Chat: Mayoral Debate - Growth and the Environment

[futurejax]

Mike Hogan would be an unmitigated disaster for this town

[urbaknight]

Agreed

[stjr]

Just ask Tri-Rail about the federal payback clause! They have a first hand account, with the a nasty little letter from FTA's (Peter Rogoff) when they suggested making major cutbacks to service.

Was Tri-rail built as a Federal demonstration/test project for the entire country like the Skyway so that if it failed it did the country a favor to show it doesn't work?  Should a local community forever subsidize a national experiment?  Does the commitment not diminish to zero over some period of time at least?

Is Tri-rail as old as the Skyway or a relatively new project lacking fulfillment of even a short term portion of the promised and proper commitment from the locals? Even at that, other than a perfunctory FTA letter, does anyone actually think real dollars would change hands?  Has it ever happened anywhere else, even when threats by the Feds are made?  Or is all this just so much blustering?

[thelakelander]

Would you rather lose $7 million a year on something a thousand people a day use or on a transit that ten thousand a day use?  That's what it comes down to.

This is more of an operational issue, as opposed to mode.  For example, if you eliminate the duplicate bus services running downtown and force all transit users in the DT area to use the skyway and transfer to local buses at the skyway's end points, ridership will shoot up dramatically and the overall transit network's O&M would fall.

[Noone]

Just ask Tri-Rail about the federal payback clause! They have a first hand account, with the a nasty little letter from FTA's (Peter Rogoff) when they suggested making major cutbacks to service.

Was Tri-rail built as a Federal demonstration/test project for the entire country like the Skyway so that if it failed it did the country a favor to show it doesn't work?  Should a local community forever subsidize a national experiment?  Does the commitment not diminish to zero over some period of time at least?

Is Tri-rail as old as the Skyway or a relatively new project lacking fulfillment of even a short term portion of the promised and proper commitment from the locals? Even at that, other than a perfunctory FTA letter, does anyone actually think real dollars would change hands?  Has it ever happened anywhere else, even when threats by the Feds are made?  Or is all this just so much blustering?

fsujax can you expand on the Tri Rail. What are you saying about the Federal money?  Good or bad in your opinion? I know someone that is going to try the Tri Rail and go from West Palm to Miami for the first time and try this service. I'll be one of the first to say that I don't fully understand the issue.

But stjr if at the very least the the new JTA transportation hub is scratched then how many millions would then be immediately freed up for a street car route. I can't help but think a street car route from the Prime Osborn down Bay street to the stadium should be a priority. It can only help an Entertainment District.

Still trying to wrap my arms around this issue. I know throw in the mobility plan too.

[tufsu1]

There was a threat a few years back that TriRail was going to be shut down (they had no dedicated source of funding and the Legislature wasn't being helpful)...when they asked the Feds, they were told "yes, you'll have to pay back the Federal money"

[dougskiles]

Was Tri-rail built as a Federal demonstration/test project for the entire country like the Skyway so that if it failed it did the country a favor to show it doesn't work?  Should a local community forever subsidize a national experiment?  Does the commitment not diminish to zero over some period of time at least?
b]

Is that true?  Nobody else in the country has an elevated train system in an urban area that works?  Miami has a people mover - is it a failure?  Are they talking about taking it down?  Didn't Indy recently build one?

Ours is a failure of the entire transit system, not one piece of it (which happens to be the only piece we have).  Imagine how different things would be if we spent our BJP dollars on commuter rail instead of overpasses.

[thelakelander]

Yes, the skyway was built as an urban peoplemover demonstration project along with Detroit's Peoplemover and Miami's Metromover.  Miami's metromover has enjoyed the most success because they actually did what they were supposed to do, which is build a regional mass transit system (Metrorail, Tri-Rail, etc.) to feed riders into it.  Since it's opening, it has been expanded and is now fare free to use.  Also, either Detroit or Miami are talking about shutting their systems down.  Detroit is talking about connecting it to their privately funded LRT line that is expected to break ground pretty soon.