JTA Responds to Skyway Criticism

[dougskiles]

None are on the drawing board at the moment. We need to pick and choose our battles and expanding the skyway should not be the top mass transit priority right now. Addressing skyway expansion before getting better utilization out of our existing system or a streetcar starter could take down local mass transit in general. JTA has to 2017 to get their act together or risk losing a significant amount current funding. Time to quickly grab some low hanging fruit and incrementally move on from there.

My opinion is that an extension of an existing system would be more prudent than the construction of an entirely new one.  Particularly if developers are ready to put the shovel in the ground on TODs that would support the system.

I love the streetcar idea - but it is one that will require a significant investment by the government to make a reality.  I don't see anyone committing to a large enough development these days that would provide any private funds.  A skyway extension can happen incrementally, from stop to stop - with a TOD at each stop being the driving force.  In addition, there are already opportunities for TODs at existing stations that can help to fund the system.

[Dashing Dan]

We need to pick and choose our battles and expanding the skyway should not be the top mass transit priority right now.

Time to quickly grab some low hanging fruit and incrementally move on from there.

I love the streetcar idea - but it is one that will require a significant investment by the government to make a reality. 

It's not an easy call to make, but I'm siding with dougskiles here. 

Before the streetcar could happen, Jax needs to do something about the skyway.  If extended, the skyway should go across the FEC RR out to Atlantic Blvd in San Marco. 

[Kay]

Actually if it makes you feel any better JTA reads MJ, perhaps they were responding knowing we would pick up the story? Otherwise stjr, as far as conspiracy's that's as close as it gets.[/b]

Well, Ock, you and Lake should get some royalties from JTA.  I would say most of their "white paper" was lifted right off of MJ boards.  Not that I mind, just giving credit where credit is due.

Why do you always write in bold?

[dougskiles]

Why do you always write in bold?

Kay, do you think it odd that both Ock and stjr write in bold?  I think it is because Ock and stjr are the same person.  Alter egos or dopplegangers, if you will.  The question is - which one is the evil twin?

[peestandingup]

Maybe they both just like yelling at us?

[thelakelander]

Doug, Dashing Dan, it's actually quite the opposite. A streetcar, even one from scratch, is significantly cheaper to construct than even extending the skyway incrementally. It would also allow you to do the most important thing for mass transit success in the urban core. That is to actually penetrate dense neighborhoods and destinations that already exist, while creating economic development opportunities along the way. In addition, because of the cost and actual congestion need (at least the Riverside line), the first phase to Park & King would be funded 100% by the mobility plan. Other than that, the annual O&M is cheaper, it integrates better with existing historic neighborhoods and it has a +100 year success record. All in all, if people want to see the skyway expanded, a streetcar complementing it, that's also funded without a tax increase or public referendum is one of the best ways to get there. Neverthess, none of this means the skyway can't be expanded incrementally when the opportunity presents itself. However, without private dollars, it will be significantly more difficult, given it's history, upfront costs, high O&M costs and the fact that other than the Atlantic extension, no funding is in place to do any skyway extension.

[CS Foltz]

Makes sense to me lake..............too bad JTA has not seen the light of rail, but keep pushing BRT! Talk about wasted effort, dollars and resources!

[peestandingup]

Makes sense to me lake..............too bad JTA has not seen the light of rail, but keep pushing BRT! Talk about wasted effort, dollars and resources!

Too bad they didn't invest in rail from the beginning. For the money they spent of the Skyway, it would have made a significant impact even with the initial investment then. By now, it would have probably covered half the city. Doh!

I'd like to know how they chose this thing over light rail? Anyone know who the geniuses were behind this & how it all went down? Where are they now??

[Ocklawaha]

Why do you always write in bold?

Because I can't see much of what I write if I don't! Psst... Just call me Secret Agent Orange! And it's getting worse. As for my evil twin stjr, I seem to recall a post in which he once stated the same thing. I've messed with the view, and zoom but bold seems to make it more comfortable on my eyes. I believe my honorary nephew Josh also suffers from vision problems, so there are at least 3 of us.


OCKLAWAHA

[Ocklawaha]

Maybe they both just like yelling at us?

MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT THIS IS YELLING!

...So this must be modified braille.

OCKLAWAHA

[stjr]

Why do you always write in bold?

Because I can't see much of what I write if I don't! Psst... Just call me Secret Agent Orange! And it's getting worse. As for my evil twin stjr, I seem to recall a post in which he once stated the same thing. I've messed with the view, and zoom but bold seems to make it more comfortable on my eyes. I believe my honorary nephew Josh also suffers from vision problems, so there are at least 3 of us.


OCKLAWAHA

Ock, I agree with you.  On a Skyway thread, no less.    I suggested once before that MJ look at a heavier type font for more contrast but alas this is what we have.  So, its adapt or perish. By they way, Ock, I follow Google's motto of "Do no evil".  Where does that leave you?   

[Ocklawaha]

Doug, Dashing Dan, it's actually quite the opposite. A streetcar, even one from scratch, is significantly cheaper to construct than even extending the skyway incrementally. It would also allow you to do the most important thing for mass transit success in the urban core. That is to actually penetrate dense neighborhoods and destinations that already exist, while creating economic development opportunities along the way. In addition, because of the cost and actual congestion need (at least the Riverside line), the first phase to Park & King would be funded 100% by the mobility plan. Other than that, the annual O&M is cheaper, it integrates better with existing historic neighborhoods and it has a +100 year success record. All in all, if people want to see the skyway expanded, a streetcar complementing it, that's also funded without a tax increase or public referendum is one of the best ways to get there. Neverthess, none of this means the skyway can't be expanded incrementally when the opportunity presents itself. However, without private dollars, it will be significantly more difficult, given it's history, upfront costs, high O&M costs and the fact that other than the Atlantic extension, no funding is in place to do any skyway extension.

It is not a this or that question, the best transit in the world features a healthy mix of modes and choices, which even at it's best is all good transit really is...a CHOICE. A network made up of 3-4 distinct modes, each sharing an equal part of the whole,  which weave and knit the city together like a fine fabric, will always work better then a single modal choice equal to in size to the entire system.  So the answer is YES you build the Skyway ASAP, and YES you build the streetcar ASAP, and the BRT, and the Commuter Rail, and the Water Taxi's, and the true Trolley Bus, Schweeb, Bike Share, etc...

In our case right now, Skyway is funded to Atlantic, and Streetcar from Bay and Newnan to Park and King... As they move into the next phase, engineering, as we are self funding, it is time to apply pressure to extend the Skyway on to the new VA clinic/Shand's and/or East Bay/Stadiums. At the same time we need to start planning the next phase(s) of streetcar. It's time to apply pressure to get a Skywalk connection between Baptist-Aetna and the current "San Marco Skyway Station", and it's time to change the name of that station to "SOUTHBANK," reserving San Marco for the real San Marco. The "s"  is also funded, so time to look beyond Liberty and 21st Street and start thinking North Main-Panama, Busch-Dunn Ave, Airport Road. Streetcar in the next phase breaking out of the city streets at Beaver and Palmetto, and shooting north on old railroad right-of-way to 21st and on to Gateway Mall... Even though this will involve bridging the NILE RIVER, the payback will be myriad, and with Congress stacked in our favor, NOW IS THE TIME TO ACT.

OCKLAWAHA

[Ocklawaha]

Ock, I agree with you.  On a Skyway thread, no less.    I suggested once before that MJ look at a heavier type font for more contrast but alas this is what we have.  So, its adapt or perish. By they way, Ock, I follow Google's motto of "Do no evil".  Where does that leave you?   

Oh I'm no stranger to the evil world of realities, as I told the Country Club here at WGV, "Hell boys, I ain't joining no club that would have me as a member!"

OCKLAWAHA

[stjr]

"Hell boys, I ain't joining no club that would have me as a member!"

Ock, do you realize this is a paraphrase of a quote from a Groucho Marx quote.

I sent the club a wire stating, "PLEASE ACCEPT MY RESIGNATION. I DON'T WANT TO BELONG TO ANY CLUB THAT WILL ACCEPT PEOPLE LIKE ME AS A MEMBER".

    * Telegram to the Friar's Club of Beverly Hills to which he belonged, as recounted in Groucho and Me (1959), p. 321

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Groucho_Marx

[tufsu1]

here's the deal...any hope for a Skyway extension is dead for at least the next 4 yeras...heck, Hogan might try to tear it down to "beautify" Hogan Street downtown!