the road, that won't be the picture. That combined with the fact that the Supreme Court is going to have to weigh in on the states' anti-gay-marriage amendments and the Defense of Marriage Act sooner or later, it's a hard rain a gonna fall.

[buckethead]

That's the definition for "progressive"!

And that^ is the definition of idiotic.

This is the definition of progressive: favoring or advocating progress,  change, improvement, or reform, as opposed to wishing to maintain things as they are, especially in political matters

Conservative, by definition: disposed to preserve existing conditions, institutions, etc., or to restore traditional ones, and to limit change

One embraces change and difference, one does not. You simply have it backwards. Variety is the spice of life.

Progressiveâ€"noun
a person who is intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.

See!

Another word to add to the repertiore: Misnomer

[ChriswUfGator]

I don't think opposing marriage equality makes you bigot.

I disagree.

[ChriswUfGator]

I don't think opposing marriage equality makes you bigot.  But it does put you in the minority, at least as far as the latest opinion polls go.  Opposition to such marriages fall off at younger ages.  Demographics are destiny = marriage equality will be a reality within the next decade or two, tops, throughout the whole United States.

Because my generation and the younger generations before that grew up with our gay friends because we understand and love them.

This is the key to the social changes lies in the future generation.

-Josh

Not to be callous - but some of us don't "support" gay marriage so much as we don't think it's any of the government's business. It's basically a legal agreement between two consenting adults. The government should have no say-so in it, just as they should have no say-so in which race or ethnic group uses which water fountain, goes to which school, etc. We're not going to be marching in any parades or anything but we don't think it's the government's place to make it legal or illegal - it's two adults of sound mind entering an agreement and there should be no restrictions on it.

There is always going to be a large segment of the population who disagrees with homosexuality, who thinks it's wrong, disgusting, immoral, whatever - and that's fine. It's their right to think so. Just like it was my dead grandmother's right to hate black people. But the government should not have any distinctions in place between straight people, gay people, white people, black people, etc. and how those people decide to live.

I think a lot of us younger folks are a lot less inclined to get involved with people's personal lives. It's less "wave your freak flag high!!" and more "Who cares what those people are doing? Are they paying taxes? Then leave 'em alone!"

Very well said.

Could not agree more.

That logic unfortunately fails when one considers that government already has something to do with it, and that this is about removing barriers already in place, rather than creating new ones. Last I heard the Defense of Marriage Act wasn't a reflection of the government's earnest and sincere desire to stay out of the institution of marriage. Reality being what it is, opposing gay marriage on psuedo-nonsensical libertarian grounds, when what people want in the first place is government barriers removed, is nothing more than thinly justified bigotry.

But you've also thrown in a dash of the "civil union" argument as well. I would point out that this is hardly the first time we've tried a "separate but equal" strategy in this country in an attempt to resolve bigotry, and the universal result has been failure. If it's separate or different, then how can it be equal. There is a SCOTUS opinion on this exact point.

[Garden guy]

I find the staight community that is against gays are just lost and cant look in the mirror...my partner and i have just past 12 years and so many of our straight friends were married had children and married again...so until staight people lea rn how to stay together they should keep thier mouths shut when it comes to gays. The staight people of america needs  to keep their mouths shut until divorce rates drop...most couples can't stay together for 4 years....personally i'm not in it only when times are good...i'm in it for good. Find a mate...stick to it...it's not hard...just remember.."the world does not revolve around you"...that my marriage motto...it's about we not me...it works.

[Tacachale]

I don't think opposing marriage equality makes you bigot.  But it does put you in the minority, at least as far as the latest opinion polls go.  Opposition to such marriages fall off at younger ages.  Demographics are destiny = marriage equality will be a reality within the next decade or two, tops, throughout the whole United States.

Because my generation and the younger generations before that grew up with our gay friends because we understand and love them.

This is the key to the social changes lies in the future generation.

-Josh

Not to be callous - but some of us don't "support" gay marriage so much as we don't think it's any of the government's business. It's basically a legal agreement between two consenting adults. The government should have no say-so in it, just as they should have no say-so in which race or ethnic group uses which water fountain, goes to which school, etc. We're not going to be marching in any parades or anything but we don't think it's the government's place to make it legal or illegal - it's two adults of sound mind entering an agreement and there should be no restrictions on it.

There is always going to be a large segment of the population who disagrees with homosexuality, who thinks it's wrong, disgusting, immoral, whatever - and that's fine. It's their right to think so. Just like it was my dead grandmother's right to hate black people. But the government should not have any distinctions in place between straight people, gay people, white people, black people, etc. and how those people decide to live.

I think a lot of us younger folks are a lot less inclined to get involved with people's personal lives. It's less "wave your freak flag high!!" and more "Who cares what those people are doing? Are they paying taxes? Then leave 'em alone!"

Very well said.

Could not agree more.

That logic unfortunately fails when one considers that government already has something to do with it, and that this is about removing barriers already in place, rather than creating new ones. Last I heard the Defense of Marriage Act wasn't a reflection of the government's earnest and sincere desire to stay out of the institution of marriage. Reality being what it is, opposing gay marriage on psuedo-nonsensical libertarian grounds, when what people want in the first place is government barriers removed, is nothing more than thinly justified bigotry.

But you've also thrown in a dash of the "civil union" argument as well. I would point out that this is hardly the first time we've tried a "separate but equal" strategy in this country in an attempt to resolve bigotry, and the universal result has been failure. If it's separate or different, then how can it be equal. There is a SCOTUS opinion on this exact point.

Excellent points. It's a nice thought to say "it's none of the government's business" to be involved with marriage, but in reality they are involved already, in issuing or recognizing marriage licenses, and in many cases, passing laws to avoid having to recognize some such licenses. There's a big step between simply feeling that it's not the government's business, and doing something about it.