The Apple in your hand was produced by Chinese Slaves.

[BridgeTroll]

Me too...

[BridgeTroll]

The silence of all you Apple users is positively deafening!

[dougskiles]

Does anyone think that products made for any of the other electronics companies are produced in conditions significantly different than Apple's?

Or is it because the stereotypical Apple-user drives around with a mac sticker on one side of the car and a 'save the planet' sticker on the other side?  I suppose the point here is to identify the inconsistencies.

[BridgeTroll]

You should see a doctor about that... it seems to be happening more and more.  I am getting worried about you.  Not anti union and never have been.  I certainly do not approve of the labor conditions of those producing the Apple products so adored by so many in this country.  Are those phones sticky when you open the box?

[BridgeTroll]

The "penalty" I support for undocumented aliens is deportation.  I suppose you consider it harsh... I see it as pretty lenient.  I would secure the border to stop the flow of undocumented workers... and allow a system of documented workers to work in this country.  We have discussed this often.

If you are referring to public or government unions... then yes... I have certain issues with them.

You mention...

we allowed so many Corporations to relocate plants

Are you saying the government should force Corps to stay?  How should we have stopped them?

Didn't really save that much money in the long run, but managed to export the jobs elsewhere.

Germany and Japan "exported" jobs here.  I wonder if they saved money?

[BridgeTroll]

Off the mark again!  Some counseling may be in order Stephen.  I am sure the Chinese are happy you are promoting their products...

[BridgeTroll]

Off the mark again!  Some counseling may be in order Stephen.  I am sure the Chinese are happy you are promoting their products...

Ah.  The cake doesnt taste so good after youve already eaten it does it?

Sorry man, but you cant be anti immigrant, anti labor and still complain about chinese working conditions.

Its like being against sex education, contraception and family planning, but then getting pissed about unwanted pregnancies.

One thing leads to another.

I might agree with you if I was actually anti immigrant and anti labor.  Since I am neither your analysis is wrong.  I am clearly pro immigrant and pro labor.

[BridgeTroll]

yes.  Like George Lincoln Rockwell was pro Israel, and Phyllis Schlaeffly is pro lesbian.

The above quote perfectly describes your position regarding immigration.

BTW... Schlafly.

[BridgeTroll]

BTW... Schlafly.

much obliged

I try to be helpful.

[cityimrov]

Stephen & BT, you both produced an interesting discussion on immigration & labor in not only this thread but other threads.  Which comes to the question that really matters, what do you think the chances are that any of your ideas will be implemented in the real world? 

Right now, our society is so tied into cheap labor that getting out of it will be extremely difficult.  Not only that, since our wages are declining every year (which most people don't realize), cheap labor has been used to "mask" our buying power.  This basically means if we all of a sudden go to non-cheap labor, the people who are complaining about the increase in prices of various stuff now are going to go into shock or something.  Maybe even riot or something? 

What is a realistic solution that our politicians will implement and our society will be willing to accept?  What is the way out of this situation? 

Or is the only way out to wait for another painful giant crash and pick up the pieces just to get something done?  If the system collapses, I think people are willing to accept any option but for now, I'm not sure people are willing to accept the realistic options on the table.  I mean, look at what happened to health care... something that concerned them directly!  This issue concerns other people!  People who they will probably never meet or see in their entire lives  (except those in the service industry)!

[BridgeTroll]

Stephens responce is interesting... but flawed.

The national distribution system relies on cheap labor in order to compensate for the rising price of oil.

We have been relying on cheap labor long before the rising price of oil became an issue.  Cheap labor is cheap labor.  So while the imaginary numbers are interesting and certainly have bearing on increasing prices for products...

My issue with regards to cheap labor is the illegal immigration issue.  Current US policy actually encourages sneaking over the border, taking jobs from Americans and legal immigrants, and sending the fruits of labor back across the border... while the owners of farms and businesses pay slave wages and provide inhumane working conditions.

These discussions about immigration as they are currently constructed are race/cultural based at their heart. I have found that the people most passionate about the issues of immigration are usually either bigots or nationalists and do not really care at all about the underlying economic issue.

This is simply false.  Of course there are bigots who attach themselves to this issue... but to equate those who are actually interested in fixing this broken system with bigots is to attempt to evade and derail constructive discussion to fix a broken system.

Here is a link to a serious proposal of mine to provide a "win, win, win" scenario for everyone...

The Bracero program adhered to the most basic economic principle of supply and demand.  It exploited the bountiful supply of willing Mexican labor, offered Mexican nationals a chance to improve their buying power, relieved the Mexican government of excess workers and met U.S. farmers' great demand for inexpensive labor.  This flexibility and mobility of labor created an undisputed world leader in the market, justifying and prolonging the U.S. agriculture-Mexican labor relationship.

http://www1.american.edu/ted/bracero.htm

Below is the Metro Jax link...  read it.  Check out the links.

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,8733.0.html

[pwhitford]

From Electronics to Frozen Veggies - its endemic! And I look directly to the US Corporations who are profiting from this, either by being knowingly complicit or the benign negligent of turning a blind eye to the obvious.   

Whole Foods Lawsuit Over Chinese Frozen Vegetables Can Proceed in Florida
By Susannah Nesmith - Apr 21, 2011 3:35 PM ET
l
A Florida judge allowed a lawsuit to proceed that claims Whole Foods Market Inc. (WFMI) violated the state’s deceptive trade-practices law by selling frozen vegetables from China grown in a polluted region by prisoners and certified as organic.

Miami-Dade County Circuit Judge Amy Steele Donner yesterday denied the grocery chain’s motion to dismiss the suit filed on behalf of the Southeast Consumer Alliance Inc., a non-profit organization based in Boca Raton, Florida.

The suit claims that Whole Foods knew that its Silver River supplier, based in the Chinese province of Zhejiang, was actually a front company for a network of farms where Chinese prisoners are forced to work and that the farms are irrigated from a highly polluted river.

The suit also claims that Austin, Texas-based Whole Foods knew that the company providing the initial organic certification is owned by the Chinese government, which also owns the farms, creating a conflict of interest.

“They’re doing everything they can to conceal this bogus or shaky certification,” Bruce Baldwin, the group’s attorney, said. “Whole Foods brags about its social accountability audits of all of its foreign suppliers. So either they knew about these forced labor camps, or they didn’t actually check.”

A spokeswoman for the grocery store chain didn’t immediately return a phone call seeking comment. Whole Foods attorney Christopher Wayne Wadsworth said he wasn’t authorized to comment on the case.

In court filings, Wadsworth argued that the suit “amounts to little more than an unsupported slur against China’s farming industry and a meritless attack on Whole Foods stated corporate values and goals.”

Baldwin said Whole Foods pulled many of its Chinese frozen vegetables off the shelves after he filed the suit but that the company continues to sell Chinese soy beans. The case, which is seeking class-action, or group, certification, was originally filed in 2009 and amended last year to include the deceptive trade practices claim.

To back up his claims, Baldwin filed exhibits of news reports about forced labor and pollution in China.

The case is Southern Consumer Alliance Inc. v. Whole Foods Market Inc., 09-cv-92727CA, Miami-Dade County Circuit Court (Miami).

[JeffreyS]

Well Tariffs have gone from an average of 23% when Regan took office to about 2% now. So now when a rich investor/ producer wants to "trickle down" his or her money they do so where it is cheaper to produce.

We need to get from a free trade Regan/Clinton model back to a more Hamiltonian Fair Trade model.

btw I know Clinton has expressed regret over his free trade agreements but that does not mean squat to me.

[redglittercoffin]

I LOOOOVE my iPhone, my macbook, and my wife's macbook. 

I love it even more knowing that the people that build it have a LOWER suicide rate than those who live in the same city but do not work in the factory. 

I also love it more because those people that build it also make more money than the average worker in that city. 

Not only do I get a great product, but I get to feel morally superior!  --- now I can fit in with a lot of you folks around here.

[acme54321]

I LOOOOVE my iPhone, my macbook, and my wife's macbook. 

I love it even more knowing that the people that build it have a LOWER suicide rate than those who live in the same city but do not work in the factory. 

I also love it more because those people that build it also make more money than the average worker in that city. 

Not only do I get a great product, but I get to feel morally superior!  --- now I can fit in with a lot of you folks around here.