CNN Reporting Bin Laden is dead

[KenFSU]

Even though he is likely dead, you still have to ask yourself who really won in the end. Funny how you never hear a word about the below.

http://articles.cnn.com/2004-11-01/world/binladen.tape_1_al-jazeera-qaeda-bin?_s=PM:WORLD

CNN - Bin Laden: Goal is to bankrupt U.S.
November 01, 2004

The Arabic-language network Al-Jazeera released a full transcript Monday of the most recent videotape from Osama bin Laden in which the head of al Qaeda said his group's goal is to force America into bankruptcy.

"We are continuing this policy in bleeding America to the point of bankruptcy. Allah willing, and nothing is too great for Allah," bin Laden said in the transcript.

He said the mujahedeen fighters did the same thing to the Soviet Union in Afghanistan in the 1980s, "using guerrilla warfare and the war of attrition to fight tyrannical superpowers."
"We, alongside the mujahedeen, bled Russia for 10 years until it went bankrupt and was forced to withdraw in defeat," bin Laden said.

He also said al Qaeda has found it "easy for us to provoke and bait this administration."
"All that we have to do is to send two mujahedeen to the furthest point east to raise a piece of cloth on which is written al Qaeda, in order to make generals race there to cause America to suffer human, economic and political losses without their achieving anything of note other than some benefits for their private corporations," bin Laden said.

As part of the "bleed-until-bankruptcy plan," bin Laden cited a British estimate that it cost al Qaeda about $500,000 to carry out the attacks of September 11, 2001, an amount that he said paled in comparison with the costs incurred by the United States.

"Every dollar of al Qaeda defeated a million dollars, by the permission of Allah, besides the loss of a huge number of jobs," he said. "As for the economic deficit, it has reached record astronomical numbers estimated to total more than a trillion dollars.

The total U.S. national debt is more than $7 trillion (Ken note: $15 trillion now). The U.S. federal deficit was $413 billion in 2004, according to the Treasury Department.

"It is true that this shows that al Qaeda has gained, but on the other hand it shows that the Bush administration has also gained, something that anyone who looks at the size of the contracts acquired by the shady Bush administration-linked mega-corporations, like Halliburton and its kind, will be convinced.

"And it all shows that the real loser is you," he said. "It is the American people and their economy."

U.S. government officials said Friday that the tape appeared to be authentic and recently made. It was the first videotaped message from the al Qaeda leader in nearly three years.

[ben says]

Even though he is likely dead, you still have to ask yourself who really won in the end. Funny how you never hear a word about the below.

http://articles.cnn.com/2004-11-01/world/binladen.tape_1_al-jazeera-qaeda-bin?_s=PM:WORLD

CNN - Bin Laden: Goal is to bankrupt U.S.
November 01, 2004

The Arabic-language network Al-Jazeera released a full transcript Monday of the most recent videotape from Osama bin Laden in which the head of al Qaeda said his group's goal is to force America into bankruptcy.

"We are continuing this policy in bleeding America to the point of bankruptcy. Allah willing, and nothing is too great for Allah," bin Laden said in the transcript.

He said the mujahedeen fighters did the same thing to the Soviet Union in Afghanistan in the 1980s, "using guerrilla warfare and the war of attrition to fight tyrannical superpowers."
"We, alongside the mujahedeen, bled Russia for 10 years until it went bankrupt and was forced to withdraw in defeat," bin Laden said.

He also said al Qaeda has found it "easy for us to provoke and bait this administration."
"All that we have to do is to send two mujahedeen to the furthest point east to raise a piece of cloth on which is written al Qaeda, in order to make generals race there to cause America to suffer human, economic and political losses without their achieving anything of note other than some benefits for their private corporations," bin Laden said.

As part of the "bleed-until-bankruptcy plan," bin Laden cited a British estimate that it cost al Qaeda about $500,000 to carry out the attacks of September 11, 2001, an amount that he said paled in comparison with the costs incurred by the United States.

"Every dollar of al Qaeda defeated a million dollars, by the permission of Allah, besides the loss of a huge number of jobs," he said. "As for the economic deficit, it has reached record astronomical numbers estimated to total more than a trillion dollars.

The total U.S. national debt is more than $7 trillion (Ken note: $15 trillion now). The U.S. federal deficit was $413 billion in 2004, according to the Treasury Department.

"It is true that this shows that al Qaeda has gained, but on the other hand it shows that the Bush administration has also gained, something that anyone who looks at the size of the contracts acquired by the shady Bush administration-linked mega-corporations, like Halliburton and its kind, will be convinced.

"And it all shows that the real loser is you," he said. "It is the American people and their economy."

U.S. government officials said Friday that the tape appeared to be authentic and recently made. It was the first videotaped message from the al Qaeda leader in nearly three years.

WE certainly didn't win much....2 wars, 1.3 trillion dollars later....terrorized half the world's population, and I guarantee, created a whole new generation of US-hating, intolerant freedom fighters.

[BridgeTroll]

Perspective from Pakistan...

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia/2011/05/201152102627169176.html

Bin Laden death: Views from Pakistan 

While Americans breathe sigh of relief, many Pakistanis are apprehensive of the future after al-Qaeda leader's death.
Sunniya Pirzada Last Modified: 02 May 2011 11:46

Years on the run before finally being killed by the US forces - that is how Osama bin Laden met his end but the interest in his story will not wane easily - and definitely not in Pakistan, the country where he was killed.

To the surprise of many, he was not found in the lawless tribal region of Pakistan where he was believed to have been hiding but in a compound in an upscale and busy part of Pakistan's garrison city of Abbottabad - home to its military academy - and about 60km from Pakistan's capital, Islamabad.

And then the reports that his body has already been buried at sea, which the US authorities say has been done according to the Islamic Sharia Law, has raised many eyebrows in Pakistan.

Speaking to Al Jazeera, General Hameed Gul, the former head of Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), said that "We knew all along that it (the war on terror) will eventually come to Pakistan".

"And now with this incident, they have the reason to justify what they have been saying all along that there are al-Qaeda operatives in Pakistan.

"Pakistan has been the target of this so-called 'war on terror'which began in Afghanistan, then was taken to Iraq and finally has come to Pakistan.

"The anti-Pakistan lobby can now say 'go for Pakistan'â€" they knew that they couldn' go against a nuclear Pakistan so the best way forward was to create internal problems and then ultimately come up with the stance that Pakistan’s nukes were not in safe hands."

The surprise factor

For many like Khurshid Kasuri, Pakistan's former foreign minister, the news has come as a surprise. He told Al Jazeera that "the news has surprised the entire world but it is not surprising that he was still alive.

"When I was foreign minister (2002 - 2007), there was incorrect information about Osama bin Laden's arrest â€" it turned out that a lookalike had been arrested.

"Again it is not surprising that he was not found in the tribal region, there had been rumours circulating that he was living in Karachi because he needed medical care.

"I myself read reports which clearly stated that he was not in the tribal region so it is not a surprise that they found him in a city.

'Political win'

Many Pakistanis believe that they have paid a heavy price for the "war on terror" being waged by the US.

Shahzad Chaudhry, former air vice marshal Pakistan Air Force, said: "We may ignore for a second if Pakistanis agree with the war or not, but we cannot ignore the fact that the government and armed forces have been heavily involved in this war.

"It is a massive political win for the US. And [president Barack] Obama will now be able to implement his Afghan withdrawal plan very easily.

And then there are doubts about the operation having been 'managed' as Gul said, "There is a big question mark over the timing â€" Obama can now say Mission Accomplished! And his re-election campaign will get a tremendous boost."

Speaking on Pakistan's Geo News TV channel, General Pervez Musharraf, former Pakistani president, said that "I do not believe the conspiracy theories that it has been managed."

"Incidentally, it has happened at a time when it will definitely benefit Obama. But it will be a crucial mistake on the part of US if they believe that the war on terror is over - that is not the case, a battle has been won but the war continues.

"So they shouldn’t think that it is alright to just wrap up and leave, that will be a huge mistake.

Pakistan role?

President Obama, in his announcement of bin Laden's death, acknowledged Pakistan's co-operation in the hunt for him.

However, it has not yet been established, to what extent did the intelligence agencies of US and Pakistan work together.

Gul said: "If they carried the operation without the cooperation of ISI, then it will definitely be seen as a direct attack on Pakistan’s integrity and its sovereignty.

"And if ISI and CIA co-operated on this operation then this entire rhetoric of tense relations between the two agencies was a complete drama."

"Given that the helicopters flew at night, and helicopters fly very low so there is no way that they could have escaped the radar of Pakistan intelligence," said Kasuri.

"So this indicates that there was a degree of cooperation. Now what we do not know is the extent of the co-operation."

Ayaz Amir, a Pakistan-based columnist, says it is highly unlikely that "the Pakistani intelligence agencies would have known where he was. They couldn't have played this high-risk game of knowing his whereabouts and pretending otherwise".

"And it is surprising that it took place near a very busy road, it shows sheer audacity that on his part that he chose to seek refuge in a compound in that area.

"The US forces couldn’t have carried out the operation on their own so the question is who gave them the tip-off?"

Many did believe he was already dead - including some CIA officials.

And General Pervez Musharraf, during his time as the president of Pakistan, also said that the man was probably dead but speaking to Geo News on Monday, he said that, "If I had the intelligence report, then I could have confirmed his whereabouts.

"I used to get agitated if someone made a claim that they knew where he was â€" I have to say I was surprised to find out that he was found in Abbottabad."

"When I held the presidential office, in terms of military operations, intelligence cooperation, human intelligence was always ours.

"We had zero technical expertise - no aerial surveillance so we started developing it. But we needed technical support from CIA and gradually we developed our own which was still not comparable to that of the US.

"The policy was clear that only Pakistani troops will operate, no foreign troops will operate. US forces were never allowed, Pakistani forces always operated independently."

And like many others Musharraf acknowledged that "US had always said that in case of actionable intelligence, we will act. But it is a violation of our country, we have well-trained troops."

Worry for Pakistan?

The initial surprise and disbelief have already started to transform into worry for many Pakistanis.

"Pakistan has the most to fear in terms of the reaction, from wherever al-Qaeda has strength in the Islamic World, including Asia and Middle East," said Kasuri.

"In the short term, there will be many more incidents by terrorists, these will be acts to avenge Osama bin Laden’s death......and not just in Pakistan but across the globe.

"In the medium term, US public opinion has been swayed, they feel that justice has been done and it will help Obama finalise his exit strategy from the region.

"In the long term, there will be a quiet debate in the US quarters on how did the phenomenon (of al-Qaeda) come about, they will not acknowledge it but they will talk about it.

Imran Khan, Chairman Movement for Justice, who staged a sit-in just over a week ago to stop NATO supplies to protest US drone strikes in Pakistan says that, "It will be very difficult for Pakistan now.

"If our leadership fails to handle it properly, there will be a backlash from Osama bin Laden’s followers who will hail him as a martyr and try to avenge his death.

"And on the other hand, the idea will be presented to the world and is already being presented by the US media that Pakistan is the hub of terrorism.

Just a symbol

Osama bin Laden, the man who indeed founded al-Qaeda although was no longer the chief operations commander of the outfit, will surely be missed by many of his followers.

Raja Zafar-ul-Haq of Pakistan Muslim League says that "he had just been a symbol (of terrorism) for the last few years but we must remember that the network is still present.

"There will be anger, and the target will not just be US but also Pakistanis so the Pakistan government as well armed forces need to strategise."

Musharraf reminded of a true threat that he believes is very much present still despite the death of the man.

"Al-Qaeda will not just crumble and disappear, whenever someone gefts eliminated from their leadership campaign then new people come and take charge, so we must all realise that it is a long drawn campaign."

"Technical training of Pakistani Taliban such as preparing and using IEDs, suicide jackets, all this training has been given by al-Qaeda... so it is actually al-Qaeda not Osama, that is Pakistan’s main enemy.

"No foreigner has the right to spread terrorism on Pakistan' soil."

[BridgeTroll]

Those wacky Germans...

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,760358,00.html

Justice, American Style
Was Bin Laden's Killing Legal?
An Analysis by Thomas Darnstädt


Is this what justice looks like? Al-Qaida boss Osama bin Laden was killed on Sunday in a secret military operation in Pakistan. Americans are celebrating, but there are serious doubts about whether the targeted killing was legal under international law and the laws of war.

US President Barack Obama gets precious few opportunities to announce a victory. So it's no wonder he chose grand words on Sunday night as the TV crews' spotlights shone upon him and he informed the nation about the deadly strike against Osama bin Laden. "Justice has been done," he said.

It may be that this sentence comes back to haunt him in the years to come. What is just about killing a feared terrorist in his home in the middle of Pakistan? For the families of the victims of the 9/11 attacks, and for patriotic Americans who saw their grand nation challenged by a band of criminals, the answer might be simple. But international law experts, who have been grappling with the question of the legal status of the US-led war on terror for years, find Obama's pithy words on Sunday night more problematic.

Claus Kress, an international law professor at the University of Cologne, argues that achieving retributive justice for crimes, difficult as that may be, is "not achieved through summary executions, but through a punishment that is meted out at the end of a trial." Kress says the normal way of handling a man who is sought globally for commissioning murder would be to arrest him, put him on trial and ultimately convict him. In the context of international law, military force can be used in the arrest of a suspect, and this may entail gun fire or situations of self-defense that, in the end, leave no other possibility than to kill a highly dangerous and highly suspicious person. These developments can also lead to tragic and inevitable escalations of the justice process.

It is unfortunate. And it is certainly no reason for the indescribable jubilation that broke out on Sunday night across America -- and especially not for applause inside the CIA's operations center.

Not Everything the US Declares To Be War Really Is

But Obama and his predecessor Bush never sought the kind of justice that would have seen bin Laden tried in an international court. As early as his election campaign in 2008, Obama swore he would "kill bin Laden" and finish the job begun by his predecessor after 9/11. "We went to war against al-Qaida to protect our citizens, our friends and our allies," the president explained on Sunday night. A US national security official didn't beat around the bush, telling Reuters, "This was a kill operation." And why shouldn't it be? The very goal of war is the defeat of the opponent, the killing of enemies through legal means. War is war.

In truth, it isn't quite that simple. And not everything that the United States declares to be war really is. Legal experts like Kress say it is "questionable whether the USA can still claim to be engaged in an armed conflict with al-Qaida."

It was certainly still war when Bush began the invasion of Afghanistan in 2001. Operation Enduring Freedom targeted the Taliban government in Kabul as well as Osama bin Laden's terrorist organization which it backed. At the time, al-Qaida maintained bases and training camps in Afghanistan -- just like a warring party, in fact. The war on terror was understood to be an "asymmetrical war," and the laws of war also permit the targeted killing of non-state combatants, provided they are really combatants who are organized in units with a military-like character, and that they are integrated into those units either as armed fighters or as a leader who issues commands.

Was Bin Laden Still Even Giving Orders?

For years, Osama bin Laden was, without a doubt, a combatant according to the latter definition. Many terror experts today, however, doubt that definition still applied to him in the end. "Al-Qaida has obviously had a network structure for some time. In a network, it isn't clear who gives the orders in individual instances," Kress says. "Outsiders also know very little about al-Qaida's structures in the Pakistani border areas. It is in no way certain that bin Laden still had the authority to issue commands as head of a quasi-military organization."

But if bin Laden was no longer a leader, it would no longer be permissible to treat him as an enemy combatant or kill him.

Nor is it clear which conflict this operation was actually part of. The operation didn't take place on the actual battlefield of Operation Enduring Freedom, i.e. in Afghanistan, but rather on Pakistani territory. On this point, too, the official American view of international law also diverges from that of most experts on the subject. The commanders of the war on terror consider the entire world to be a battlefield. The US would seek to justify a military operation like the one that took place Sunday anywhere it believes the enemy is hiding -- regardless whether it be in Europe or Islamabad.

Kress and the vast majority of other experts on the law of armed conflict find this view unacceptable. "The theater of an asymmetrical conflict is regularly confined to the territory of the country in, or from, which the non-governmental actors act in quasi-military ways," says Kress. "Anything else would lead to the incalculable escalation of the use of force." Or is another asymmetrical war raging on Pakistani territory today, with al-Qaida waging war against the government there? If so, what role does the Taliban play in this conflict? Or bin Laden, for his part?

"It is in no way clear that bin Laden, at the time of his killing, commanded an organization that was conducting an armed conflict either in or from Pakistan," Kress says.

What Business Did the US Have in Pakistan?

And what business did the United States even have acting within the territory of Pakistan, a foreign power? A military strike that crosses national borders, barring acts of self-defense, is generally viewed as an infringement on sovereignty -- unless Pakistan's government requested help from the Americans.

Did Islamabad actually make that request? Obama sought to gloss over the subject on Sunday night. "Tonight, I called President Zardari, and my team has also spoken with their Pakistani counterparts. They agree that this is a good and historic day for both of our nations."

But was Sunday a good day for justice?

For years, the very principle of international law has been to pursue justice rather than war. On Sunday, Obama said that bin Laden's fate is a "testament to the greatness of our country." If the United States had used the same power it deployed during the invasion of Iraq to force tyrants such as Saddam Hussein or Moammar Gadhafi -- not to mention the mass murderer Osama bin Laden -- into the dock of an international court, one might have believed him.

[BridgeTroll]

Should we post the picture when it comes out?

WHITE HOUSE TO RELEASE BIN LADEN DEATH PHOTO
Tue May 03 2011 10:22:50 ET

President Obama decided Tuesday morning to release at least one photo showing Osama Bin Laden's death, a top source claims.

The images, being described as 'graphic', are bound to stir emotions in the east and the west, and will likely become the most viewed photographs in modern history.

One image shows a bullet wound to his head above his left eye.

Will it remove all doubt about the death?

The exact timing on the release is being debated.

[Jimmy]

I don't think so, BT.  There will be plenty of other places to see it. 

[Timkin]

I don't need to see a picture of him.. I believe he is dead.  I just hope there is not major retaliation for this.

[ben says]

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/index.html

Virtually every major newspaper account of the killing of Osama bin Laden consists of faithful copying of White House claims. That's not surprising: it's the White House which is in exclusive possession of the facts, but what's also not surprising is that many of the claims that were disseminated yesterday turned out to be utterly false. And no matter how many times this happens -- from Jessica Lynch's heroic firefight against Iraqi captors to Pat Tillman's death at the hands of Evil Al Qaeda fighters -- it never changes: the narrative is set forever by first-day government falsehoods uncritically amplified by establishment media outlets, which endure no matter how definitively they are disproven in subsequent days.



Yesterday, it was widely reported that bin Laden "resisted" his capture and "engaged in a firefight" with U.S. forces (leaving most people, including me, to say that his killing was legally justified because he was using force). It was also repeatedly claimed that bin Laden used a women -- his wife -- has a human shield to protect himself, and that she was killed as a result. That image -- of a cowardly through violent-to-the-end bin Laden -- framed virtually every media narrative of the event all over the globe. And it came from many government officials, principally Obama's top counter-terrorism adviser, John Brennan.

Those claims have turned out to be utterly false. From TPM toda:

    It was a fitting end for the America's most wanted man. As President Barack Obama's Deputy National Security Adviser John Brennan told it, a cowardly Osama bin Laden used his own wife as a human shield in his final moments. Except that apparently wasn't what happened at all.

     

    Hours later, other administration officials were clarifying Brennan's account. Turns out the woman that was killed on the compound wasn't bin Laden's wife. Bin Laden may have not even been using a human shield. And he might not have even been holding a gun.

Politico's Josh Gerstein adds: "The White House backed away Monday evening from key details in its narrative about the raid that killed Osama bin Laden, including claims by senior U.S. officials that the Al Qaeda leader had a weapon and may have fired it during a gun battle with U.S. forces." Gerstein added: "a senior White House official said bin Laden was not armed when he was killed."



Whether bin Laden actually resisted his capture may not matter to many people; the White House also claimed that they would have captured him if they had the chance, and this fact seems to negate that claim as well. But what does matter is how dutifully American media outlets publish as "news reports" what are absolutely nothing other than official White House statements masquerading as an investigative article. And the fact that this process continuously produces highly and deliberately misleading accounts of the most significant news items -- falsehoods which endure no matter how decisively they are debunked in subsequent days -- doesn't have the slightest impact on the American media's eagerness to continue to serve this role.

* * * * *

Mona Eltahwy has an excellent column in The Guardian today headlined: "No dignity at Ground Zero. As a US Muslim I abhor the frat boy reaction."

Speaking of "frat boy reactions," Leon Panetta is excitingly speculating about which actors should portray him in the movie about the Hunt for bin Laden, helpfully suggesting Al Pacino. It's been a long time since Americans felt this good and strong about themselves -- nothing like putting bullets in someone's skull and dumping their corpse into an ocean to rejuvenate that can-do American sense of optimism.

[wsansewjs]

OH BOY OH BOY! DO bring the gory photo to us! -rubs hands-

-serpent style eyes glaring at the photo-

(sarcasm)

-Josh

[ben says]

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/chris_hedges_speaks_on_osama_bin_ladens_death_20110502/

I know that because of this announcement, that reportedly Osama bin Laden was killed, Bob [Truthdig Editor Robert Scheer] wanted me to say a few words about it … about al-Qaida. I spent a year of my life covering al-Qaida for The New York Times. It was the work in which I, and other investigative reporters, won the Pulitzer Prize. And I spent seven years of my life in the Middle East. I was the Middle East bureau chief for The New York Times. I’m an Arabic speaker. And when someone came over and told ... me the news, my stomach sank. I’m not in any way naive about what al-Qaida is. It’s an organization that terrifies me. I know it intimately.

But I’m also intimately familiar with the collective humiliation that we have imposed on the Muslim world. The expansion of military occupation that took place throughout, in particular the Arab world, following 9/11â€"and that this presence of American imperial bases, dotted, not just in Iraq and Afghanistan, but in Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Dohaâ€"is one that has done more to engender hatred and acts of terror than anything ever orchestrated by Osama bin Laden.

And the killing of bin Laden, who has absolutely no operational role in al-Qaidaâ€"that’s clearâ€"he’s kind of a spiritual mentor, a kind of guide … he functions in many of the ways that Hitler functioned for the Nazi Party. We were just talking with Warren [Beatty] about [Ian] Kershaw’s great biography of Hitler, which I read a few months ago, where you hold up a particular ideological ideal and strive for it. That was bin Laden’s role. But all actual acts of terror, which he may have signed off on, he no way planned.

I think that one of the most interesting aspects of the whole rise of al-Qaida is that when Saddam Hussein … I covered the first Gulf War, went into Kuwait with the 1st Battalion, 1st Marines, was in Basra during the Shiite uprising until I was captured and taken prisoner by the Iraqi Republican Guard. I like to say I was embedded with the Iraqi Republican Guard. Within that initial assault and occupation of Kuwait, bin Laden appealed to the Saudi government to come back and help organize the defense of his country. And he was turned down. And American troops came in and implanted themselves on Muslim soil.

Advertisement
When I was in New York, as some of you were, on 9/11, I was in Times Square when the second plane hit. I walked into The New York Times, I stuffed notebooks in my pocket and walked down the West Side Highway and was at Ground Zero four hours later. I was there when Building 7 collapsed. And I watched as a nation drank deep from that very dark elixir of American nationalism … the flip side of nationalism is always racism, it’s about self-exaltation and the denigration of the other.

And it’s about forgetting that terrorism is a tactic. You can’t make war on terror. Terrorism has been with us since Sallust wrote about it in the Jugurthine wars. And the only way to successfully fight terrorist groups is to isolate [them], isolate those groups, within their own societies. And I was in the immediate days after 9/11 assigned to go out to Jersey City and the places where the hijackers had lived and begin to piece together their lives. I was then very soon transferred to Paris, where I covered all of al-Qaida’s operations in the Middle East and Europe.

So I was in the Middle East in the days after 9/11. And we had garnered the empathy of not only most of the world, but the Muslim world who were appalled at what had been done in the name of their religion. And we had major religious figures like Sheikh Tantawi, the head of al-Azharâ€"who died recentlyâ€"who after the attacks of 9/11 not only denounced them as a crime against humanity, which they were, but denounced Osama bin Laden as a fraud … someone who had no right to issue fatwas or religious edicts, no religious legitimacy, no religious training. And the tragedy was that if we had the courage to be vulnerable, if we had built on that empathy, we would be far safer and more secure today than we are.

We responded exactly as these terrorist organizations wanted us to respond. They wanted us to speak the language of violence. What were the explosions that hit the World Trade Center, huge explosions and death above a city skyline? It was straight out of Hollywood. When Robert McNamara in 1965 began the massive bombing campaign of North Vietnam, he did it because he said he wanted to “send a message” to the North Vietnameseâ€"a message that left hundreds of thousands of civilians dead.

These groups learned to speak the language we taught them. And our response was to speak in kind. The language of violence, the language of occupationâ€"the occupation of the Middle East, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistanâ€"has been the best recruiting tool al-Qaida has been handed. If it is correct that Osama bin Laden is dead, then it will spiral upwards with acts of suicidal vengeance. And I expect most probably on American soil. The tragedy of the Middle East is one where we proved incapable of communicating in any other language than the brute and brutal force of empire.

And empire finally, as Thucydides understood, is a disease. As Thucydides wrote, the tyranny that the Athenian empire imposed on others it finally imposed on itself. The disease of empire, according to Thucydides, would finally kill Athenian democracy. And the disease of empire, the disease of nationalism … these of course are mirrored in the anarchic violence of these groups, but one that locks us in a kind of frightening death spiral. So while I certainly fear al-Qaida, I know its intentions. I know how it works. I spent months of my life reconstructing every step Mohamed Atta took. While I don’t in any way minimize their danger, I despair. I despair that we as a country, as Nietzsche understood, have become the monster that we are attempting to fight.

[Ajax]

I hope they reconsider releasing the photo.  What's the reason for it?  To prove that he's dead?  To humiliate his supporters?  

I don't hear a lot of people questioning whether or not he's dead.  And those who believe he's still alive will say the photos are faked.  There are still birthers out there who think the Birth Certificate Obama released is faked so what's the point?  

Look at all the hell that broke loose when that nutty preacher in Gainesville burned a Quran.  All it will do is fan the flames of America's enemies, and quite frankly it's a cheap, undignified thing to do.  Hell, why dump him in the ocean?  Why not parade his body around the country and charge people $2 to throw darts at it?  String him up from the top of the Freedom Tower.  That makes about as much sense of releasing gruesome pictures of his corpse.  

[ben says]

These groups learned to speak the language we taught them. And our response was to speak in kind. The language of violence, the language of occupationâ€"the occupation of the Middle East, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistanâ€"has been the best recruiting tool al-Qaida has been handed. If it is correct that Osama bin Laden is dead, then it will spiral upwards with acts of suicidal vengeance. And I expect most probably on American soil. The tragedy of the Middle East is one where we proved incapable of communicating in any other language than the brute and brutal force of empire.

[KenFSU]

I don't hear a lot of people questioning whether or not he's dead.  And those who believe he's still alive will say the photos are faked.  There are still birthers out there who think the Birth Certificate Obama released is faked so what's the point?

Closure. Plain and simple. If you don't hear people questioning whether he is truly dead, you aren't listening closely enough. Doubts have already arisen, both at home and world wide. There is a massive difference between discretely releasing the photos and parading him around the nation on a stick. We have spent $1.3 trillion dollars to bring this man to justice, and after all that we've sacrificed in the last ten years as a nation, and all of the sacrifice we've asked (or taken) from the world, we owe irrefutable proof that the mission was successful. There's nothing bloodthirsty about it. We simply need that closure, in the same way a victim's family sometimes needs the closure of witnessing an execution.

The Arab world also needs closure. Bin Laden had to have known this day would come eventually. You've got to believe he has produced some videos to be released after his death, likely claiming not to believe any story of him being killed. Last thing we need is to leave doubt that he is still alive only to have him return from the dead via modern technology and become this Messianic figure.

Bin Laden took something very personal from each and every one of us, and it's not in the rights of the United States government to decide to keep that proof to themselves.

Show us a body, not for high-fives and vengeance, but for simple closure. That way we can all move on with our lives.

As was noted above, the story we have been told is ALREADY falling apart.

[Ajax]

You have a point, Ken.  Right after I posted, I came across an article where the Taliban is saying they doubt OBL's dead.  However, it doesn't change my position - I'm not in favor of allowing the Taliban to manipulate us into releasing the pictures. 

Once we 'discretely' release the photos, we lose control over what is done with them.  They will be splashed across newspapers in a less-discrete manner.  I would be willing to bet there are at least a couple of budding entrepreneurs who will be willing to make t-shirts. 

It's one thing to have news footage of a murder or an assassination, but another to deliberately release photos of a dead person - no matter how evil that person is.  It debases us. 

I agree that Osama bin Laden took something personal away from us, but instead of releasing pictures of his corpse, I think a better way of healing is for us to start to regain some of the freedoms that were taken away from us by the 'war on terror.' 

[KenFSU]

I agree that Osama bin Laden took something personal away from us, but instead of releasing pictures of his corpse, I think a better way of healing is for us to start to regain some of the freedoms that were taken away from us by the 'war on terror.' 

I'm definitely with you on that, but I guess we'll agree to disagree on the release of the photos

Also, there should be a drinking game where a person has to guess whether an article comes from the Onion or the Florida Times-Union.

http://jacksonville.com/community/clay/2011-05-02/story/bin-ladens-death-means-green-cove-springs-woman-finally-gets-burn