Downtown Jacksonville Ranks Last For Job Growth

[peestandingup]

Take it easy. I didn't mean all of Jax sucks, but we're talking about downtown Jax. And yes, it currently sucks & most people here would I'm sure agree with that statement.

Maybe its time for you to lighten up??

Maybe, but I take great offense to people saying my town SUCKS. I think it rocks and perhaps you should clarify your comments that downtown is challenged, rather than SUCKS. There are some great things about downtown, even in its challenged state. I love Dos Gatos and the entertainment areas that have popped up. I love Art Walk, I love the downtown library, I love the river, the list goes on and on and on.

Sucks is a poor word to use.

So lemme see if I got this. You proudly support Mike Hogan, a man who'd just assume to piss on downtown, transit & anything else that would help it as to look at it. But then you act all offended if someone uses the word "sucks" to describe said area?? OK, got it.

Fake outrage much??

[mtraininjax]

So lemme see if I got this. You proudly support Mike Hogan, a man who'd just assume to piss on downtown, transit & anything else that would help it as to look at it. But then you act all offended if someone uses the word "sucks" to describe said area?? OK, got it.

Fake outrage much??

Aren't we focusing on why you think downtown "sucks"? When did Hogan slip into the thread, oh yeah, you inserted it. No matter who wins the election, I like our downtown, and that is my point. Do you have anything positive to say?

[peestandingup]

Well, I respectfully am gonna have to disagree with you guys. Downtown is def not "awesome", especially compared to similarly sized cities. Hell, compared to many much smaller cities as well. Maybe it has "awesome potential" or has an awesome past. That would certainly be accurate. But today its struggling big time, losing businesses, has a major lack of interest from the general public, no transportation plans anywhere over the horizon, a population that has been absolutely stagnant for many many years, etc. And depending on Mayoral outcomes, will likely go even further down the crapper. Let's just be real about it guys.

P.S. I'm not trying to diss it or offend anyone & I know we're all core advocates here. And I spend most of my time/money in these areas, but we of all people should know the struggles, lack of progress & comparisons.

And just saying it flat out "sucks" may have been a poor choice of wording, so apologies.

[tufsu1]

downtown has tons of potential and could be a great place....that said, I live downtown and find it to be far from sucking

[Kiva]

I don't always agree with the liberals, but I appreciate their point of view.

Easter is always a good time to see the light!

[Timkin]

Take it easy. I didn't mean all of Jax sucks, but we're talking about downtown Jax. And yes, it currently sucks & most people here would I'm sure agree with that statement.

Maybe its time for you to lighten up??

Maybe, but I take great offense to people saying my town SUCKS. I think it rocks and perhaps you should clarify your comments that downtown is challenged, rather than SUCKS. There are some great things about downtown, even in its challenged state. I love Dos Gatos and the entertainment areas that have popped up. I love Art Walk, I love the downtown library, I love the river, the list goes on and on and on.

Sucks is a poor word to use.

Actually agree with you M-train on you point of view.  Its interesting that you can never ever seem to appreciate mine.. You actually find fault with most anything I say.

That is what I mean when I say practice what you preach.  I don't think Jacksonville sucks. I just think it could and SHOULD be a lot more than it is .

[danem]

"sucks" is kind of an intellectual shortcut for when you don't like something, but it's not very constructive. I see a lot of folks speak badly of Jacksonville on here and elsewhere, but I think it's great for many reasons.

Conversely, "awesome" is another shortcut for when you do like something, but it is way overused, e.g. "This sausage and egg biscuit is AWESOME". Awesome is something that blows your mind. Knocks your socks off. Gets a standing ovation. Awesome is a goal to strive for in anything we have control over.

[Noone]

Why is it that no one is discussing the BUSINESSes that are in these downtowns and the rock anchors that have been a part of them in education as well?

We do have CSX as a major downtown tenant, but they really do not make Jacksonville a transportation town, just because they are here. Yes we have 1504 rusting its guts out at the CC, but what do we do to commemorate our transportation era when we were the busiest station in the world in the 1920s? Nothing really. We have a nice maritime museum, but it REALLY needs a much larger presence, tied to the ship we want downtown and hey, it would be great to have the public dock.

We've lost banks and insurance industries to elsewhere. So what business downtown do we really have, besides CSX, that is Fortune 500 company with some real power for Jax? Everbank could eventually be a player. Fortegra moved to the suburbs, so did Modis/Addecco, is our downtown destined to fail because everytime someone puts ROOTS downtown, someone comes along and buys the company and moves it further out for cheaper land?

At some point Dr. Wallace of FCSJ needs to step up and take over more of the buildings and space for the university. At some point UNF and JU need to have more of a presence downtown as well. If no corporate group can come in and be a major player, we need education to step up and take charge. If education can lead the way, it can show that our downtown is more than just empty buildings. Just a thought.

mtraininjax, I like your post.

6 years ago I participated in a JCCI study called River Dance-Putting the River in River City. Ted Papas was the chair. The first meeting was a presentation by Terry Lorrince with Downtown Vision and a recent report by Chan, Krieger and Associates who spent 3 days visiting our Downtown. The OFWB was still an option for our Downtown. Her presentation to everyone starting this study DID NOT include the Old Fuller Warren Bridge. So at the very first meeting of our River Dance study during Q&A I asked Terry did Chan Krieger after spending 3 days focusing soley on our Downtown even notice this beautiful vertical access point that would narrow the river? She said yes and it was their recommendation that it be saved and used. This was disclosed during the very first meeting. And what did we do?

A JCCI study goes on for months. At one point the group was asked to take on best practices: themes and observations of other cities. The city that I picked was Louisville. I had the pleasure of working with David Karem who was the President/Executive Director of the Louisville Waterfront Development Corporation. The man could not have been more accommodating and gracious with his time and resources to contribute to our study and here we are 6 years later Louisville is first and we are last. Will we continue to ignore outside advice as somehow being cancerous and thus continue to be eaten away from inside.

mtraininjax your reference to CSX and their corporate headquarters right on the river has perplexed me over the years as well. At the time of the OFWB issue I tried to meet Mr. Ward. never happened. I also tried to meet with Mr. Greene at Baptist and my city council representative at the time Suzanne Jenkins said that she would come as well. Again the OFWB wasn't even in her district.

Ock, as well as others have opened my eyes to rail that I've never embraced before. A streetcar loop. I'm not going to go off now on rail but suffice to say that a streetcar component could happen now. CSX- Where are you?

And the Public dock. That can happen now too. The Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier needs to be separate. Legislation needs to be introduced now before the district representation is lost. Don't be afraid of this.

David Karem was awesome. He along with the city of Louisville when this assignment was given were getting ready for the Kentucky Derby. He sent me materials, handouts, their own master plans.  Here we are 6 years later. Another JCCI study to soon be released Recession, Recovery and Beyond.

I'm concerned and I'm just not feeling it.

[jcjohnpaint]

Why is it that no one is discussing the BUSINESSes that are in these downtowns and the rock anchors that have been a part of them in education as well?

We do have CSX as a major downtown tenant, but they really do not make Jacksonville a transportation town, just because they are here. Yes we have 1504 rusting its guts out at the CC, but what do we do to commemorate our transportation era when we were the busiest station in the world in the 1920s? Nothing really. We have a nice maritime museum, but it REALLY needs a much larger presence, tied to the ship we want downtown and hey, it would be great to have the public dock.

We've lost banks and insurance industries to elsewhere. So what business downtown do we really have, besides CSX, that is Fortune 500 company with some real power for Jax? Everbank could eventually be a player. Fortegra moved to the suburbs, so did Modis/Addecco, is our downtown destined to fail because everytime someone puts ROOTS downtown, someone comes along and buys the company and moves it further out for cheaper land?

At some point Dr. Wallace of FCSJ needs to step up and take over more of the buildings and space for the university. At some point UNF and JU need to have more of a presence downtown as well. If no corporate group can come in and be a major player, we need education to step up and take charge. If education can lead the way, it can show that our downtown is more than just empty buildings. Just a thought.

Very well stated.  Downtown also has to compete with the Southside.  At this point, downtown is the crappy more expensive alternative.  I would love to see more presence of the Universities Downtown.  I believe this must happen. 

[peestandingup]

Why is it that no one is discussing the BUSINESSes that are in these downtowns and the rock anchors that have been a part of them in education as well?

We do have CSX as a major downtown tenant, but they really do not make Jacksonville a transportation town, just because they are here. Yes we have 1504 rusting its guts out at the CC, but what do we do to commemorate our transportation era when we were the busiest station in the world in the 1920s? Nothing really. We have a nice maritime museum, but it REALLY needs a much larger presence, tied to the ship we want downtown and hey, it would be great to have the public dock.

We've lost banks and insurance industries to elsewhere. So what business downtown do we really have, besides CSX, that is Fortune 500 company with some real power for Jax? Everbank could eventually be a player. Fortegra moved to the suburbs, so did Modis/Addecco, is our downtown destined to fail because everytime someone puts ROOTS downtown, someone comes along and buys the company and moves it further out for cheaper land?

At some point Dr. Wallace of FCSJ needs to step up and take over more of the buildings and space for the university. At some point UNF and JU need to have more of a presence downtown as well. If no corporate group can come in and be a major player, we need education to step up and take charge. If education can lead the way, it can show that our downtown is more than just empty buildings. Just a thought.

Very well stated.  Downtown also has to compete with the Southside.  At this point, downtown is the crappy more expensive alternative.  I would love to see more presence of the Universities Downtown.  I believe this must happen. 

Easy now. That sounds a lot like saying it sucks & we can't have that kind of talk on these here boards. Raise your pitchforks, town folk! Git him!!

Seriously, you're right though. Downtown having a major university would help tremendously. At this point, it really doesn't have enough to stand on its own two legs & needs boosted from another entity like that.

Huge mistake not putting UNF downtown.

[ChriswUfGator]

They ran off a med school and a law school too, if that makes you feel any better!

[Steve_Lovett]

Unless Jacksonville realizes that its downtown is worth investing in, and believes that the investment will repay, the city will not be competitive with any peer city despite such a beautiful setting and great weather.

Read the following:

http://newurbannetwork.com/article/best-bet-tax-revenue-mixed-use-downtown-development-13144

[jcjohnpaint]

you know UNF does have a presence downtown/ MOCA.  We own it and have classes there.  We have all of our events at MOCA.  Not much support from the city, but we are down there.  I think a lot of us would like to see the MOCA, UNF or other schools expand more into the downtown, but without the support it means nothing.  Everything good is somewhere else because the policies/ taxes/ fees/ whatever are more conductive to business.  I am very liberal, but this is one time I might say get the hell out of the way because you are f'in it all up, but who?  Businesses have to do what they have to do to survive and if downtown policy makes it hard to survive then why would anyone want to stay there or relocate there.  Who ever is running the system down there is doing a terrible job and should be removed from their post office or whatever.  I would really like to see a thread created that talks (truthfully) about why nothing works downtown and WHO is to blame.  What are the policies that are hurting small businesses?  I have heard Ron Chamblin mention on here his thoughts which is a great start.  Lets put it out there and stop blaming each other. 

[peestandingup]

Unless Jacksonville realizes that its downtown is worth investing in, and believes that the investment will repay, the city will not be competitive with any peer city despite such a beautiful setting and great weather.

Read the following:

http://newurbannetwork.com/article/best-bet-tax-revenue-mixed-use-downtown-development-13144

Urban density? Mixed use? Transit!? That's hippie talk!!

[jcjohnpaint]

wow that sounded pretty right wing, but I am for a good private/ public partnership and we have anything but that downtown.