Downtown advocates call for new master plan and vision

[ChriswUfGator]

This is what happens when little rich boys are allowed the purses of a city...should never have happened but knowing our city's voting record it probably will happen again very soon. The conservative leadership of this city has never really learned anything from it's past and the same families are doing the same thing as always so i  have very little hope of actual change in the way of away from what we've been getting.

More like old rich boys who we're told we must respect, despite their actual track records on anything remotely related to urban planning being abysmal.

[cgaskins]

It raises the bar.  Instead of people constructing buildings that look like they belong in a suburb â€" LaVilla School of the Arts, Barnett on West Bay, the Volunteers of America building at Jefferson and West Duval, Sikes & Stowe that's right next to the courthouse, et al. â€"people will feel more inclined to put up REAL buildings that belong in an urban core.  Not every building needs a front yard with a driveway or street level parking spaces.
Could the 400 million clams have been used in a better way?  Hell yeah.  But guess what, Jax is stuck with a big courthouse, so learn stop worrying and love the bomb.
There's a lot of empty land around this courthouse, so it does stick out a little, but over the years that land will, hopefully, fill up with all kinds of new buildings.  And instead of that area looking odd because there is this grand ol' courthouse, it'll look like a thriving business and government district.
Not everyone is going to agree on aesthetics, but you can't argue the fact that it's a big and impressive building.  When someone who has never been to Jacksonville before sees it they'll no doubt say, "damn, this city doesn't mess around."  My wife saw the new courthouse being constructed this last December when we were in town visiting my family.  She was really impressed and was glad that it incorporated classic court house design in a contemporary building.  This is coming from a woman who was born and raised in Moscow until she moved to Boston at 12 and has been living in NYC the last 13 years.

A lot of people hate the new Cooper Union building because they don't like the way it looks:

but people have to get used to it because it's going to be there for a long time.

Instead of being upset about a building, especially a building that is finally being completed in downtown Jax opposed to proposed buildings that never go anywhere, everyone should say, "OK, that's that, so now where do we go?" Keep on truckin' and doing what you can to improve the city.  I've always thought the Landing was ass ugly, but I don't want it to be torn down.  I think most of the First Baptist buildings are scary and unwelcoming, but I don't want them to be torn down.

Does anyone know what tracts of land the city owns, and what land is privately owned?
Any more word on the land between the Hyatt and the Berkman parking garage and the the use of the old courthouse?

[ChriswUfGator]

It raises the bar.  Instead of people constructing buildings that look like they belong in a suburb — LaVilla School of the Arts, Barnett on West Bay, the Volunteers of America building at Jefferson and West Duval, Sikes & Stowe that's right next to the courthouse, et al. —people will feel more inclined to put up REAL buildings that belong in an urban core.  Not every building needs a front yard with a driveway or street level parking spaces.
Could the 400 million clams have been used in a better way?  Hell yeah.  But guess what, Jax is stuck with a big courthouse, so learn stop worrying and love the bomb.
There's a lot of empty land around this courthouse, so it does stick out a little, but over the years that land will, hopefully, fill up with all kinds of new buildings.  And instead of that area looking odd because there is this grand ol' courthouse, it'll look like a thriving business and government district.
Not everyone is going to agree on aesthetics, but you can't argue the fact that it's a big and impressive building.  When someone who has never been to Jacksonville before sees it they'll no doubt say, "damn, this city doesn't mess around."  My wife saw the new courthouse being constructed this last December when we were in town visiting my family.  She was really impressed and was glad that it incorporated classic court house design in a contemporary building.  This is coming from a woman who was born and raised in Moscow until she moved to Boston at 12 and has been living in NYC the last 13 years.

A lot of people hate the new Cooper Union building because they don't like the way it looks:

but people have to get used to it because it's going to be there for a long time.

Instead of being upset about a building, especially a building that is finally being completed in downtown Jax opposed to proposed buildings that never go anywhere, everyone should say, "OK, that's that, so now where do we go?" Keep on truckin' and doing what you can to improve the city.  I've always thought the Landing was ass ugly, but I don't want it to be torn down.  I think most of the First Baptist buildings are scary and unwelcoming, but I don't want them to be torn down.

Does anyone know what tracts of land the city owns, and what land is privately owned?
Any more word on the land between the Hyatt and the Berkman parking garage and the the use of the old courthouse?

Actually it lowers the bar, unless square footage is your only point of consideration.

I personally value quality of construction more than size, and that is sorely lacking in our courthouse.

[cgaskins]

True.  It should have been built vertically, not horizontally, but like I said before, what's done is done.
Hopefully this will spark interest for people to construct new buildings on the empt land around it.  It also frees up the land the old courthouse was taking up so close to the river.  That block should have hotel, residential, shopping, restaurants, bars.  Not a government building.

[Timkin]

I was never for that frigging ugly monstrosity.. but its there.  I guess I have to accept it. ..Hopefully another good ol boy wont come in to office and say .. No No .. it needs to be rebuilt VERTICALLY on the Riverfront.... I know it probably wont happen , but cmon.. Did we REALLY REALLY need that ? Vertical or Horizontal, or Below Ground.  NO  we did not. not at all.  Lots of other issues should have been addressed.   We are going to have a State-of -the -art  Taj Mahal in a Ghosttown of a downtown.   If that is sensible, please break it down to me, because I DO NOT GET IT.

[cgaskins]

I agree that there was no need to build it.  There are tons of better uses for the money that was used.

[danem]

I was never for that frigging ugly monstrosity.. but its there.  I guess I have to accept it. ..Hopefully another good ol boy wont come in to office and say .. No No .. it needs to be rebuilt VERTICALLY on the Riverfront.... I know it probably wont happen , but cmon.. Did we REALLY REALLY need that ? Vertical or Horizontal, or Below Ground.  NO  we did not. not at all.  Lots of other issues should have been addressed.   We are going to have a State-of -the -art  Taj Mahal in a Ghosttown of a downtown.   If that is sensible, please break it down to me, because I DO NOT GET IT.

When life gives you a courthouse, make courthouse-ade! Hopefully they'll keep an nice looking public space there instead of rebuilding that street in such a silly manner as illustrated in that one Monroe street article, and it will become a popular landpark and public square in the future. If this was a Sim City game I'd suggest adding the DARK green and blue zoning tiles all around it, and see what happens.

[Timkin]

I pray for sensible leadership in Jacksonville.   

[JeffreyS]

Lake when you get home tonight will you email them a master plan?

All they really need to do is think out what to ultimately due with publicly owned property (ex. roads, bikeways, transit, city owned buildings and lots).  All the private sector really needs is regulation change that allows the free market and creativity to take over the development atmosphere.

Listen I get that to you is just a ... but to the people who have been trying to make plans in this city for so long clearly it is rocket science on steroids. So do me a favor send them a plan. Trust me you are way more qualified than the mysterious "them". I think the people who read this site would agree.

[Timkin]

Can I get an AMEN on that ! 

[peestandingup]

-Destroying Lavilla: Hey, what's done is done. Let's move on!
-Destroying the streetcar network: Hey, what's done is done. Let's move on!
-Building the Skyway to nowhere instead of viable light rail: Hey, what's done is done. Let's move on!
-Tearing down over 25% of the historic housing in Springfield: Hey, what's done is done. Let's move on!
-Downtown's awful policies for new businesses: Hey, what's done is done. Let's move on!
-Lack of vision & uncontrolled sprawl until we've become the largest land mass is the US with a half empty core: Hey, what's done is done. Let's move on!

So yeah, in case you're wondering, I'm not really behind the "what's done is done" motto. Too much of that is why we're in such deep shit. It's a lazy attitude. Best to probably prevent these things from happening in the first place, don't ya think??

[JeffreyS]

I know your right Stephen and I know this site is basically submitting ideas to the powers that be all the time.  I bet however if Lake proposed a master plan it would be a good one.

[Demosthenes]

How hard is this!!! First and foremost, there needs to be people living downtown. The problem with that isnt anything other than, there is nowhere for them to live. Lots of empty buildings, and no residents. You put residents downtown, the rest will start to fall into place. (and no, I do not mean higher end crapola places like Berkman. I mean affordable lofts, workforce housing, ect. I guarantee that in this area, you can find 10,000 people who are willing to live downtown. Lets GET them there!!!

Lots of chickens and eggs talked about on this site. I agree people need to be there for anything to happen. A good question is where do you start for getting people to move downtown? When I look for a place to live, I want the essentials somewhere nearby: the grocery store, lots of places to eat out, and close to work. Is any of that in place? My perception is that it's not. Maybe I'm mistaken and it's not clear that it is.

Or maybe the cost of moving downtown needs to be discounted. Free rent for half a year? Who knows.

I firmly believe that there are 10,000 people who would move downtown right now. Some because they are advocates, some because they want access to the bus, some because they just want a place to live, and would live there if there were places.

It may not be 10,000 high earners, or 10,000 yuppies. Just 10,000 residents.

Once you have the people, everything else will fall in place.  You have a voting block, you have advocacy, you have a voice that will call for the very things you guys are all asking for.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

Our group would be a better structure for handling the long range planning of the downtown, if only because of the knowledge that we have gained from actually studying the process and effects of planning in the downtowns over the last century.

I'm going to add one of my more astute comments to the forum today.  The reason that your group would be better suited to handle ANY planning of downtown is because you have the goal of creating a vibrant downtown for future gains and not setting policy for any immediate gain - as is status quo.

[buckethead]

Our group would be a better structure for handling the long range planning of the downtown, if only because of the knowledge that we have gained from actually studying the process and effects of planning in the downtowns over the last century.

I'm going to add one of my more astute comments to the forum today.  The reason that your group would be better suited to handle ANY planning of downtown is because you have the goal of creating a vibrant downtown for future gains and not setting policy for any immediate gain (for a select few real estate pimps) - as is status quo.

Fixed