Salvaging The Skyway

[Shwaz]

At least expand it to the sports complex, then watch the ridership increase 10 fold.

I don't think so.  Most of the time there's nothing going on east of Liberty St.  Are there really enough events at the sports complex to justify the cost?

I think so, we have the Jags and at the arena we have the Sharks and the Giants. We also have the Suns. There can be concerts the arena as well. I believe it would idea maybe increasing ridership 10 fold was a wishfull exaggeration. But if it goes down bay st I'd put a stop where the Annex building stands today, in order to serve the growing scene on east bay st.

Next month alone there are 20 events being held between the Arena, Met-Park and the Baseball Grounds.
http://www.jaxevents.com/veteransmemorial.php
http://www.jaxevents.com/baseballgrounds.php
http://www.coj.net/Departments/Recreation+and+Community+Services/Recreation+and+Community+Programming/Recreation+Activities/Metropolitan+Park/Upcoming+Events.htm

[dougskiles]

So basically, you need to get the RIGHT mayor in there to yank the scrapegoats in JTA and make them run for their executive lives, then hire the right folks to do what you said.

I agree that JTA and the mayor could do much more.  But let's not forget that the leadership in our city is, and always will be, a reflection of what the general population wants.

By looking at voting records, we can see that the overwhelming desire of the citizens of Jacksonville is to pay the least amount of taxes as possible.  Government and everything associated with it is seen as the most evil form of life on earth.  I kind of wish we could have a day where we got to see exactly what our city would look like without any public services.  No electricity, no running water, kids wandering the streets aimlessly, endless traffic jams...

I bet the loudest complaints would come from the most vocal anti-tax people.

Well, depending on how this next election turns out, we may just get to live this day over and over for 4 years.

[Ocklawaha]

In 1984, my wife and I were supping with one of our favorite couples in our little Arlington home. He was a power broker in the Jacksonville Chamber of Commerce, and our conversation turned to the proposed football team. I laughed and said, "Really? What do you think the chances are that we'll ever get a team?"  He leaned forward to highlight the secrecy of his message, put a finger to his lips and said, "Shhh, Bob it's a DONE DEAL..." Indeed!

COULD THERE BE A RAINBOW'S END TO THE UNFINISHED SKYWAY STORY...

I think expansion to the stadium right behind an expansion to San Marco at Atlantic would cure any ridership problems. The Stadium line down Bay. is a simple matter for operations, M-F that line could operate as far as Maxwell House/Shipyards III, AND during event days/hours operate as a convenience tool for dispersal of parking. Events would equate to a full system operation all the way to Randolph Av or Everbank Field. Concurrent with the expansions, JTA needs to seriously consider new trains, hopefully with walk through vestibules between cars which allows a single transit officer to police the entire train. Hitachi makes such cars.

There is a model of this Hitachi monorail train sitting on the table in the Skyway Executive Office.

This little diagram should be enough to demonstrate how Bay Street could be reborn into a pedestrian friendly boulevard with the addition of the monorail east. It is currently impossible to hand off the downtown bus loop to the monorail, because everything east of Hogan would be left to rot on the vine. In the grand scheme of things the vintage and heritage streetcars would cross this route at Bay and Newnan. After all, if monorail and streetcar are completed to the entertainment district - we wouldn't need Bay Street to look like a freaking freeway with more arrows aimed at it then Cupid's whorehouse.

To those that doubt the SKYWAY will ever get finished please, The Lakelander and I have pounded this home again and again, so read our lips and repeat after me... "DONE DEAL," "DONE DEAL," "DONE DEAL," DITTO FOR THE STREETCAR.



OCKLAWAHA

[Ocklawaha]

http://www.4shared.com/embed/112924985/fd647513

A little Skyway music to LIFT your spirits...

OCKLAWAHA

[jaxlore]

Great ideas. What will it take to get lake and ock on the JTA board?

[CS Foltz]

Yes Mam and then some! Of course something as simple as fixing the turn stiles or posting people to keep people from riding for free might be nice! Never have understood just how JTA could post accurate figures regarding RIDERSHIP without making them up or using a crystal ball or cutting cards or what ever! The concept of 3k riders per day is mythical to say the least!

[dougskiles]

JTA counts the riders when they get on the train - not at the turnstile.  It is part of the 'automated' system.

[CS Foltz]

Back to my premise............how many of the 3k are paying customers? Something is not right big fella!

[fsujax]

Who cares if they are paying customers! the Skyway should be free, eliminate the turnstiles!

[CS Foltz]

Well.....taxpayers allready subsidize it..............I don't have a problem with free.........I have a problem with prefabed or incorrect figures! Making it the original designed length would be nice also, but the chance of the City funding that are nil! Federal dollars would require alot more data, that is correct, than what is being published!

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

Based on what I've read on this site, the skyway was set up to fail.  The original budget of $XXX included the infrastructure for a system much larger than the one that have today, and it included all the bells and whistles that were both for future advances and some of them unneeded.  After the money ran out, the ridership wasn't what it was supposed to be, the system never was finishished and everyone re-located away from DT, the Skyway becomes a really hard sell. 

The fact is that using the original numbers for expansion today is laughable because the city already paid for it.  To expand the system now, have Lake or Ock quote the $$, is substantially lower than the original costs.  If you want to increase the ridership, you have to have it go where the people are.  If you want to continue to increase the ridership, you have to have it go where you plan on people being 10-20 years from now.  We have people in San Marco, we have people in 5 Pts.  We have people in Brentwood.  We can expand it to these areas now and make it viable.  The biggest challenge that I see is extending it to where everyone will be in a decade.

[dougskiles]

Well.....taxpayers allready subsidize it..............I don't have a problem with free.........I have a problem with prefabed or incorrect figures! Making it the original designed length would be nice also, but the chance of the City funding that are nil! Federal dollars would require alot more data, that is correct, than what is being published!

I'm not directing this at you CS Foltz - but this whole 'taxpayers subsidizing' talk drives me crazy.  ALL forms of publicly operated transportation systems are taxpayer subsidized.  At least the way I understand the word 'subsidized'.  The only activities that are not 'subsidized' are the ones that require no financial support from any public source of money.  I think it would be very difficult to find anything that is not 'subsidized' in some form.  Schools are subsidized, food is subsidized, our military is subsidized (100% BTW), air travel is subsidized.

[stjr]

After the money ran out, the ridership wasn't what it was supposed to be, the system never was finishished and everyone re-located away from DT, the Skyway becomes a really hard sell.  

This is incorrect.  Ridership, after two decades, remains some 90% below projections for what has actually been built.  Those projections have nothing to do with running out of money (if only it would and then the Skyway would finally be kaput) or not building more sections.  In my opinion, the lack of riders mostly reflects the original infeasibility and continued implausibility of the Skyway concept.  As to people downtown, the Skyway was suppose to attract them.  It's failure to do so is just another of its failed promises.

If you want to increase the ridership, you have to have it go where the people are.  If you want to continue to increase the ridership, you have to have it go where you plan on people being 10-20 years from now.  We have people in San Marco, we have people in 5 Pts.  We have people in Brentwood.  We can expand it to these areas now and make it viable.  The biggest challenge that I see is extending it to where everyone will be in a decade.

Westsider, you are making part of my point.  The Skyway is not designed or capable of either going to all the neighborhoods you advocate for or penetrating them to the extent you suggest.  Aside from pathway issues, historic and residential areas are not going to accept the Skyway monstrosity plodding through their neighborhoods. Nor is it cost effective or operationally efficient for the Skyway to cover much longer distances than currently exists.  I think you will find Ock and Lake will at least agree on these points based on their prior posts.

So, as you say, if the Skyway can't be expanded to places you believe "where everyone will be in a decade" it won't be viable.  That's one of many reasons to kill it.  We are now rowing in the same direction!

[thelakelander]

The easiest and most affordable thing to do at this time is to fully integrate it with the current mass transit system and let it operate as it was originally designed to do.  What do we have to lose?  Are we really afraid of increased ridership and a reduction of JTA O&M costs?

[Ocklawaha]

Westsider, true that the Skyway could be much, much more then it is today. As Lake has pointed out, a simple integration into the fabric of downtown would do wonders for the little system. Covered walks between significant buildings along the route to tie with the stations. The one part of our transit system that should be operating on a nearly 24/7 basis, is the most neglected portion by JTA, get her operating.  Fling open the doors to the stations for licensed vendors and shops. Make the Skyway a center piece and "home office" for downtown ambassadors. Make it a key link in the bus, water taxi and streetcar system. Recognize that the Skyway is more like "Bridgton and Saco River Railway," then it is the CSX or AMTRAK. The animal is tamable, it will just take some will to make it happen.

OCKLAWAHA

* "Bridgton and Saco River Railway," Or the B & SR, known almost universally as the "BUSTED AND STILL RUNNING."