Shipyards tower postponed indefinitely.

[avonjax]

After reading the article at Jax.com about the change in plans I have some comments and questions.
First I'm dissappointed because I felt the tower designed by Architectonica was finally breaking the bland and boring mold of most of Jax's architecture. I have a feeling we will see more of the same conservative blandness that is our signature.
Does anyone know if the fact that Ed Burr could not gain back control of his company? I've learned when denials are made, that is generally a part of the reason these kind of changes are made.
Of course I understand the market is weak right now but we are looking at 2 or 3 years before this tower would be complete.
Also the TU stated that 150 people had reservations for units. Granted not all those would buy but that seems like a fairly high amount of interest. Isn't that nearly half the units?
How will these changes effect the public pier and the original design?
Will they scrap the iconic sculpture they had planned?
Will these plans drastically effect the timetable of the public part of the plan?
According to my understanding of the article they will get a year extension to resubmit a plan, and this will include all? or part of the public space.
It that's the case we will be looking at another moonscape on the river for at least 2 or more years.
I'm really becoming more and more cynical about all the aborted projects downtown. It seems that in the last 4 or 5 years almost EVERY project has met a similar fate.
I understand the market dictates what is built, but if all these denser vertical projects keep going down in flames we will never have a vibrant community downtown.
I know there was some resistance to price for the project, but let's face it, nothing on the river is ever going to be cheap.
I just hope Novare does build an affordable building downtown somewhere, and it of course will not be on the river.
I'm hoping someone on this site can clarify the questions I have about this latest turn of events.
With the mostly horrilbe empty blocks of flat parking, the JEA site, the Riverwalk in front of the Hyatt and Courthouse area and the Shipyards, it's sad sometimes to ride or walk around downtown.

[vicupstate]

After reading the article at Jax.com about the change in plans I have some comments and questions.
First I'm dissappointed because I felt the tower designed by Architectonica was finally breaking the bland and boring mold of most of Jax's architecture. I have a feeling we will see more of the same conservative blandness that is our signature.
Does anyone know if the fact that Ed Burr could not gain back control of his company? I've learned when denials are made, that is generally a part of the reason these kind of changes are made.
Of course I understand the market is weak right now but we are looking at 2 or 3 years before this tower would be complete.
Also the TU stated that 150 people had reservations for units. Granted not all those would buy but that seems like a fairly high amount of interest. Isn't that nearly half the units?
How will these changes effect the public pier and the original design?
Will they scrap the iconic sculpture they had planned?
Will these plans drastically effect the timetable of the public part of the plan?
According to my understanding of the article they will get a year extension to resubmit a plan, and this will include all? or part of the public space.
It that's the case we will be looking at another moonscape on the river for at least 2 or more years.
I'm really becoming more and more cynical about all the aborted projects downtown. It seems that in the last 4 or 5 years almost EVERY project has met a similar fate.
I understand the market dictates what is built, but if all these denser vertical projects keep going down in flames we will never have a vibrant community downtown.
I know there was some resistance to price for the project, but let's face it, nothing on the river is ever going to be cheap.
I just hope Novare does build an affordable building downtown somewhere, and it of course will not be on the river.
I'm hoping someone on this site can clarify the questions I have about this latest turn of events.
With the mostly horrilbe empty blocks of flat parking, the JEA site, the Riverwalk in front of the Hyatt and Courthouse area and the Shipyards, it's sad sometimes to ride or walk around downtown.

Avonjax....  I feel your pain.

I have no insight regarding the public areas.  Has any work started on these?  If not, them  I would expect them to be postponed too.  If the improvements are well underway, then they likely would be completed, but that is semi-educated conjecture on my part.

From my conversation with the representative, (the post that started this thread) the tower is postponed, not cancelled.  Given the money spent on those plans, etc. I doubt they would scrape them. 150 reservations is good normally, but given the market, and the fact that these reservations weren't 'hard' the news isn't surprising. 

Another thing hurting DT is that the 'public money' spent on the BJP projects is either already spent or on hold (courthouse).  The boom times from 5 year ago were 'gassed up' by those projects and the incentivised projects such 11e, Carling, etc.  The city has stopped incentives and stopped spending on its' own construction projects.  Private money follows public money. 

In this environment the city needs to channel efforts into AFFORDABLE housing DT and getting the courthouse underway.       

[Ocklawaha]

For those who don't know the LEFT COAST, San Francisco, has the Trans-America Pyramid Tower. It is the highest building in this very hilly City. Not unlike our own South-bank towers, sometimes, depending on the angle it is hard to tell which is highest. The Pyramid was a very hip design when built, it wasn't until then that the local "hippies" thought it looked like a giant finger, pointed to the rest of the World. It's a nickname that has stuck and today "THE FINGER" says it all when asking for directions downtown. The appearance may be completely accidental, but it sure says something about attitude! This is why I wish Jacksonville had it's own FINGER pointed at the heart of the Mouse, Miami, Tampa, Atlanta, Charlotte and company... Just call it me a rabid Jacksonville booster and incurable romantic...






Ocklawaha

[jlight]

It's been several months since I've reported on any of this, but I'll take a shot at a few of your questions, Avon.

Of course I understand the market is weak right now but we are looking at 2 or 3 years before this tower would be complete.

That's true, but in order to get financing for construction, a company like LandMar needs to show proof that a certain number of units have sold or are likely to sell. Banks are very wary about lending money to condo projects right now, and while I don't know this for a fact, I imagine that pre-sale requirements for construction are even higher than they were a couple years ago.

Also the TU stated that 150 people had reservations for units. Granted not all those would buy but that seems like a fairly high amount of interest. Isn't that nearly half the units?

Nearly as important as the number of reservations is the momentum of reservations. A lot of those reservations might have come right after they opened for them. If they've petered out to one or two per month, I can imagine a developer or bank being spooked that they'll be stuck with a bunch of empty units.

How will these changes effect the public pier and the original design?

The private development at the Shipyards can happen at whatever pace the developer wants. But the public improvements are governed by an agreement with the city, so they're supposed to proceed as before. I read something a few days ago that said the Shipyards public improvements were ahead of schedule.

According to my understanding of the article they will get a year extension to resubmit a plan, and this will include all?

Whenever the Design Review Committee approves something, the approval lasts for a year. For most condo projects, and especially in this market, that's not enough time to get started. So, when that approval expires, the developers have to return to the DRC to get an extension. (I keep writing DRC, but I think it's called something else now) As I read the article, LandMar wants an extension for the design of Tower One, the luxury condo tower that's indefinitely delayed.

I'm really becoming more and more cynical about all the aborted projects downtown. It seems that in the last 4 or 5 years almost EVERY project has met a similar fate.

Right as most major condo projects downtown were being announced, the real estate market tanked. One of the faults of the media (i.e. me) during that time was doing a poor job of distinguishing likely projects from less likely ones. Some projects, like the 70-story tower that was to be built near the football stadium, were backed by investors with little developer experience. Most of the time, these investors run their projects through the design review process (and the media) to drum up support. Then, they're able to take the projects to somebody who actually builds stuff and say "See? My land is worth $X million. As shown by this approval, the city is amenable to building something big here, and public support (from all these newspaper articles I got) is strong. Want to buy it?" Some examples of the investor announcements include the St. James (70-story tower), the San Marco Riverwalk Village (5 towers next to the Main St. Bridge), and St. Johns Point (a few towers out by the stadium). After their DRC approvals, the San Marco Riverwalk Village and St. Johns Point actually got to teh point of having real developers behind them. The Village's developer pulled out before signing a deal, and St. Johns Point's developer owns the land but is sitting on it.

What I understand from the TU article is that LandMar is going to skip the tower for now, and move on to the low-rise aspects of the project that they highlighted when first announcing it. These included smaller towers with condos and lots of retail space on the ground floor. If I remember correctly, this segment of phase one was set closer to Berkman Plaza. Tower One was intended to be quite a ways away from Berkman.

Anyway, what do I know.

[thelakelander]

How's NYC, jlight?

[Steve]

Another thing hurting DT is that the 'public money' spent on the BJP projects is either already spent or on hold (courthouse).  The boom times from 5 year ago were 'gassed up' by those projects and the incentivised projects such 11e, Carling, etc.  The city has stopped incentives and stopped spending on its' own construction projects.  Private money follows public money. 

In this environment the city needs to channel efforts into AFFORDABLE housing DT and getting the courthouse underway.      

I completely agree - that's why when the real estate market softened, it would have been a perfect time to RFP's on the city-owned land.  They could have sold them for a little less than market rate (meaning that they would get more than the 0 that they got now for them), and been a catalyst in getting a project going.

[Steve]

How's NYC, jlight?

echo that - welcome back!

[raheem942]

Damn hate to see the shipyards go ......But maybe we could get a big project with more buisness with advertisement i think we should get a Move To Jax dvd on the desk of every ceo onthis sid eof the globe.[/size]