Redefining "Downtown"

[tufsu1]

While I'm not saying to write off Downtown, urban and cultural development IS happening in the surrounding areas. And i find it competitive with ANY others here in the country.
A point here has to be a new definition for many of "Downtown". As such is a relative term. i'm defining it as those urban communities pointed out here in metrojax itself. I f one does this, you will find that we do have a very viable "downtown".

+1

[rainfrog]

I was only arguing word usage, lake, which I admit doesn't mean much. I'm glad you've steered to a more meaningful comparison of these cities. I've studied urban history (especially of Jax) for about half my life and I'm never immune to the shock of how much destruction has taken place since WWII. Jax really took a bigger hit than most.

This is a good visualization I stitched together a few years back, comparing the block-by-block population density of Jacksonville to Richmond using 2000 Census data. Check out the difference in the size of their 'impact craters'. Richmond has a much more manageable gap to work with, and they've made good strides the past decade.

Jacksonville:

(Click for full-size)

Richmond:


Key:



I'm hoping Census.gov will have a thematic mapping engine I can use to make comparable maps of 2010 data soon.

Just throwing this out there: of the three in-tact walkable clusters (Riverside, Springfield, San Marco), it almost seems like the worst gap in the landscape is Riverside-Springfield. Brooklyn and LaVilla are decades away from filling in (the right way). On the other hand, the Riverside-San Marco gap is just the river, with only one possible solution: a crossing (of whatever kind). And the Springfield-San Marco gap is where new housing has already been concentrated, with the Parks at the Cathedral, Berkman Plaza, and the Southbank towers, not to mention prime land for more (Shipyards and JEA site). These two gaps seem so much more feasible than Brooklyn and LaVilla at this point. I'm just thinking 'out loud'... obviously all of these should be part of a comprehensive focus.

[thelakelander]

Rainfrog, thanks for posting those maps. They basically show how a starter urban mass transit and bikeway system should be implemented. Basically, Riverside, San Marco, Springfield and Durkeeville (all have pockets of high residential density) should be connected to each other.  All will benefit from such a short system and so will the no man's land (however, it still is the major employment/cultural center for these neighborhoods) in the middle, which is also known as DT.

[geauxtigers31]

@ hillary supporter

You really caught the vision of what I am trying to say. If we redefine "Downtown Jacksonville" to include places like Lomax Lounge and Jack Rabbits, etc. We really are making tremendous progress and should be proud of our Downtown.

Instead, we insist that Downtown Jax is that area of tall buildings that closes down on weeknights and only has energy on the weekends. Its absurd. In alot of ways I think the Landing has some blame because it gives this false identity to that area. I wish the Landing could be moved either close to the stadiums or over to Brooklyn. Supproting those urban neigborhoods. Its comepletely out of place where it is, IMO. Again, trying to make the CBD into something that it shouldn't be.

We are in a great city...better than most. I certainly don't want to imply that we give up on the core, or CBD, or whatever...and definitely lets not be content. But lets finally say that Downtown Jax has some great things to offer because we think of those surrounding neighborhoods when we talk about downtown. Lets stop fueling the unwarranted negativity.

[hillary supporter]

@geauxtigers i'm flattered by your compliment. You remind me of myself when i returned here . In this thread i want to pass along to you my experience of what you are doing in that i did the same thing when i returned in 2005. The city is, was, NOT the "hootersville" that popular(outside) vision implied. The downtown development is being held up by excessively high real estate prices that prevent small individual residential investers from literally homesteading downtown. And with incredibly affordable prices in Springfield, which was in the last two years (national economic meltdown) followed by the great nieghborhood of riverside, i ,at the time reluctantly, moved to riverside. Each day, i cant believe how fortunate that move was. As i descibed yesterday.
In terms of Downtown, in my experience, you can expect NO help from the city. For a multitude of reasons that we at metrojax have gone through constantly.
We do have a GREAT downtown (in a redefinition) thats has the greatest things to offer. I believe thats why i say to myself, "How did i come up with such a great idea of moving to riverside?".

[jcjohnpaint]

Rainfrog, thanks for posting those maps. They basically show how a starter urban mass transit and bikeway system should be implemented. Basically, Riverside, San Marco, Springfield and Durkeeville (all have pockets of high residential density) should be connected to each other.  All will benefit from such a short system and so will the no man's land (however, it still is the major employment/cultural center for these neighborhoods) in the middle, which is also known as DT.

I totally agree with you Lake.  if some kind of transit routes connect the outer neighborhoods to the CBD, then growth will also come along the transit routes leading to more connectivity.  I feel that the time this is the only way that places like La Villa and Brooklyn/ maybe even Springfield are going to get the growth they deserve.  I also agree with Hilary Supporter that we need to get more affordable housing in the core- more than luxury suites. 

[thelakelander]

Affordable housing is where areas like LaVilla, Brooklyn and New Springfield become viable market rate infill projects become feasible because of transit connectivity.  With a focus only on the CBD, fulfilling the needs of affordable urban infill housing will be significantly more difficult to meet.

[futurejax]

What is the project that looks to be under construction across from St. Joe's Corp?  Is that still happening?

[tufsu1]

What is the project that looks to be under construction across from St. Joe's Corp?  Is that still happening?

all that is happening is the pond for now...the rest of the project could not get financing

[futurejax]

Thanks, what exactly was the rest of the project? Is it on hold or totally dead?

[tufsu1]

I would say it is dead until the market gets better and they can obtain financing

[Timkin]

Are we talking about the "Brooklyn Park"  project that so many buildings were razed to do ?

[thelakelander]

Brooklyn Park is dead. All those demos happened for nothing. They are talking about the project next door, 200 Riverside.

[letters and numbers]

you know I hear it both ways when somebody says do you live in downtown I say no Riverside and they say that is down town to them. but im in between houses right now so I can say nowhere now!

[fieldafm]

200 Riverside has not gotten the required tennant interest to move forward with financing.  It is not dead.  Brooklyn Park(the commercial development) is dead and the bank now owns the land. 

The ampitheatre at the corner of Forrest/Riverside should be complete by the end of the summer.