Digital billboards signal battle on Jacksonville regulations

[vicupstate]

Wouldn't a city be better served by advertising dollars being spent in ways that will support the local newspapers, magazines, sport teams, TV statiions, online services like MJ and other sources?   

[Singejoufflue]

I think we need to be clear on "signage".  I despise billboards but am in favor of signage on buildings/sandwich boards, etc.  If these digital billboards were simple and clean, more of a logo with contact info, that would be one thing, but I don't imagine that will be the case.  At an 8 second turn over, we are effectively talking about televisions on the side of the road... 

[stjr]

I think that the billboards down I-4 in Orlando, many of them digital, don't speak well of that City.  It looks honky-tonk to me.  But, since Orlando is an everyman tourists capital,  it may look a little less out of place.  Similarly, that's why signs may also work for Las Vegas and Times Square.  I also see "newer" parts of International drive featuring more green and higher quality aesthetics than the older sections and wonder if Orlando hasn't moved to reign in some of its signage.

For those who support tourism here, we should decide what our niche is.  If it is ecotourism, upscale resorts, corporate meeting/executive oriented, etc., I think that clientele is looking for less outward commercialism, not more.  I don't think the folks in Ponte Vedra or Amelia Island would think billboards would be necessary to improve their economies.

If the rules are too strict in the minds of some for downtown, then create an urban zone, and customize something "tasteful" and appropriate for that.  Rather than reinvent the wheel, why don't we look at what some urban areas we "admire" are doing.  Personally, I would rather see us prioritize more greenery downtown than signs and believe that would do more to attract people.  

Keep in mind, too, the new "signs on the go" are to be found on smartphones.  With ads oriented in real time around where you are standing that you "seek out", advertisers may be less enamored with billboards in the future anyway.

[Bativac]

If the rules are too strict in the minds of some for downtown, then create an urban zone, and customize something "tasteful" and appropriate for that.  Rather than reinvent the wheel, why don't we look at what some urban areas we "admire" are doing.  Personally, I would rather see us prioritize more greenery downtown than signs and believe that would do more to attract people.  

I think I feel exactly the opposite to this. I don't think prioritizing greenery downtown is going to attract anybody, especially in a city as big as Jax and as full of park spaces that are easier to get to and offer ample parking. What are people going to do with greenery? Walk around and look at it? Then drive back to the Southside or Riverside for lunch. Plus you have the city paying to install greenery that, let's face it, is going to be neglected (have you seen how the grassy medians near the urban core are maintained) and eventually give a zombie apocalypse look to downtown.

Signage is one of those things that, in my opinion (I guess I have to add that in there), adds the appearance of vitality to an area. Younger people such as myself and my peers see signage and think, "gee, there are restaurants and interesting shops in this area. There are things other than sterile half empty office buildings and parking garages."

I will agree that billboards plastered along, say, JTB or the long stretches of I-95 surrounded by foliage are less than desirable. But as far as downtown Jax is concerned, there is nothing pristine down there that restricting signage is going to protect. You aren't going to have a "natural Florida" bustling downtown area. You have Confederate Park and other existing areas that can be cleaned and maintained to provide that natural feel. Downtown desperately needs some kind of injection of urban life and vitality.

As it is, it looks like someplace where middle aged overweight white guys (yeah, I said it! I'll be one myself in fifteen or 20 years!) go to hang out in their office buildings from 9 to 5, then lock the place up and take the keys with 'em when they leave. It looks like a giant office park, not an urban environment.

Sort of like say UNF of the 1990s and 2000s compared to, oh, Georgia Tech or George Washington University.

[Jdog]

Street signs that scroll, change every 8 seconds approved by Jacksonville City Council

By Steve Patterson
Jacksonville's City Council approved electronic sign rules Tuesday that had divided business interests and some neighborhood leaders who said roadways would become uglier and more dangerous.

The language that split the groups will allow sign messages to change every eight seconds and to feature "scrolling" announcements that crawl across a screen.

Related: Florida gave away 2,094 state-owned trees to make room for billboards

City officials once interpreted Jacksonville's sign laws as allowing changes every three minutes but later concluded that standard was unenforceable because of garbled wording.

Advocates said the new measure, Bill 2010-900, prevents rapid-fire changes but left businesses, schools and churches that owned electric signs flexibility to use them effectively.

"I think we should caution ourselves not to over-regulate. This is reasonable regulation," said Councilman Dick Brown , the bill's sponsor.

His bill was supported in earlier hearings by the advertising industry and a range of small businesses, some of whom said they need to change their messages frequently to convey long messages to passing motorists.

Advocates for stronger restrictions won support from many neighborhood civic groups and all six of the city-organized Citizen Planning Advisory Committees, called CPACs. Ninety-nine out of 100 people sitting on CPACs citywide endorsed a three-minute hold on sign changes and a ban on scrolling.

"I really think it is a disservice to the folks who serve on those organizations to disregard their opinion," argued Councilman John Crescimbeni , who then tried unsuccessfully to gather votes for a one-minute standard.

An effort by Councilman Bill Bishop to forbid scrolling messages also failed. Critics say scrolling signs are designed to keep a driver's eyes on the signs, making them traffic hazards.

A leading sign-control advocate, attorney Bill Brinton , said after the meeting he planned to pursue new talks with community groups, businesses and faith groups about the potential for a grassroots initiative to tighten the rules.

The measure passed 14-5, with votes against it coming from Bishop, Crescimbeni, Kevin Hyde, Glorious Johnson and Jack Webb.

[Jdog]

Here's the link:   http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2011-04-12/story/street-signs-scroll-change-every-8-seconds-approved-jacksonville-city


Is the city also considering lifting the limit on billboards in town? 

[urbanlibertarian]

Here's the link:   http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2011-04-12/story/street-signs-scroll-change-every-8-seconds-approved-jacksonville-city


Is the city also considering lifting the limit on billboards in town? 

Hope so.  Advertising is very important for businesses to survive and grow.

[Bativac]

My favorite comment from the usual gang of idiots commenting on TU articles: "The city could start looking like Times Square at some point."

GOD FORBID!!!

[fsujax]

Now lets add some digital advertising in Downtown! scrolling signs, billboards, lights, etc!

[urbanlibertarian]

Yeah, baby!  Just like the Vegas strip.

[stjr]

When I am a tourist in other cities, the overabundance of signage is a real turn off for me, especially the overly "active" signs just approved (not to mention the horrid digital ones).  I want to see and experience an ambiance that is unique to the city or place that I visit and that conveys a special cultural, historical, and/or aesthetic flavor worth savoring.  Gaudy and excessive signage both masks and distracts from doing so unless the signage itself is the attraction as in Times Square.  (Note that the rest of NYC does not allow for such excesses.  If it did, every street would look like every other and all of NYC's distinctive nooks and crannies would fade away.)

The value of a sign is relative to its environment.  Create a sign arms race and no sign will stand out.  It will all just be a mindless blur and advertisers will mostly waste their money.  Look at the flood of TV commercials running in 5 to 7 minute blocks and tell me they are as effective as ads from 30 years ago when there were far fewer commercials competing for attention.  Times Square is loaded with signs but other than a handful of "signature signs" the rest amount to nothing more than a hodgepodge of color and words, none all that distinguishable from any other.  When Jax had thousands of plastic portable blinking sign boards lining its streets, it was nothing but blight.  No one could possibly have read (much less seen given one sign often obscured the next) all the material while driving 40 plus mph.

Eliminating "smokestacks" was once considered anti-business and anti-economic development, but show me any place in our country today that invites them in wholeheartedly.  Just as addressing smokestacks was necessary to deal with air pollution, sign regulation is necessary to deal with visual pollution.

By the way, I was leaving the Whole Foods shopping center in Mandarin the other day and they had a full color digital sign by the highway with an apparent "photograph" of customers at their store.  I remember it because I was thinking "Do I "recognize" any of these people?"  Imagine the eyes off the road with such signs on giant digital billboards cropping up all over Jax.

As to the City Council passing this over the objections of the CPAC's, just follow the money.  Who lobbied for the sign industry?  Who gave how much to which City Council reps?  Maybe Peyton will listen to the little people and veto this bill.  It is not necessary to promote businesses other than those that make and sell signs.

P.S. I put my money where my mouth is on this one.  I had the chance to buy one of those digital, flashing/scrolling signs and decided the old fashion sign board would do better conveying my messages.  No regrets and saved thousands on the cost of the sign and the power bill to keep it running.  And, when everyone else's is flashing blah red on black, mine will stand out for what it is NOT doing!  

[cityimrov]

Wait a minute.  Government is a force and a very strong force at that.  Are you guys saying that my right as an independent business is trumped by your desire to make the city "digital sign free"?  Are you guys saying that if I want to put a digital sign up your willing to use the force of government to come down, forcibly take down my sign, and then put me in jail if necessary no matter how viable or how useful or how good my business is to the community?  All this over a simple sign?  

Whatever happened to protecting the rights of the individual and use the force of government only when it is necessary for a functional society?

[Ocklawaha]

Down on Philips Highway there is a freaking huge new (digital?) billboard going up today. The damn thing is so big it blocks out the sun!

OCKLAWAHA

[Ocklawaha]

Now lets add some digital advertising in Downtown! scrolling signs, billboards, lights, etc!

I don't like billboards unless I'm in the middle of BFE on America's boring Interstate Highways. Seeing a billboard that says "BEST WESTERN EXIT 47 22 MILES" can be sweet... Sweetest billboard I EVER saw was one night about 1 am, eastbound in a blinding snow storm coming into Gallup, New Mexico. "COFFEE", "BED", "FOOD", oh and what the hell, Anasazi Silver Jewelery for the number one lady.

But in town I'd prefer the good old NEON streets, in fact Jacksonville once had quite a few buildings and signs in cool neon colors.

OCKLAWAHA

[Timkin]

And instead all we have are photographs of all those old neon signs and the beautiful buildings they graced.