Landing Starbucks to Close

[Shwaz]

Last time I was at Caps some guy asked the bartender if they had an Oasis machine. The bartender told him they did. The guy asked him if they make a Miami Vice and the bartender said they do... but it's called a "pain in the ass".

Or as I tend to call it an "I'm sorry, we're all out."  Can I pour you a rum and coke or if it's for your 'girlfriend', how about a Malibu and pineapple?

Unless at Dos Gatos... never order anything too extensive.

[tpot]

Wow Greencove Springs has a Starbucks.........downtown JAX........is not WINNING........

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

Unless at Dos Gatos... never order anything too extensive.

This thread is going in a fantastic direction, but completely straying off topic.  I feel a poll later.

Shamus' Rule #3:  To properly consume alcohol you must first, take into consideration the spirit that you plan on consuming, secondly, take into consideration the fellow pouring the spirits and thirdly, take into consideration the spirits of the fellow pouring before consuming anything. 

Translated - don't ever order anything that you wouldn't mind pouring yourself. 

[peestandingup]

starbucks is really pointless.  while anything downtown closing is a bad thing, starbucks is among what we can most afford to lose.

having lived in places without a starbucks, I have to tell you that it sucks.  Independent coffee shops have a tendency to focus more on the entertainment and ambiance and not have trained employees who actually know their barista craft.

Give me a starbucks any day of the week.

I have personally choked down enough poisonous gruel being misidentified as coffee over the years that I will never underestimate the good influence of the starbucks chain.

Hmm, I dunno. Its my experience that the good independents kicks Starbucks' butt any day of the week. They're really hit or miss there. Some locations know their stuff, but a lot are just awful & full of people who I would never call a "barista". They're basically one step away from flipping burgers at the golden arches.

Example: I was in the Five Points location last week, asked the gal to make me a "pour-over" coffee (this is really standard stuff & I've gotten them there before). She looked at me like I was crazy, asked her manager what it was. Manager goes ahead & tells me "Oh, we stopped doing those. The machined drip is just easier & quicker." I shit you not.

Anyways, I got a latte & asked myself why I continued to even come back there. Granted, their drip is consistently decent no matter which location you go (which is prob why they don't venture away from it). And if you like anything flavored besides coffee, you really can't go wrong. But I dont go to coffee shops to drink milk shakes.

But a lot of independents suck too. It really matters where you are. I honestly don't think we have any coffee shops here that are both real cafes AND have bonafide baristas working in them. Three Layers in pretty close & don't get me wrong, I love hanging out there, but they don't really do great coffee & you're pretty much getting machined drip whether you want it or not. It's more about food, cakes & the ambience.

Point is, if you go to a real "coffee city" (Portland, Seattle, San Fran, NYC, New Orleans, DC, all over Europe, etc), the independents smoke Starbucks. The only people that hit up the Starbucks in those areas are usually the tourists.

[fonz]

As a follow-up to my original post, I had lunch with a friend who is heavily invested in the future of downtown.  He indicated that the main factor influencing the Starbucks RE folks was the increasing vacancy rate in the Independent Life building.  

I think corporate RE and development folks for national operations rely heavily on market data and what they hear from their counterparts in other organizations.  Unfortunately, I'm guessing the data and heresy on downtown Jax doesn't look/sound too good (coinciding with a lease maturity) and this decision didn't have much to do with actual revenue from the store.

[peestandingup]

For the record, Chamblins has amazing coffee and at least it's a local owner.  Go there, enjoy your coffee, and forget about Starbucks.  The other one left and they were getting free rent.  Something great will become of our downtown eventually; if only because there is a lot of money to be made.  Then Starbucks will come back and hopefully some landlord charges them double rent like they charge us for burnt coffee :-)

The coffee that is lower quality than what you can get for 10 times less (just picking a number, its probably more like 100) out of a can, and was also beat in a taste test by McDonalds' 4 times less Premium Roast. Proving that Sprite was wrong: Image is everything - Thirst is nothing.

That's because the bloody Starfuck coffee are double roasted, which is a cardinal sin for maintaining the integrity of the taste of the coffee in my opinion. All of the good oil from the coffee bean is lost in the double-roasting process. I only go to Starbuck for their good desert and specialty drinks like white chocolate iced mocha latte lowfat sugarfree.

-Josh

They double-roast (sometimes called "second crack") because its easier & they can keep it more consistent across their locations. But this also scorches the shit out of it & strips away any flavor the bean had. Again, they do this is for uniformity. Pretty much most second cracked beans are gonna end up tasting very similar (burnt).

Next time anyone's there, look inside of the clear canister where the barista works that holds the roasted beans. Anytime you see beans with that have that piercing shimmering "shine" on them (where they almost look wet), they're burnt.

[thelakelander]

Is that other coffee place still on the first floor of the Bank of America tower?

When I worked downtown, that's where I'd often go for a caffeine fix.

Java Junction? Its still there.  Most just don't know it actually exists.  I believe they have two locations downtown.  The other location is in the Enterprise Center.  Unfortunately, you can't see either from the street.

[peestandingup]

starbucks is really pointless.  while anything downtown closing is a bad thing, starbucks is among what we can most afford to lose.

having lived in places without a starbucks, I have to tell you that it sucks.  Independent coffee shops have a tendency to focus more on the entertainment and ambiance and not have trained employees who actually know their barista craft.

Give me a starbucks any day of the week.

I have personally choked down enough poisonous gruel being misidentified as coffee over the years that I will never underestimate the good influence of the starbucks chain.

Hmm, I dunno. Its my experience that the good independents kicks Starbucks' butt any day of the week. They're really hit or miss there. Some locations know their stuff, but a lot are just awful & full of people who I would never call a "barista". They're basically one step away from flipping burgers at the golden arches.

Example: I was in the Five Points location last week, asked the gal to make me a "pour-over" coffee (this is really standard stuff & I've gotten them there before). She looked at me like I was crazy, asked her manager what it was. Manager goes ahead & tells me "Oh, we stopped doing those. The machined drip is just easier & quicker." I shit you not.

Anyways, I got a latte & asked myself why I continued to even come back there. Granted, their drip is consistently decent no matter which location you go (which is prob why they don't venture away from it). And if you like anything flavored besides coffee, you really can't go wrong. But I dont go to coffee shops to drink milk shakes.

But a lot of independents suck too. It really matters where you are. I honestly don't think we have any coffee shops here that are both real cafes AND have bonafide baristas working in them. Three Layers in pretty close & don't get me wrong, I love hanging out there, but they don't really do great coffee & you're pretty much getting machined drip whether you want it or not. It's more about food, cakes & the ambience.

Point is, if you go to a real "coffee city" (Portland, Seattle, San Fran, NYC, New Orleans, DC, all over Europe, etc), the independents smoke Starbucks. The only people that hit up the Starbucks in those areas are usually the tourists.

I actually have a bit of experience in the coffee cities.  I lived in Seattle and San Francisco and worked for a consortium that included corporate starbucks while I was in the Pacific Northwest.

Starbucks spread the gospel of well prepared coffee techniques, and without them as competition, the independents wouldnt have stepped up their game.

Personally I prefer lavazza and sometimes illy espresso beans, but my favorite roaster coffeehouse chain in the world is an outfit called tully's http://www.tullys.com/?ck=1 , which sadly hasnt reached the east coast yet.

I dislike the horrible coffee served up by the completely untrained and uninformed counter service people in most of the coffeehouses of the city.  If it werent for starbucks I would probably switch back to a constant source of l phenylalanine and dl choline.

Jungle Runners was doing some great coffee for a while, and Oscar from Condaxis is probably the most sophisticated coffee guy in the city, but outside of them its just starbucks for me.

Thats very true. Stuff was pretty bad before them, so I gotta hand it to them for at least lighting a fire under some asses.

Yeah, I've met the people at Condaxis. He's pretty awesome. I started getting my green beans there a couple months ago. I haven't tried Bold Bean yet for their beans, although I've heard good things.

BTW, where is Jungle Runners?? Oh, and Pulp in San Marco is actually pretty decent. They do know their techniques, but I've found it to sometimes be hit or miss, depending on who is working that day. And when its a miss, its a BIG miss.

[BridgeTroll]

starbucks is really pointless.  while anything downtown closing is a bad thing, starbucks is among what we can most afford to lose.

having lived in places without a starbucks, I have to tell you that it sucks.  Independent coffee shops have a tendency to focus more on the entertainment and ambiance and not have trained employees who actually know their barista craft.

Give me a starbucks any day of the week.

I have personally choked down enough poisonous gruel being misidentified as coffee over the years that I will never underestimate the good influence of the starbucks chain.

Hmm, I dunno. Its my experience that the good independents kicks Starbucks' butt any day of the week. They're really hit or miss there. Some locations know their stuff, but a lot are just awful & full of people who I would never call a "barista". They're basically one step away from flipping burgers at the golden arches.

Example: I was in the Five Points location last week, asked the gal to make me a "pour-over" coffee (this is really standard stuff & I've gotten them there before). She looked at me like I was crazy, asked her manager what it was. Manager goes ahead & tells me "Oh, we stopped doing those. The machined drip is just easier & quicker." I shit you not.

Anyways, I got a latte & asked myself why I continued to even come back there. Granted, their drip is consistently decent no matter which location you go (which is prob why they don't venture away from it). And if you like anything flavored besides coffee, you really can't go wrong. But I dont go to coffee shops to drink milk shakes.

But a lot of independents suck too. It really matters where you are. I honestly don't think we have any coffee shops here that are both real cafes AND have bonafide baristas working in them. Three Layers in pretty close & don't get me wrong, I love hanging out there, but they don't really do great coffee & you're pretty much getting machined drip whether you want it or not. It's more about food, cakes & the ambience.

Point is, if you go to a real "coffee city" (Portland, Seattle, San Fran, NYC, New Orleans, DC, all over Europe, etc), the independents smoke Starbucks. The only people that hit up the Starbucks in those areas are usually the tourists.

I actually have a bit of experience in the coffee cities.  I lived in Seattle and San Francisco and worked for a consortium that included corporate starbucks while I was in the Pacific Northwest.

Starbucks spread the gospel of well prepared coffee techniques, and without them as competition, the independents wouldnt have stepped up their game.

Personally I prefer lavazza and sometimes illy espresso beans, but my favorite roaster coffeehouse chain in the world is an outfit called tully's http://www.tullys.com/?ck=1 , which sadly hasnt reached the east coast yet.

I dislike the horrible coffee served up by the completely untrained and uninformed counter service people in most of the coffeehouses of the city.  If it werent for starbucks I would probably switch back to a constant source of l phenylalanine and dl choline.

Jungle Runners was doing some great coffee for a while, and Oscar from Condaxis is probably the most sophisticated coffee guy in the city, but outside of them its just starbucks for me.

All this sounds like the perfect opportunity for the right entrepreneur. 

[avonjax]

Honestly. We need an unique store in Jacksonville like IKEA to actually DRAW people to Downtown. There are too many damn Office Deport, Walgreen, etc etc. Those business can build AROUND IKEA. I am desperate for IKEA to be in Jacksonville. It is a huge untouched market for IKEA to tap into it.

-Josh

The amazing thing is how many people have never been to or heard of IKEA. That's not a terrible idea though. I just wonder how they would handle parking.

[finehoe]

It's simple economics.. Jacksonville does not have the demographics to support an IKEA downtown, Town Center or any other commercial area.

I'm not sure why you say this.  IKEA's whole schtick is how cheap they are.  A thread on MJ not long ago asked people why they stayed in Jacksonville, and one of the overwhelming answers was that it is cheap.  Seems like a perfect match.

[tufsu1]

Back to the thread topic....went to the landing starbucks today at 4...5 people sitting and another 5 in line....clearly they are hurting for customers

[Garden guy]

Downtown is toast.  Southside/Tinsletown/Town Center is the new downtown.  At least that's what 95% of the population thinks.

This fact alone tells us that building permits are handed out like candy by our "leaders"..and now look what happened....all of those wonderful land and building deals for the big boys and now we have no downtown...our city is'nt empty...it's not stagnant..we just allowed the money to get in the way of thoughful development...think of all of those office jobs off of JTB being downtown...would'nt that be nice?

[simms3]

I personally think it's completely sad that the one Starbucks in a downtown of a major city is closing because it can't do any business.

Some people have said that the parking is an issue.  It's a friggin walk up across from like 5 large office buildings!!

Some people have said that the construction on Laura caused it to close.  It's a friggin walk up across from like 5 major office buildings and the construction is now donw!!

Some people have had the idea to tear down the Landing and build a parking garage on its site.  I will not even comment to that.

Anyway, 50,000 workers and 3,000 residents nearby cannot support one Starbucks?  We're talking a company that literally does not even need to advertise (which is why it does not advertise).  Sure Starbucks opened too many locations all around years ago and has had to downsize, but our downtown should easily support 2 Starbucks!

I tell you, Jacksonville really is poor town.  POOR town.  Independents are more expensive than Starbucks, though, so where the hell does everyone get coffee??  There's an independent upscale coffee shop in my office building that's like 2-3x as expensive as Starbucks.

Reading the FTU comments on this about how it closed because of lack of parking really made me think about the intelligence level going on down there.  Aside from the unfortunate strip center locations where Starbucks still tries desperately to make the store open up with outdoor seating and the like, Starbucks prefers urban walk-up locations.  Duh (hits head).

I mean, really, there are 4 Starbucks within walking distance of me (a few blocks or less) in addition to local coffee shops like Octane (which also serves wine/liquors at night), and all are open til at least Midnight and all are crowded at every hour they are open.  Starbucks is like one of those magical places where high-level business talk/decisions are made, students are doing homework, and people of every age, ethnicity, and religion convene.  I guess Jacksonville is not even ready for one of these kinds of stores.

[peestandingup]

starbucks is really pointless.  while anything downtown closing is a bad thing, starbucks is among what we can most afford to lose.

having lived in places without a starbucks, I have to tell you that it sucks.  Independent coffee shops have a tendency to focus more on the entertainment and ambiance and not have trained employees who actually know their barista craft.

Give me a starbucks any day of the week.

I have personally choked down enough poisonous gruel being misidentified as coffee over the years that I will never underestimate the good influence of the starbucks chain.

Hmm, I dunno. Its my experience that the good independents kicks Starbucks' butt any day of the week. They're really hit or miss there. Some locations know their stuff, but a lot are just awful & full of people who I would never call a "barista". They're basically one step away from flipping burgers at the golden arches.

Example: I was in the Five Points location last week, asked the gal to make me a "pour-over" coffee (this is really standard stuff & I've gotten them there before). She looked at me like I was crazy, asked her manager what it was. Manager goes ahead & tells me "Oh, we stopped doing those. The machined drip is just easier & quicker." I shit you not.

Anyways, I got a latte & asked myself why I continued to even come back there. Granted, their drip is consistently decent no matter which location you go (which is prob why they don't venture away from it). And if you like anything flavored besides coffee, you really can't go wrong. But I dont go to coffee shops to drink milk shakes.

But a lot of independents suck too. It really matters where you are. I honestly don't think we have any coffee shops here that are both real cafes AND have bonafide baristas working in them. Three Layers in pretty close & don't get me wrong, I love hanging out there, but they don't really do great coffee & you're pretty much getting machined drip whether you want it or not. It's more about food, cakes & the ambience.

Point is, if you go to a real "coffee city" (Portland, Seattle, San Fran, NYC, New Orleans, DC, all over Europe, etc), the independents smoke Starbucks. The only people that hit up the Starbucks in those areas are usually the tourists.

I actually have a bit of experience in the coffee cities.  I lived in Seattle and San Francisco and worked for a consortium that included corporate starbucks while I was in the Pacific Northwest.

Starbucks spread the gospel of well prepared coffee techniques, and without them as competition, the independents wouldnt have stepped up their game.

Personally I prefer lavazza and sometimes illy espresso beans, but my favorite roaster coffeehouse chain in the world is an outfit called tully's http://www.tullys.com/?ck=1 , which sadly hasnt reached the east coast yet.

I dislike the horrible coffee served up by the completely untrained and uninformed counter service people in most of the coffeehouses of the city.  If it werent for starbucks I would probably switch back to a constant source of l phenylalanine and dl choline.

Jungle Runners was doing some great coffee for a while, and Oscar from Condaxis is probably the most sophisticated coffee guy in the city, but outside of them its just starbucks for me.

All this sounds like the perfect opportunity for the right entrepreneur. 

I agree.