A Case For Downtown Jacksonville

[Wacca Pilatka]

Stephen you bring up some great points, sometimes I think jax is more diverse than people realize.

Often I think Jax is more diverse than people realize.  And more beautiful.  And more exciting.  And more historically significant.  And more blessed with a plethora of things to do.

[jcjohnpaint]

And I would say that the downtown is really one of the only things I might bitch about.  Since I have been here (and not for too long) this city is very diverse and there is lots of art.  Since art is my field it means a lot to me, but since I have moved here I can't tell you how many artists and such I have met.  I think Artwalk is an example of this.  I do smell some really bad corruption.  I have heard many different reasons and I am not sure, but I am just saying.  Once the corruption is gone we will see a grand downtown once again.

[Jaxson]

And I would say that the downtown is really one of the only things I might bitch about.  Since I have been here (and not for too long) this city is very diverse and there is lots of art.  Since art is my field it means a lot to me, but since I have moved here I can't tell you how many artists and such I have met.  I think Artwalk is an example of this.  I do smell some really bad corruption.  I have heard many different reasons and I am not sure, but I am just saying.  Once the corruption is gone we will see a grand downtown once again.

I hope that you are right about seeing a grand downtown once again.

[Bewler]

Peestandingup, you just made a great and obvious point that I’ve sadly never even considered. I’m certainly no expert on how it works, but if our borders were smaller wouldn’t it be easier to focus and prioritize problems and decide where to spend money on improvements? So you’re not dealing with questions like “Actually fix San Marco and Main St. in a timely manner or make plans to construct an outer loop?” Also, when you consider its size, Jacksonville is not dense at all. Do we really have enough taxpaying citizens within our city limits to properly sustain this enormous boundary?

Lest we forget one of the main causes of the Roman Empire’s decline. Enemy forces in Georgia and St Augustine will surely invade if we’re not careful!

[peestandingup]

Peestandingup, you just made a great and obvious point that I’ve sadly never even considered. I’m certainly no expert on how it works, but if our borders were smaller wouldn’t it be easier to focus and prioritize problems and decide where to spend money on improvements? So you’re not dealing with questions like “Actually fix San Marco and Main St. in a timely manner or make plans to construct an outer loop?” Also, when you consider its size, Jacksonville is not dense at all. Do we really have enough taxpaying citizens within our city limits to properly sustain this enormous boundary?

Lest we forget one of the main causes of the Roman Empire’s decline. Enemy forces in Georgia and St Augustine will surely invade if we’re not careful!

Yeah, it's out of control & certainly has a negative impact on the kind of stuff we talk about on here. The scary part is, none of the politicians or anyone else higher up ever talks about it. And you would think they would, since it's like you say, such an obvious thing. I don't understand the purpose of overextending ourselves like we have.

If you'll notice that on every MetroJacksonville article that compares Jax to other more urban cities, they'll do a city boundary overlay of ours vs the comparison city, and we ALWAYS blow them away with our massive boundaries. It's almost comical it's so big. Yet a lot of those places have just as big a population.

It's no secret here I'm sure & it's the reason they do those map overlays in the first place, but it begs to be reiterated over & over. It's really the root of our problem here & it seems to be getting worse (with talks of outer loops & so much development going up in the 'burbs here).

Jacksonville really is sorta the poster child for a city that had it all, with nice consolidated boundaries but traded it all for out of control sprawl. And I don't believe the core will ever fully recover until it stops & we wrangle some of it back in. Unfortunately, that isn't happening & seems to be just the opposite. Oh, we're "growing", but not the right way.

[Steve_Lovett]

Thanks to MetroJacksonville for publishing this. 

I wrote this originally as part of my work on the Chamber's Board of Governors Downtown Task Force, as an internal document to provide our committee "talking points" - and I'm glad its been more widely circulated and discussed.  Effective advocacy for downtown needs to articulate to the entire city why downtown's revitalization is an important regional priority.  I think a compelling case statement has been missing -- it's the reason I prepared this document.  Perhaps the lack of an articulate case for downtown is partly to blame for why many plans and white papers have come and gone without effective implementation, action, and follow-through.

Downtown will always exist, and if we pursue proper, sustainable policy and invest in our downtown it will be an economic, social, and cultural engine for the entire city of Jacksonville.  Or, if not, the suburban residential tax base throughout the city will forever underwrite and subsidize it's underutilized infrastructure, social services, etc.  Policy decisions in the near term will likely determine which path the city takes.

[dougskiles]

We also need to break the political grip the industries promoting sprawl have on our city.  Otherwise, it doesn't matter how great our plans are and how badly we want them to succeed.  Those in power will continue to make decisions and spend money promoting development further away from downtown.

[Steve_Lovett]

We also need to break the political grip the industries promoting sprawl have on our city.  Otherwise, it doesn't matter how great our plans are and how badly we want them to succeed.  Those in power will continue to make decisions and spend money promoting development further away from downtown.

Implementing good policy and the commitment to following the policy is paramount.  It's not the path of least resistance, and will require civic buy-in and investment. 

[tufsu1]

Stephen....that works for the fiscal conservative mindset...it does not work for the neo-con (which isn't really an issue at the local level) or the religious conservative (which clearly is an issue for some) mindsets.

How stupid of me, TUFSU, i thought we were talking about downtown.  I had no idea that it wasnt at the local level.

agreed....how "stupid" of you to ignore the second half of my sentence.

[ronchamblin]

     Our city core’s journey from a semi ghost town with high vacancies in the  residential, retail, entertainment, cultural, and commercial arenas to a fully occupied vibrant city is a long one, and it is stalled.  I wonder occasionally about the major factors causing the stalled condition.  The state of the economy is suspect, but it is for the most part a stable platform upon which all the other factors can perform or fail, and probably should not be looked upon as a significant cause, which, if identified as such, might unfortunately offer some of us a tendency to wait for a better economy while we should be constantly focusing and acting on the real factors causing stagnation. 

     During the years of relative stagnation, the mayor and city council have been replaced several times.  Groups, councils, and forums have had over the years many discussions.  Many “things” have been done, some of them very necessary to at least make the city core as attractive as possible in spite of the building vacancies and lack of “people”; conditions which are presented to anyone who visits with the purpose of spending money, or investing with a business or a resident.  This is the state of stagnation in the city core, and nothing on the horizon offers hope of anything better any time soon.

     The continuing stagnation, which so far has not responded to the energies of all concerned, indicates that there are some important issues and factors which have escaped our recognition.  They are surely subtle, almost unseen, factors, but the fact of the continued stagnation indicates that they are also formidable.  They are formidable because they have defeated all attempts to bring vibrancy to our city core.

     It is my belief that it is possible to bring vibrancy to our city core if we recognize, identify, and neutralize these subtle but powerful factors.  Stephen and others have touched upon these factors while discussing the problem of core stagnation.

     The terms used were “Stupidity” and “Greed”.  To these I would add terms like “Ignorance”, “Lack of Vision”, “Selfishness”,  “Complacency”, “Self-Centered”, and “Power-Seeking”. 

     There are some intelligent, dedicated, and excellent individuals working in the environment set with the objective of bringing vibrancy to the city core.  But one or two dedicated and effective individuals working against dozens of influential individuals who possess a little too much of what we call ignorance, a smattering of stupidity, a good bit of selfishness, a great amount of greed, and too much complacency; and because of these afflictions, absolutely no vision, the result is stagnation, which is a condition of no movement toward any desired destination.  One cannot have vision for worthwhile community and city goals when one is blinded by greed and selfishness, obsessed with power, and weakened by stupidity and ignorance. 

     The fact of the continuing stagnation of city core development indicates that we’ve had for too long, too many individuals possessing the above useless and destructive characteristics within our city government, within our council, within various agencies and groups.  I can only say that I do not envy those few dedicated individuals who are restrained by having to work alongside these individuals.

     I hope that the voters in the upcoming elections will, by educating themselves and garnering their wisdom, vote out the ignorant, the stupid, the greedy, the selfish, the visionless, and allow fresh blood into our city government.     

     If it is true that most city governments accumulate a population of elected and hired individuals, too large a segment of which, having the undesirable characteristics as outlined above, why is it so?  Is it true that most individuals who run for office want power or status -- to sit comfortably upon an elected position, and this as an end objective?  If they can speak well, like a preacher, and tell a good story, are reasonably good looking, and have a nice name, have had connections, and perhaps have money to buy more posters and TV than most, they can get elected -- even though they are basically ignorant, a little stupid, greedy, selfish, and totally without creativity or vision.

      It must be.  There is, within the structure of our city’s broad governmental environment, a substructure of habitual and accepted mediocrity, of entangled favoritism, of too many influential individuals, inside and outside of our city government, who, by their possession of the above human characteristics, hold our city hostage to their failures, their selfishness, and they should not only be ashamed, they should eject themselves into the private sector so that others, who are intelligent and creative, and care about our city, can do what needs to be done.

     You don’t want to know how I really feel.


Give a man a fish, and he will eat for a day.  Give him a religion, and he will starve to death while praying for a fish.

[tufsu1]

um.  really?  Well I don't normally 'respond' to pointless predicates, my dear friend. However other, better expressed people did bring it up later in the conversation, at which point I did respond with my opinion on the subject.  If you feel sleighted, my apologies for not taking time to respond to all the various parts of speech contained in your hopelessly compounded sentence.  Hopefully the later replies will pacify your needs.

sure do...sorry, I was a bit busy with work today

[Steve_Lovett]

     Our city core’s journey from a semi ghost town with high vacancies in the  residential, retail, entertainment, cultural, and commercial arenas to a fully occupied vibrant city is a long one, and it is stalled.  I wonder occasionally about the major factors causing the stalled condition.  The state of the economy is suspect, but it is for the most part a stable platform upon which all the other factors can perform or fail, and probably should not be looked upon as a significant cause, which, if identified as such, might unfortunately offer some of us a tendency to wait for a better economy while we should be constantly focusing and acting on the real factors causing stagnation. 

     During the years of relative stagnation, the mayor and city council have been replaced several times.  Groups, councils, and forums have had over the years many discussions.  Many “things” have been done, some of them very necessary to at least make the city core as attractive as possible in spite of the building vacancies and lack of “people”; conditions which are presented to anyone who visits with the purpose of spending money, or investing with a business or a resident.  This is the state of stagnation in the city core, and nothing on the horizon offers hope of anything better any time soon.

     The continuing stagnation, which so far has not responded to the energies of all concerned, indicates that there are some important issues and factors which have escaped our recognition.  They are surely subtle, almost unseen, factors, but the fact of the continued stagnation indicates that they are also formidable.  They are formidable because they have defeated all attempts to bring vibrancy to our city core.

     It is my belief that it is possible to bring vibrancy to our city core if we recognize, identify, and neutralize these subtle but powerful factors.  Stephen and others have touched upon these factors while discussing the problem of core stagnation.

     The terms used were “Stupidity” and “Greed”.  To these I would add terms like “Ignorance”, “Lack of Vision”, “Selfishness”,  “Complacency”, “Self-Centered”, and “Power-Seeking”. 

     There are some intelligent, dedicated, and excellent individuals working in the environment set with the objective of bringing vibrancy to the city core.  But one or two dedicated and effective individuals working against dozens of influential individuals who possess a little too much of what we call ignorance, a smattering of stupidity, a good bit of selfishness, a great amount of greed, and too much complacency; and because of these afflictions, absolutely no vision, the result is stagnation, which is a condition of no movement toward any desired destination.  One cannot have vision for worthwhile community and city goals when one is blinded by greed and selfishness, obsessed with power, and weakened by stupidity and ignorance. 

     The fact of the continuing stagnation of city core development indicates that we’ve had for too long, too many individuals possessing the above useless and destructive characteristics within our city government, within our council, within various agencies and groups.  I can only say that I do not envy those few dedicated individuals who are restrained by having to work alongside these individuals.

     I hope that the voters in the upcoming elections will, by educating themselves and garnering their wisdom, vote out the ignorant, the stupid, the greedy, the selfish, the visionless, and allow fresh blood into our city government.     

     If it is true that most city governments accumulate a population of elected and hired individuals, too large a segment of which, having the undesirable characteristics as outlined above, why is it so?  Is it true that most individuals who run for office want power or status -- to sit comfortably upon an elected position, and this as an end objective?  If they can speak well, like a preacher, and tell a good story, are reasonably good looking, and have a nice name, have had connections, and perhaps have money to buy more posters and TV than most, they can get elected -- even though they are basically ignorant, a little stupid, greedy, selfish, and totally without creativity or vision.

      It must be.  There is, within the structure of our city’s broad governmental environment, a substructure of habitual and accepted mediocrity, of entangled favoritism, of too many influential individuals, inside and outside of our city government, who, by their possession of the above human characteristics, hold our city hostage to their failures, their selfishness, and they should not only be ashamed, they should eject themselves into the private sector so that others, who are intelligent and creative, and care about our city, can do what needs to be done.

     You don’t want to know how I really feel.


Give a man a fish, and he will eat for a day.  Give him a religion, and he will starve to death while praying for a fish.

Thoughtfully considered and well written.  Thank you.

[Dashing Dan]

What I see downtown looks like the cumulative outcome of years of logrolling, as in I'll support your downtown infrastructure project (e.g. at Prime Osborn) if you'll support mine (e.g. at Metropolitan Park).  Before doing anything else, the city should obtain a realistic forecast of total number of employees or residents downtown in 10 or 20 years, and then plan public investments to support that number.  Last year's white paper was a step in that direction.

[ronchamblin]

Thanks Steve, for your toleration of my rant of yesterday evening.  I must restrain my tendency to get on a roll about certain principles and possibilities, and sometimes my mood at the time takes things too far, to the point of abrasiveness and insensitivity,  and to the point of being against my thoughts of a later mood.
I think there are some good points in what I have written.  However, reality is more complex than the scenario I’ve suggested, and therefore I suggest any readers might realize that my broad brush strokes, although painting an interesting or fun picture, resulted in a picture of simplicity and error, and one having too abrasive a slant, so that the most benefit was to me, as it only satisfied my need to vent my frustrations about our scenario of stagnation.
In the future, I must restrain my tendency to vent on this very instructive and valuable forum at MJ.  Although it is occasionally fun to vent frustration, one must be careful with unintentional harshness and possibly erroneous assumptions affecting those who might be the most effective and dedicated individuals we have in our city environment. 


Give a man a fish, and you will feed him for the day.  Give him a religion, and he will starve to death while he prays for a fish.

[Expree]

Informative article Mr. lovette.  Thanks for the points of view.