Better Watch The Sky, We're Missing Another Opportunity!

[Ocklawaha]

Sometime ago, Doc, a few others and myself joined in a long talk on one of the forums about the Airships. I recalled them from my youth, flying over Jacksonville, headed for Banana River LTA base, Glynco LTA base or our own Francis Field LTA base (currently visible by Golf World). We spoke of the great Zeppelins and I mentioned that they are going to come back in ways we couldn't imagine. CONTAINERS ANYONE? A large Zeppelin could lift and transport a dozen or more containers trans-Atlantic in a day and a half. Currently the subject of entry into the USA, ZEPPELIN AIRSHIPS are indeed alive and well. Wouldn't it be great if just once in our history, we did something really "BOLD and NEW" in this very old "City of the South!" Read it and weep Jacksonville...

Tourist airship may soar over SF in 2008
By Declan McCullagh, News.com
Published on ZDNet News

ASPEN, Colo.--A start-up company is planning to offer tourists rides in a 250-foot zeppelin over the San Francisco Bay, Napa Valley and the Golden Gate Bridge.

Airship Ventures said Thursday that it plans to begin passenger flights in a German-made Zeppelin NT airship, to be based at NASA's Moffett Field airstrip about 40 miles south of San Francisco, in mid-2008.

Until Thursday's announcement at Esther Dyson's Flight School conference here, Airship Ventures had been in something of a stealth mode. Now it's disclosed details about the project, which will use a massive NT07 airship made by Zeppelin Luftschifftechnik that's a full 10 feet longer than the new Airbus 380.

"You cannot buy a ticket to fly on an airship in the USA," said Alexandra Hall, Airship Venture's chief executive. "This is an opportunity you cannot have right now that we are providing to people." No prices have been disclosed, and the Web site with merchandise and additional details is supposed to go live in July.
Zeppelin

In addition to sightseeing over the scenic Bay Area at 500 feet to 1,000 feet above ground level, Hall said, other uses for the vehicle would include surveillance, science, media coverage of sporting events, and advertising (there's plenty of room, with the NT07's surface area of 2,630 square meters). The NT07 can hold 12 passengers and two pilots.

The other Airship Venture principal is Brian Hall, the founder and chief executive of software company Mark/Space, a software vendor that sells synchronization software for Macintosh computers and handheld devices.

One potential hitch is that the Federal Aviation Administration has not approved the NT07 for flight inside the United States, though it does have a proceeding under way. Barring unexpected bureaucratic red tape, Hall expects approval to be forthcoming by next year, in part because the airship has been operating in other countries for nearly seven years.

Other Zeppelin Luftschifftechnik-made airships have been used for sightseeing in Germany, as surveillance during the 2004 Athens Olympics, and by the De Beers company, for mineral prospecting in Africa.

Zeppelins are especially useful for those purposes because they can stay aloft for eight or more hours, far more than a helicopter or a plane, and remain quieter as well.

Unlike the airships of the early 20th century, modern zeppelins are filled with nonflammable helium gas. The 1937 Hindenburg disaster arose because the aircraft was filled with flammable hydrogen gas in part because of a prewar helium embargo from the United States.

One other thing that Airship Ventures is fond of pointing out is that its forthcoming NT07 airship is not a blimp. That's because blimps are akin to balloons that hold their shape based on the pressure of the gas, while rigid and semirigid airships have an internal framework which, in the case of the NT07, is composite material and aluminum.

New life for an old military airfield?
Even though NASA's Moffett Federal Airfield sits in between the Palo Alto, Calif., and San Jose, Calif., airports on some of the most valuable real estate in the United States, the airstrip is infrequently used except for special events such as accommodating Air Force One on presidential visits.

Unlike the Presidio, a former Army base in San Francisco that also fell into disuse, Moffett has not been privatized. Instead, portions are being rented out to Google and used as a venue for late-night dance parties.

Moffett does, however, have a unique feature: a set of massive hangars that were originally built in the 1930s to house submarine-hunting military blimps. (The largest, a local landmark called Hanger One, is 1,133 feet long and has been threatened with destruction because of the presence of lead and asbestos. One proposal would turn it into a convention center.)

"They're designed for 800-foot airships, not 300-foot ones," so there's plenty of space, Hall said.

Transporting the Zeppelin NT07 across the Atlantic, though, is no trivial task. Because it can't carry enough fuel to fly nonstop, options include ferrying it in shorter hops from the British isles to Iceland to Greenland to Goose Bay, Canada, in the same way pilots of jets like the Eclipse 500 already do. Another option is to place it in a container ship and float it across the ocean.

"Then we're going to fly it across America, which I think would really be outstanding," Hall said.

That leaves the final task of financing the airship. Airship Ventures says in its literature that "we do have one option, but it's not very attractive." It's looking for investors to help defray the cost, which could be around $12 million.

If your still with me, I believe History Channel is going to do an "Airships" piece tonight at 9 pm.



Ocklawaha

[Lunican]

[Ocklawaha]

Unlike the airships of the early 20th century, modern zeppelins are filled with nonflammable helium gas. The 1937 Hindenburg disaster arose because the aircraft was filled with flammable hydrogen gas in part because of a prewar helium embargo from the United States.

My Mother was witness to the LZ Los Angeles, as the great zeppelin sailed across the country, floating on Helium Gas and powered with Diesel fuel. My Father flew on several patrol blimps, as a "ride along". I know he had school for the LZ Akron or LZ Macon, but never was assigned (thank GOD) to either. Looking at the record, with primitive aviation and navigation gear aboard, flying into gales and tropical storms, it's a wonder they didn't wreck more of them. The flaming crash you posted is almost always the poster child... but ignores the change of lifting gas. It is a beautiful photo of a horrible event. I don't subscribe to the theory that it was "done in" by some anti-Nazi. Filled with hydrogen, it was a flying bomb. Landing after an electrical storm, in unstable air, in a metal framed massive ship, was an invitation to ground the circuit. Drop the bow line, touch the ground source, and spark "St. Elmo's Fire" and it's all over. I've seen weird electrical sparking and dancing flames on wires out in the prairie, guess NJ is no different.

If the NT comes here, I want to be first in line, but we ALL KNOW, it will go to Orlando! God know's I love this stuff. OMG, JTA and Zeppelin Rapid Transit may indeed happen!



Ocklawaha

[blizz01]

Photos: Airships Fly Again After 71 Years
Great shots (just a supplement):

http://blogs.sfweekly.com/shookdown/2009/08/photos_airships_fly_again_afte.php?page=1

[civil42806]

"offer tourists rides in a 250-foot zeppelin over the San Francisco Bay, Napa Valley and the Golden Gate Bridge."

Sort of hard to take tours on SF bay, Napa Valley and GG bridge from jacksonville

[stjr]

Nice overview of Zeppelins at Wikipedia:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeppelin

The biggest ones pushed 800 feet in length or better.

As a (formerly active) stamp collector, I know that stamps designed for postage rates for mail carried by zeppelins are heavily prized as are any actual pieces of mail postmarked as so carried.

This was another interesting quote that should appeal to Mr. Dare:

The steampunk genre of science fiction has adopted the zeppelin as something of a mascot. They are representative of general steampunk themes with their grand scale, Victorian aesthetics, and failure to be put into common use. They are often portrayed either as massive and imposing transports or powerful flying gunships (standing up to much more fire than a real zeppelin). (See the Captain Bastable trilogy: The Warlord of the Air, The Land Leviathan, and The Steel Tsar by Michael Moorcock).

[BridgeTroll]

I spent about six years working in Hangar one at Moffett...  Absolutely huge...

http://www.moffettfieldmuseum.org/photos/index.php?folder=/Macon/Hangar_one/

[Ocklawaha]

"offer tourists rides in a 250-foot zeppelin over the San Francisco Bay, Napa Valley and the Golden Gate Bridge."

Sort of hard to take tours on SF bay, Napa Valley and GG bridge from jacksonville

Civil, you may have missed my point on this subject. What I'm concerned with is the new Zeppelins are certified as safe for passenger traffic, but they are still in the experimental realm of the science.

Modern avionics and helium gas makes them as safe or safer then airplanes. The lifting gas can also be such that any new 800 foot long Zeppelin could be in the passenger AND container business. This is why I desire JPA and JAA to do a meeting or planning session on this subject. I know Zeppelin and Cargo Lifter are both planning massive transoceanic ships and so far the only places to even flirt with them has been New York and San Francisco. These little ships are going to lead to a new airship age. One only has to consider that the Graf Zeppelin of the 1920's could cross the Atlantic on the same amount of fuel that a 747 uses going from the gate to the runway at JIA.

Containers? Yes CONTAINERS are certainly on the horizon. They won't carry the typical cargos, rather they will carry light, high priority express shipments.

Inviting ZEPPELIN or CARGO LIFTER to Jax for a tour of the town could someday be our trump card to a new wave of transportation. At worse, we get a small tourist ship that sails from our airports and takes passengers on a Skyline to Beach and Back tour. But having the facility and ability to dock the great ships of the future would put us at the head of the line if these projects pan out.

Meanwhile lets talk Light Then Air, Airships, and what we could do within a reasonable time frame to get in on this party before everyone else does it.

Byline: Charles F. Bostwick Staff Writer

PALMDALE - An experimental airship airship, an aircraft that consists of a cigar-shaped gas bag, or envelope, filled with a lighter-than-air gas to provide lift, a propulsion system, a steering mechanism, and a gondola accommodating passengers, crew, and cargo.  built in secret by Lockheed Martin For the former company, see .

Lockheed Martin (NYSE: LMT) is a leading multinational aerospace manufacturer and advanced technology company formed in 1995 by the merger of Lockheed Corporation with Martin Marietta.  emerged from a hangar Tuesday morning for a short test flight around U.S. Air Force Plant 42.

Lockheed Martin has not disclosed the purpose or technical details about the craft, which it said is being used to test airship technology.

``We have not done any public discussion about the airship. It's an independent research and development effort so it's coming from our own dollars,'' Lockheed Martin spokeswoman Dianne Knippel said.

Silver and marked ``Lockheed Martin'' with the ``Skunk skunk, name for several related New World mammals of the weasel family, characterized by their conspicuous black and white markings and use of a strong, highly offensive odor for defense.  Works'' logo on its tails, the airship drew onlookers at a popular aircraft-watchers' spot on Sierra Highway Sierra Highway is a road in Southern California, United States. It runs from Tunnel Station near the north limit of the City of Los Angeles, where it intersects with San Fernando Road and Foothill Boulevard, as well as Interstate 5, and continues north to Mojave, mostly paralleling  at Avenue N. Accompanied by a helicopter, the craft cruised up and down the installation's runways at low level, making several tight turns.

``It's kind of hard to hide a blimp blimp: see airship. ,'' Knippel added.

Built in Palmdale, the craft first flew Jan. 31 and is designated only as P-791.

Of the designation, Knippel said: ``That's just a number we pulled out of a hat that says Program No. 791. It doesn't mean anything.''

Airships have drawn new interest from American military officials.

aero·nau  Systems Corp. were hired last year by the Pentagon to study possible designs for a giant airship capable of transporting soldiers and gear around the world to battle areas.

Code-named ``Walrus walrus, marine mammal, Odobenus rosmarus, found in Arctic seas. Largest of the fin-footed mammals, or pinnipeds (see seal), the walrus is also distinguished by its long tusks and by cheek pads bearing quill-like bristles. ,'' the new airship would fly using a combination of lighter-than-air gas - like conventional blimps or World War I zeppelins - and aerodynamic lift Noun 1. aerodynamic lift - the component of the aerodynamic forces acting on an airfoil that opposes gravity
lift

aerodynamic force - forces acting on airfoils in motion relative to the air (or other gaseous fluids)  generated by the craft's shape, as well as thrust vectoring.

The trade publication Aerospace Week suggested in an article published last week that P-791 is a hybrid aircraft like the proposed Walrus, combining both buoyant gases and aerodynamic lift.

P-791 is not connected with Walrus, Knippel said.

In addition, a Lockheed Martin division in Ohio is building for the U.S. Missile Defense Agency a prototype high-altitude airship that could be used for spotting enemy missiles, acting as a communication relay, monitoring weather, or other tasks.

Airships have a military history dating back two centuries.

OCKLAWAHA

[macbeth25]

I'm not kidding with this.  Look up pykrete and imagine a floating hotel or casino built out of that stuff.  They -- Churchill and others -- were talking about building mile long or longer aircraft carriers out of pykrete (a combination of water and wood pulp) which would have been just about indestructable by anything short of an atomic weapon -- and they didn't have atomic weapons at that time.  I don't see any reason why you couldn't build a floating island out of the stuff.  Take a look at this: http://www.uhaul.com/supergraphics/news.aspx?id=11563 to learn about Project  Habbakuk.  I have a story about pykrete I can tell if anyone is interested.