Pizza Italian vs. Prima Potti

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

Oh and Pizza Italian is good cheap eats, dinner for two is like <$20. The food is nothing special, but I'd sure take it over olive garden or the other chain Italian places most of this city flocks to any day. My only gripe is they don't serve wine of any kind. 

On a side to this, I've ordered to-go and eaten at Birdies (Starlight).  Since they don't sell food, they had no problem with me bringing my own - so there's drinks with dinner, outside on the patio.

[SecularHumanist]

I really want to love La Cena, because their menu is one of the best I have seen in Jacksonville.  Truly Italian, with a spectacular wine list to accompany it.   But my one and only visit there was a complete disaster, ranking as one of the worst meals of my entire life.  Enough time has passed, and I've read enough positive reviews, to possibly consider giving them another shot.  It would be wonderful if I were totally wrong, and just got them on a rare off-night four years ago.

Primi Piatti is good, although their current menu is hardly authentic Italian, it simulates what most Americans believe to be Italian food.   Veal Piccata, Milanese, etc, etc, etc.   The same stuff you can find at a hundred other "Italian" places in Jacksonville, sometimes done quite well, as at Enza's.      Their ORIGINAL menu, back when they first opened, was mouth-wateringly, shockingly good.    Roast pork loins in prune sauce, Chestnut stuffed quail, all kinds of genuine Italian dishes.  That didn't last long, alas.   

[ChriswUfGator]

Primi Piatti is good, although their current menu is hardly authentic Italian, it simulates what most Americans believe to be Italian food.   Veal Piccata, Milanese, etc, etc, etc.   The same stuff you can find at a hundred other "Italian" places in Jacksonville, sometimes done quite well, as at Enza's.      Their ORIGINAL menu, back when they first opened, was mouth-wateringly, shockingly good.    Roast pork loins in prune sauce, Chestnut stuffed quail, all kinds of genuine Italian dishes.  That didn't last long, alas.   

My last visit there less than a year ago, I did notice a couple mass-market dishes had crept in, but 90% of the menu was still innovative and authentic northern italian. It is unfair to label their entire menu as you have, unless something has drastically changed in the 7 months or so since I've been. Incidentally, I ate there with a friend who owned a restaurant, and he thought the food was excellent.

[SecularHumanist]

Oh, please don't misunderstand!  I never meant to imply the food was bad, in fact, I like it very much.  But it certainly cannot be mistaken for true Italian.  It can still be quite delicious and served in a pretty dining room with friendly waiters at reasonable prices.   I spoke with one of the waiters about the curious changes to the menu and he said the authentic stuff never really caught on.   Regardless, I'm just thrilled to have a place nearby that serves hand-breaded fried mozzarella rather than dumping it out of a SYSCO freezer bag.

But trust me, it ain't Italian, it is Italian-American.   My family spends at least one month a year in Italy, not as 'tourists' but as part time residents.  Plus we have second homes near Boston's North End, where places like Terramia and Bricco are our touchstones.

[ChriswUfGator]

Oh, please don't misunderstand!  I never meant to imply the food was bad, in fact, I like it very much.  But it certainly cannot be mistaken for true Italian.  It can still be quite delicious and served in a pretty dining room with friendly waiters at reasonable prices.   I spoke with one of the waiters about the curious changes to the menu and he said the authentic stuff never really caught on.   Regardless, I'm just thrilled to have a place nearby that serves hand-breaded fried mozzarella rather than dumping it out of a SYSCO freezer bag.

But trust me, it ain't Italian, it is Italian-American.   My family spends at least one month a year in Italy, not as 'tourists' but as part time residents.  Plus we have second homes near Boston's North End, where places like Terramia and Bricco are our touchstones.

When did you eat there and notice these changes?

I always valued them for their authentic Italian, which was still in place as of 7-8 months ago. If they've ditched that and started serving spaghetti and meatballs then you'll save me the waste of a return visit.

[ben says]

I really want to love La Cena, because their menu is one of the best I have seen in Jacksonville.  Truly Italian, with a spectacular wine list to accompany it.   But my one and only visit there was a complete disaster, ranking as one of the worst meals of my entire life.  Enough time has passed, and I've read enough positive reviews, to possibly consider giving them another shot.  It would be wonderful if I were totally wrong, and just got them on a rare off-night four years ago.

Primi Piatti is good, although their current menu is hardly authentic Italian, it simulates what most Americans believe to be Italian food.   Veal Piccata, Milanese, etc, etc, etc.   The same stuff you can find at a hundred other "Italian" places in Jacksonville, sometimes done quite well, as at Enza's.      Their ORIGINAL menu, back when they first opened, was mouth-wateringly, shockingly good.    Roast pork loins in prune sauce, Chestnut stuffed quail, all kinds of genuine Italian dishes.  That didn't last long, alas.   

Perfect review, just what I was looking forward. My in-laws are full time Sicilian residents, and whenever they come, they usually come to NYC where my sister-in-law lives. Now that they're coming down to Jax, I wanted to be sure to find a place that impresses...
La Cena has one of the best menu's I've seen in town. I do hope your experience four years ago was an anomoly, and not typical for the restaurant.

[SecularHumanist]

@Chris - They haven't quite descended down to the dark reaches of spaghetti and meatballs (we'll be in Rome next week and I just imagine the howls of laughter at the notion of serving that dish!) but the menu is far more stripped down and pedestrian than it originally was.    They still serve some mighty fine veal piccata, tender scallopini of pounded veal in a feather light lemon-butter-caper sauce alongside angel hair.   And their nightly specials can be awfully good too.  We go fairly often since it is a short walk from our condo.

@Ben - I hope I am totally wrong about La Cena.  There are a few encouraging signs to suggest that this may have been a rare off-night.  First of all, I went with a large party of seven people and there was no 'table captain'.  So ordering was sloppy and haphazard.   Experienced restaurant goers always appoint a table captain to run the show with any party larger than 4.   Secondly, several esteemed reviewers on Yelp and Urbanspoon have given positive reviews (along with the usual shills which you can ignore).

Please let me know if you go, and what your experience is like.  I would be so happy to have a place where I can get chestnut ravioli or roasted rabbit tortellini.   

[ben says]

Funny you mention the chestnuts and rabbit. I'm still looking for a place that serves genuine rabbit and/or wild boar. *Crossing fingers*

[SecularHumanist]

Sorry I can't help you there, unless you want to tag along with us next week since we're hiking from Rome to Florence and then to Venice.   It is currently Cerelia time in Italy so all the restaurants will be serving wild game and featuring dishes with the rare white truffle.

[ben says]

Sorry I can't help you there, unless you want to tag along with us next week since we're hiking from Rome to Florence and then to Venice.   It is currently Cerelia time in Italy so all the restaurants will be serving wild game and featuring dishes with the rare white truffle.

I'll be there for three months starting around March/April. Have a wedding to attend and a few other events. Jeez it's nice to have family outside of the states!

[Jerry Moran]

I really want to love La Cena, because their menu is one of the best I have seen in Jacksonville.  Truly Italian, with a spectacular wine list to accompany it.   But my one and only visit there was a complete disaster, ranking as one of the worst meals of my entire life.  Enough time has passed, and I've read enough positive reviews, to possibly consider giving them another shot.  It would be wonderful if I were totally wrong, and just got them on a rare off-night four years ago.

@Ben - I hope I am totally wrong about La Cena.  There are a few encouraging signs to suggest that this may have been a rare off-night.  First of all, I went with a large party of seven people and there was no 'table captain'.  So ordering was sloppy and haphazard.   Experienced restaurant goers always appoint a table captain to run the show with any party larger than 4.   Secondly, several esteemed reviewers on Yelp and Urbanspoon have given positive reviews (along with the usual shills which you can ignore).

Oh, great.  We now have SecularHumanist on the board.  I was wondering when he would show up.  This self appointed restaurant critic has been making the rounds on the Internet restaurant review sites for years using the name Frederick W or Frederick Wright.

Here are 3 so called reviews of my restaurant he has written on different review sites since 2006:

JUDY'S BOOK  03/12/2006

“La Cena Disappoints”
Frederick W., Sunday, March 12, 2006
This review is for: La Cena Ristorante

Okay, first my standard disclaimer. My partner and I dine frequently at expensive, European-style restaurants in Jacksonville, Boston, New York, and London. We are quite accustomed to the more relaxed pace of a European meal. However at our first dinner last night at La Cena, we waited for over an hour just to get our check! Pauses between courses were routinely 30 minutes or more. A simple meal out with friends consumed more than 4 hours! The waitstaff seemed to be comatose. The good? Well the food is generally excellent and the portion sizes are surprisingly large for a restaurant of this caliber. There are so many creative pasta dishes and traditional northern italian meat and fish dishes that any true fan of Italian cuisine will feel right at home. The main dining room is pretty and intimate, although the concrete walls and floor make for terrible accoustics and on our visit last night we had the misfortune to be seated next to a table of harpies who spent the entire four hour meal shrieking at each other at the top of their lungs -- even the waitstaff and the OWNER were appalled at their behavior. For an appetizer, we split the veal carpaccio which was good (could've used more lemon juice and olive oil) and got a chance to sample some delicious garlicky escargot too. My main course was a spaghettini carbonara which was cold and congealed by the time it reached our table (2 hours after ordering it). My partner ordered the tortellini bolognese -- a rich ragu of veal and beef which suffered from far too much salt. The wine list is excellent, with many mid-range options. The best deal may be the 'wine by the glass' which is actually a full 250 ml of your wine selection, almost enough for two full glasses!

METROGUIDE   09/14/2007

“Possibly the Worst Restaurant in Jacksonville”
La Cena Ristorante
211 North Laura Street
Jacksonville, FL
Reviewer:
Frederick Wright
Jacksonville, FL

What This Reader Said:
Inedible, grossly overpriced pseudo-Italian food served in an atmosphere consisting entirely of shrieking harpies by waitstaff ranging from indifferent to rude. As a constant European traveler, fluent in Italian, as well as being an accomplished chef, I am in a position to correctly judge a restaurant -- and this place is probably the worst establishment I've ever visited in my entire life.

URBAN SPOON  03/28/2009

Avoid...
by Frederick (253 reviews)
March 28, 2009 - Doesn't like it

I admit this review is based on a single visit and I have read some positive reviews of this place (perhaps from the staff?) We went with a party of 7 people for dinner one night and were seated promptly. Our waitress then disappeared for 45 minutes. When we finally got menus and were able to order, we didn't see her again for 90 minutes. Our appetizers came and they were terrific -- tasty garlicky escargot, salads, and really great wines. Then nothing for another 90 minutes, whereupon our magical disappearing waitress delivered possibly the worst entrees I've ever had at any restaurant in the world: congealed spaghetini carbonara and an oversalted bolognese. We were unable to eat more than a single bite. At this point we wanted nothing more than to get the bill and get out - but our waitress had gone missing again. It took over an hour to track her down. A simple casual dinner with friends turned into a 4 1/2 hour nightmare fiasco -- all for the price of $70 apiece.
I dislike giving locally owned restaurants a negative review, especially on the basis of a single visit. But this was so bad, I cannot see myself ever being able to return.

I know who SecularHumanist is, what he looks like, where he lives, and where he works.  I've followed his crappy, libelous, incognito "reviews". On many occasions, I've been tempted to hand my file on him to a member of the executive committee of the company he works for (as a computer programmer) when they dine at La Cena.  

The accusations he makes on line about my business are outrageous, and are patently untrue. A 4 1/2 hour dinner? 45 minute wait before getting the menu? Cold food? Nonsense!  Can anyone imagine this guy waiting 45 minutes for a menu without walking first?  Can't find a waitress?  The whole dining room is a 20' x 40' rectangle, with plaster walls, acoustic ceiling, and carpeting throughout.  The acoustics in the room are often better than I'd like them to be.   Well, he does admit four years later that there was no "table captain" at his table and the ordering was "sloppy and haphazard".  A guest not being able to place a coherent dinner order would tend to complicate and prolong the service.  I wouldn't be surprised if a such a party as that of SecularHumanist's ilk was not fighting among itself rather than tending to the business of ordering the dinner and eating it.

Congealed spaghetti carbonara?  It's hard to believe that such a gourmet would stoop to ordering pasta as the main course.  Everyone knows pasta is eaten as a second course in Italy where SecularHumanist travels frequently, and has family and a villa there, and speaks fluent Italian, and blah blah blah...  If he had concentrated on eating the stuff when it arrived, it would have not gotten hard.  After all, carbonara is basically half cooked ham and eggs with onions in it. The cooler it gets, the harder it gets.  I would not order it as a main course.  The dish was never meant to be served in a large portion.   And about the bolognese:  If you pile spoon after spoon of cheese on it, yeah, it gets salty.  I personally cook 95% of the pasta at La Cena, and will not send out anything under any circumstance that is less than very good, and it's generally excellent.

Why so critical of Primi Piatti? they had to change their menu in order to survive.  Quail stuffed with chestnuts is a great dish, but it's not going to go here, or anywhere else for that matter.  Most people want something fried, with sweet tomato sauce and melted cheese, or fish with some kind of lemon butter on it.  No offense intended, that's just the way it is throughout the country. We're not in New York, San Francisco, or Venice.  At a "family style" party for a fairly sophisticated group a few weeks ago, I offered Cinghiale over Coarse Polenta, Veal Milanese topped with Arugula and Multi-colored Grape Tomatoes, Homemade Sausages on Rappini, and House-Made Tortelloni filled with Scallop and Smoked Trout Mousse, as a few of the selections.  They ate the sausages, and asked for more Chicken Parmigiana.  Wilfried and I ate the Cinghiale for three days.  It had two bottles of nebbiolo in it.  Delicious.  We offered the excess ala carte, but there were no takers, and our clientele is the cream of the crop.

I've got some news for you SecularHumanist, or Fredrick W, or Fredrick Wright, or whatever pseudonym you're hiding behind these days.  You're not welcome at La Cena.  Don't come here.  Go somewhere else.  If I catch you in my dining room, that time, it will be the worst day of your life.  You're damned lucky I have not sued you for defamation, and I may yet, so, keep away.

[ChriswUfGator]

Well thank you, Jerry. He almost had me convinced not to go back to Prima Piatti again. He makes it sound like the place fell off a cliff in the few months since I was there last time. But after your post I will be taking his comments with a grain of salt. Obviously he just has some kind of thing for bashing restaurants.

[AmyLynne]

http://www.urbanspoon.com/u/reviews/209247

Jerry, check out his other food reviews. He gives great reviews to WokExpress, Ruby Tuesday, Village Inn, Beef O'Brady's, and Longhorn Steakhouse. Who would even bother writing reviews of those places, let alone good ones? He gives good reviews to Carrabba's, Quiznos, Hungry Howie's, even Red Lobster, but then bashes your food quality?

Seriously?

Not sure what to say. Kind of confusing. In any event it's certainly hard to take advice on Italian food from someone who bashes La Cena and Prima Piatti, but raves about Carrabba's, Quiznos, Red Lobster, and Hungry Howie's. Just bizarre.

Must really have some unique taste buds...

Seems like the dude reviews everywhere he eats...maybe he thinks he was a food critic in a past life??

[ChriswUfGator]

http://www.urbanspoon.com/u/reviews/209247

Jerry, check out his other food reviews. He gives great reviews to WokExpress, Ruby Tuesday, Village Inn, Beef O'Brady's, and Longhorn Steakhouse. Who would even bother writing reviews of those places, let alone good ones? He gives good reviews to Carrabba's, Quiznos, Hungry Howie's, even Red Lobster, but then bashes your food quality?

Seriously? What's next, TacoBell and Olive Garden vs. Ruth's Chris?

Not sure what to say. Kind of confusing. In any event it's certainly hard to take advice on Italian food from someone who bashes La Cena and Prima Piatti, but raves about Carrabba's, Quiznos, Red Lobster, and Hungry Howie's. Bizarre.

Must really have some unique taste buds...

[Jerry Moran]

I usually stay off the food threads concerning other restaurants because it's like one barber commenting on another.  In this case, the last thing Metro Jacksonville needs is some ultra sophisticated world traveler ready to pontificate on everything food. We already have Stephen, but he is a true  expert on many subjects.  Let Freddie return to the gutter where he will be most comfortable.

I'm sure Primi Piatti is a fine restaurant run by a caring chef / owner.  Have not visited yet.

I have to do a lot of Chicken Alfredo (sic) too.  They come in, usually under 40 types in groups of 8 or more, and look and look and look at the menu, and then ask "Can we get Grilled Chicken Alfredo?"  Sure, why not.  Good use for the chicken breast that Wilfried puts a little too much English on with the wacker (my 30 year old Solingen stainless off-set handle meat flatener).  Cut it into strips, seasoned flour, saute in clarified butter, touch of garlic (for mainstream appeal), remove the chix, pour off the excess fat, add heavy cream and reduce, dash of nutmeg, tagliatelle with a gob of butter thrown in.  No cheese, since the guest will put half a pound on it at the table anyway. Yeah, the chix wasn't grilled.  I'm not turning on the grill for 10 oz. of chicken that would only make the cream taste burnt.  I guess I could buy a box of pre-grilled chicken strips like the other places do. Cajun or Ginger Lime flavored.  That's not going to happen.

Remember, kids, don't forget to refrain from putting aged cheese on your seafood, but it's your dinner, and you can do what ever you want with it!