Are the Weavers hedging their bets?

[Bativac]

so is your only financial  issue with the Jags the stadium itself?

My only issue is that taxpayer-supported professional sports teams are an entertainment and ego or "QOL" thing. The old threadbare justification about how football teams are some magical economic panacea for their respective municipalities is pretty much complete B.S. that has been thoroughly debunked over the past decade by a string of studies on it. So I was just pointing out that, if you want a meaningful discussion, then we need to talk about the real function. Because the economic impact is almost always negative, not positive.

But I have no issue with the Jags. This is a democracy, and if people want a football team then we should have a football team. Like I said, I don't think we should get rid of parks, statues, and fountains either, and those don't generate any return for taxpayers. That's hardly the dispositive consideration. But we should get away from pretending that the reason we do it is because the economic benefits outweigh the costs.

I agree with this. If people want to bitch about tax dollars being spent downtown or on things they disagree with but are okay with the city paying for the stadium, then fine, throw money at it. But quit pretending the Jags bring an economic benefit to the city because they do not. As you said - neither do parks or fountains.

I think the fact that we were awarded the team did more for the city than continuing to have a mediocre team. I couldn't care less if the Jags were never here because I am not a football fan and am consistently inconvenienced by the Jags when they play home games. However, I think losing them would make the city look worse than having a lame team. But if the city had enough else going for it - like Los Angeles for example - having a football team wouldn't be seen as the kind of crowning achievement that some seem to think it is. Yeah, we have an NFL team. And? We also have a half finished highrise condo smack dab in the middle of the skyline, next to the Jail; historic neighborhoods that have been torn down and replaced with vacant lots; no good reason for anybody to visit beyond nice parks and beaches; out of control sprawl; and a small handful of truly walkable areas.

Regarding the original topic of this thread - I absolutely think the Weavers are hedging their bets. I'm sure they have political differences but I'm also sure neither one of them is an idiot. "Hey! Let's each support a candidate!" "Good idea!"

[I-10east]

I couldn't care less if the Jags were never here because I am not a football fan

Whoa! That's a shocker!!!

[ChriswUfGator]

The largest bank in the Southeast, and the three largest banks in Florida were headquartered in Jacksonville for the 100 years before we had the Jaguars

Then mega banks like BOA decided to acquire the smaller banks (like Barnett) throughout America, making a near monopoly. That was gonna happen regardless of the Jags being here.

Why haven't they been replaced by new banks, insurance companies, or new-economy participants like major internet companies? Or even regular small businesses? Within this state, most of that activity landed in Miami and Tampa, and tourism went to Orlando, no? But I thought the NFL team was a magic magnet for economic development? So why did downtown Jacksonville all but die?

Obviously the point I'm making it that an NFL team has nothing to do with these other factors, and the claims about generating all sorts of economic activity didn't pan out. I like the Jags, I know I'm coming off like the "get rid of the team" guy, but I really don't feel that way. Just sick of hearing about how one expensive pie in the sky after another, be it the NFL, a new convention center (after the last 3 failed), this that and the other thing are going to have all of this economic impact that never materializes. That's been my only point all along. Well, other than having to school another poster on how picking at someone's unintended grammatical errors is impolite and can backfire.

[I-10east]

Why haven't they been replaced by new banks, insurance companies, or new-economy participants like major internet companies? Or even regular small businesses? Within this state, most of that activity landed in Miami and Tampa, and tourism went to Orlando, no? But I thought the NFL team was a magic magnet for economic development? So why did downtown Jacksonville all but die?

It's funny that you mentioned Miami, and Tampa, two cities that we (Jax) have more Fortune 500's than BTW; Afterall, those are the bigtime companies. The housing crisis seem to have hit Central, and South Florida more hard than North Florida. Tampa and Miami is not exactly Charlotte, or Atlanta right now (businesswise).   

[mtraininjax]

So why did downtown Jacksonville all but die?

Chris, downtown is not all about the NFL. Where do most of the players, coaches, and staff live? Suburbs, some don't even live in Duval County. Downtown does not offer enough to keep families living there, nor is the housing inexpensive enough when compared to living at the Beach or Riverside or Queens Harbor.

Jacksonville still has too much cheap land for development. Until the land prices rise to make downtown look affordable, I don't care how many billions are thrown at downtown, neither Brown or Hogan can fix the issues.

[Timkin]

Not to steer the thread off course, but did anyone see in the TU the MANSION in Queen's Harbour that sold for $1.5 MM ??.. That house was SWANK    Walked through it when the previous owners were moving out and had a Moving sale or whatever.. .. its so ridiculous how many ammenities it had.

Back to the topic .  BTW . Hi M-train !  

[ChriswUfGator]

Why haven't they been replaced by new banks, insurance companies, or new-economy participants like major internet companies? Or even regular small businesses? Within this state, most of that activity landed in Miami and Tampa, and tourism went to Orlando, no? But I thought the NFL team was a magic magnet for economic development? So why did downtown Jacksonville all but die?

It's funny that you mentioned Miami, and Tampa, two cities that we (Jax) have more Fortune 500's than BTW; Afterall, those are the bigtime companies. The housing crisis seem to have hit Central, and South Florida more hard than North Florida. Tampa and Miami is not exactly Charlotte, or Atlanta right now (businesswise).  

That's terribly incorrect;

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2010-apr-fortune-500-floridas-largest-companies-in-2010

Fortune 500 companies by Metropolitan Area

5 Miami/South Florida

3 Jacksonville

3 Tampa/St. Petersburg

[JeffreyS]

Jax may well have 4 by the next 500 issue look for LPS to get in.

[JeffreyS]

All for incidentally in the core well WD is close. 

[ChriswUfGator]

Winn-Dixie is already included in the list, that is one of the 3. And Fidelity's component companies aren't large enough independently to make the 1-500, More like 500-700 range. They were already around the 400 range to begin with, as they keep spinning pieces off they will continue to drop probably out the 500 altogether. And if we are going to go by the Fortune 1000 instead of 500, we really don't have a horse in the race vs. Miami or Tampa. Especially Miami, they have a whole boatload that are on the 1000 but not big enough to make the 500. Yet.

[JeffreyS]

Look for LPS to be in buying mode this year. I meant WD is close too the core I know they are one of the 500.

[ChriswUfGator]

Gotcha, I misundertood on WD. LPS buying huh, interesting. Looking forward to it, more workers the better.

[PeeJayEss]

1: Grammar Nazis aren't perpetrators of genocide. They're worse.

Yea, I get it, none of my arguments count because I made a short clarification of what you wrote before typing my original response. I'm going to assume that a serious argument about the economics of the Jags is not going to happen in this thread where we are apparently only allowed to discuss the "ego and entertainment" of sports.

[tufsu1]

I think there was only one team in the NFL that was a net profit for the host city, and it was the one that was actually owned by the city itself (?) ...I think....

That would be the Green Bay Packers

[ChriswUfGator]

1: Grammar Nazis aren't perpetrators of genocide. They're worse.

Yea, I get it, none of my arguments count because I made a short clarification of what you wrote before typing my original response. I'm going to assume that a serious argument about the economics of the Jags is not going to happen in this thread where we are apparently only allowed to discuss the "ego and entertainment" of sports.

Ah yes, I see we're still going with the...



strategy.