Is Jacksonville Dangerous By Design?

[Dashing Dan]

If you try to cross a major road in this area on foot, be sure to use the pedestrian activation button.  Otherwise the light will turn red on you before you are finished crossing.

I should've known that but I didn't.   It came up at a meeting of the Bicycle Pedestrian Advisory Committee (BPAC). 

[ChriswUfGator]

Most of the buttons in Jacksonville are actually disconnected, or programmed to do nothing at all. I often walk in my neighborhood (Riverside) and it is just as fast to wait on the next light cycle most of the time as to push the button. They are placebos, nothing more. And not even good ones, since everyone knows what's up and jaywalks.

[Dashing Dan]

Somebody should check this out.  If you're right then changes will need to be made.

[ChriswUfGator]

There are some that work, for sure. The pedestrian light at the Cummer is instant, the two lights on Oak Street work with the buttons. But with those exceptions, I can't think of any other lights in Riverside that have a working button. The Margaret / Riverside Ave. button doesn't do anything. Neither does Cherry / Park, Park & King, or Park / Margaret.

[Fallen Buckeye]

I think there's not even a button on one of corners to cross Park at Cherry, and that's by a school and a library for crying out loud.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

There are some that work, for sure. The pedestrian light at the Cummer is instant, the two lights on Oak Street work with the buttons. But with those exceptions, I can't think of any other lights in Riverside that have a working button. The Margaret / Riverside Ave. button doesn't do anything. Neither does Cherry / Park, Park & King, or Park / Margaret.

Yeah, but are they programmed for pedestrians, or do they just hold the red light longer for crossing?  We don't know that, but that's why DD mentioned it across 6 lane thoroughfares. 

Although, I like placebos.  They always make me feel better without the side-effects.

[Dashing Dan]

The ped buttons are supposed to keep the green light on long enough for a pedestrian to get all the way across.

Otherwise the minimum green time is set for the number of vehicles that are either expected to cross (preset) or that actually do cross (actuated), which is often much less time than it would take for a single pedestrian to cover the same distance.

In many cases one of the crosswalks is missing.   That's to free up more time for vehicles to turn left.  If you don't have a crosswalk then you are supposed to cross the street more than once in order to get from where you are to where you want to be.

Add in the distances between intersections on heavily traveled roads and streets, and it becomes more and more likely that pedestrians will engage in unsafe behaviors, thus helping to put our fair city at the #3 spot on the list of cities that are "dangerous by design" for pedestrians.

[L.P. Hovercraft]

Something I experienced over the weekend that typifies the prevailing local attitude towards automobiles, bicyclists, and pedestrians: I rode my bike downtown this past Sunday afternoon for the Jazz festival.  I was over by Chamblin's Uptown riding behind another bicyclist and amidst a ton of pedestrians, looking for something to lock my bike up to.  A car was slowly driving down the street towards us, when a JSO officer, who was standing at the intersection but not really directing traffic, yelled out to the rider in front of me, myself, and several pedestrians in the street, "You need to yield to the automobile, please.  Autos always have the right of way." 
I know he was just looking out for our physical safety, but I just thought that was an odd thing to say.  Physics aside, shouldn't pedestrians always have the right of way?  Particularly during a major street festival?!? 

[Dashing Dan]

In the situation you described the officer was incorrect.  Regarding the relative rights of motorists, bicyclists and pedestrians, the JSO is working on its own internal re-education program, but they still have a lot of work to do.

[urbaknight]

Something I experienced over the weekend that typifies the prevailing local attitude towards automobiles, bicyclists, and pedestrians: I rode my bike downtown this past Sunday afternoon for the Jazz festival.  I was over by Chamblin's Uptown riding behind another bicyclist and amidst a ton of pedestrians, looking for something to lock my bike up to.  A car was slowly driving down the street towards us, when a JSO officer, who was standing at the intersection but not really directing traffic, yelled out to the rider in front of me, myself, and several pedestrians in the street, "You need to yield to the automobile, please.  Autos always have the right of way." 
I know he was just looking out for our physical safety, but I just thought that was an odd thing to say.  Physics aside, shouldn't pedestrians always have the right of way?  Particularly during a major street festival?!? 

They do in the Northeast! And they're very strict about it. If a pedestrian gets hit by a car, the driver is almost always prosecuted or at least lose their licences or get a hefty fine, plus whatever the victim decides to do. They can get a lot of money out of the driver.

To make another point about my earlier post about the South being bad drivers, much of that bad driving exists because laws are very laxed when it comes to holding careless drivers accountable. The rednecks that run things love big muscle trucks and cars in general. They figure, they're bigger, faster and stronger than a person on foot or a bicyclist, so they automatically get the right of way, every time.

That's what needs to change, we need to force our law makers to get serious about this problem; And start cracking down on the things drivers are allowed to do.

[Dashing Dan]

More pedestrians die in Florida because more of Florida's roads are dangerous for pedestrians.

From Dangerous by Design 2011: Florida:

Florida's overall Pedestrian Danger Index (PDI) of 182.8 ranks 1st nationally, ...
...
Most pedestrians are killed on the wider, higher capacity and high-speed arterials.  
 ...
A recent NHTSA report on pedestrian safety finds that a pedestrian is 16 times more likely to be killed in a crash occuring on a road with a posted speed limit of 50 mph or higher, than on a road with a speed limit of under 30 mph.

[Jumpinjack]

Not to excuse bad drivers or careless ones, but what this report is saying is that the design of our roads is a death design for pedestrians because at some point most people have to walk. The elderly and children walk, and low income families without access to cars walk, more people than ever are walking to work.   

Just like Dan said above: it's about wide multi-lane, high speed roads designed to move cars rapidly and coincidentally kill pedestrians.

[urbaknight]

Thank you Dashing Dan, for telling me about the Bicycle and Pedestrian Advisory Committee. I was there and it seems like a great group of people with useful insights. I was also pleasantly surprised to see none other than Don Redman in attendance. I'm glad to see someone in city council take up such a cause. And if he won't help us utilize the Shipyards, then at least he's involved in another very important component relating to our quality of life here in JAX. Hats off to Redman for choosing this cause!

[Dashing Dan]

Urbaknight, you are very welcome!  On behalf of pedestrians and bicyclists in Jacksonville, we made a lot of progress yesterday.

Our next meeting will be at 5:30 pm, on Thursday July 7.

The location will again be the Lynwood Roberts Room of the Jacksonville City Hall.

We've promised to limit our next meeting to one hour, with a more informal gathering immediately afterwards.  

I anticipate that the informal gathering will be at The Burrito Gallery, starting at around 6:45 or 7:00.

[Garden guy]

There never has been a design for Jacksonville...building permits galore...just ask..you can build anything anywhere if only  you have to have enough money and pull...the conservative good ole boy system in this city has had no clear dream for our city and it shows...pedestrian deaths a plenty...what sidewalks?...Of course we can walk 2 miles to the next bus stop..it's nuts...and we call ourselves a metropolitan city..but maybe with some forward thinking people on council something might happen but there are so many doubts.