JTA making progress on transportation center

[Ralph W]

Why would COJ unload a parcel of land so far from the transportation center, effectively marginalizing Greyhound?

Looking at the maps, JTA already owns the parcels the Skyway station sits on, as well as most of the long block  between Johnson, Forsyth, Houston and W. Monroe, with FDOT owning the parcels on the west end while COJ owns the entire block east of Johnson.

Visuals show the above are undeveloped or parking lots.

Somebody, if they are paying attention, could come up with a better plan to consolidate the usage a little better.

What does the city gain from JTA with this arrangement?

[fsujax]

maybe the JTa could actually issue an RFP to create a real TOD.

[Charles Hunter]

Isn't this a block closer to the Transportation Center then the original plan for Greyhound?  I thought it had been penciled in north of Adams?  This block was going to be just the JTA bus terminal, now, it sounds like the JTA and Greyhound terminals will be on the same block.  Of course, there seems to be nothing preventing Greyhound from being on the JTA office building site, right next to the Skyway.

[duvaldude08]

Ok here we go. Here is the initial post. Lets check out the maps.

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2008-jan-the-jacksonville-regional-transportation-center

The way this article reads is that it will be "one of the parcels of land." So lets just hope a redesign is in the works. (I pray)

http://jacksonville.com/opinion/blog/400669/larry-hannan/2011-05-24/peyton-wants-give-jta-land-around-prime-osborn-regional

[Ocklawaha]

Any man can make mistakes, but only an idiot persists in his error.
Marcus Tullius Cicero

This photo is PROOF that God made fools just for practice and then he created FDOT.

If we don't throttle the designer that doesn't understand a transportation center is just that... a center of transportation, IE: a location, a place, or a station, we're in deep trouble again. Looking at that walk from a train station to a bus station (Up 2 flights of stairs, down 2 flights of stairs, and a 6-8 city block walk across busy avenues a couple of which are freeway ramps) it made me recall that here are reasons why some species eat their young. After studying the Transportation Neighborhood (it's not a center) plans I'm convinced that some poor mother or father missed an opportunity.

Never ever, ever, ever, give the car keys to someone who is under the influence, and baby don't ever give up the drivers seat locally to FDOT or JTA. FACT, if Jacksonville fell into the sea tomorrow at 3 a.m. NOBODY IN TALLAHASSEE WOULD CARE and NOBODY IN CENTRAL OR SOUTH FLORIDA WOULD EVEN READ ABOUT IT. Both FDOT and JTA are state agency's in a state dedicated to the very cutting edge of transportation, as long as you live south of an invisible line that crosses the state near Orlando... "Say they've got a few bricks left... hey we could build something in Jacksonville". You know the drill... Invest your time and tax dollars in an agency that any idiot could run - because it's just a matter of time and you'll have your idiot.

Current State of the City?

MOBILITY PLAN  YES

PROGRESSIVE MAYOR   YES

JRTC       APOCALYPTIC

OCKLAWAHA

[Ocklawaha]

OCKLAWAHA

[Timkin]

Ock ...the above Photo of the train approaching the Lee St Viaduct is just priceless   Made it my new background pic

[dougskiles]

Perhaps with a city donation of land, there will come with it some way to influence the design?  The council has to vote on it, and they could put some stipulations on it, could they not?  Like, make better use of the land, make it more compact, etc.

[exnewsman]

What does the city gain from JTA with this arrangement?

They don't put up the $5M in cash they had previously agreed to pay towards the project. They give up about $3-4M in land value instead.

[Ocklawaha]

Doug, even if they could do something out of this world, say, rebuild the Taj Mahal and serve it with lightning fast flying saucers, the idea of building desperate stations for each mode is WRONG. At the very least, combine the main terminal to handle Amtrak and ALL INTERCITY BUS LINES in the main terminal, then tuck the Skyway and municipal transit snug against it.

I hope the politico's that read this site will get one thing from my online, sarcastic play, and here it is...

"NO MATTER WHAT THEY BUILD - OR - HOW THEY BUILD IT
UNLESS IT'S ALL CONSOLIDATED UNDER ONE ROOF IT'S WRONG!"  

All we can do is explain the value of that lot where they want to build the "new Greyhound Station" as a prime location for Howard Johnson's, Holiday Inn, Best Western, IHOP, Denny's and Outback Steakhouse. Tax paying ventures that will naturally cluster around a properly designed terminal.

I find very little fault with the actual buildings in their plan with the exception of an unneeded "Greyhound" station (just that name implies they don't understand a unified terminal) and the railroad station with it's unsightly overhead concourses and wart like growth bulging from the side of the 1919 station.

This is a matter that needs our activism and feverish prayers. Otherwise we are going to allow them to create a completely dysfunctional transportation zoo rather then a compact aquarium.

OCKLAWAHA

[acme54321]

The convention center needs to go (somewhere else).

[urbanlibertarian]

Playing devil's (JTA) advocate here, I'm guessing that making the center more compact would be more expensive.  Since the land is already government owned it's the cheapest part of the project.  So if they lower the construction costs by spreading it out over 4 blocks they need less money and probably get it done more quickly.

[Ralph W]

Would it be wrong to suggest that if the city wants to give away certain land parcels that they give the land to NEW businesses, such as the hotels and supportive businesses that will want to be close to a compact transportation center?

That land that the terminal currently occupies, including the add-on of the convention center, and the section the skyway occupies, as well as the huge strip of land already owned by JTA, FDOT and COJ north of Forsyth, should be used to accommodate all the rolling stock. Parking should be moved to the perimeter of the area and trams or shuttles of some kind could be used to move the people between parking, transportation and hotels. Heaven forbid that someone would have to walk in the elements to get to a destination.

During construction, there could be provision for connecting tunnels between locations either for walking, moving walkways or a mini-subway. If the abandoned tunnels at the terminal were sufficient in the day and can be reopened, then there should be no dispute about the viability of additional tunnels between modes of transportation and other services. Check out the threads about the tunnels already under Jacksonville.

While we're in the dreaming stage, think about the subterranean shops that could be incorporated into a tunnel system. Why not increase the potential for the land rather than just stick buildings and parking lots on the surface. Some of that rolling stock could also go underground, freeing surface area for whatever.

[Ocklawaha]

The Terminal(s) according to JTA and FDOT      The Terminal according to Ock and Lakelander

Actually no, since we did not do anything but scoot the buildings closer together and a compact arrangement on the MJ plan, it should be considerably less money.

OCKLAWAHA

[acme54321]

They sould include no parking for JTA employees at the new headquarters building they want.  Make them ride the skyway from the King's Ave garage