Creating Downtown Vibrancy by Exposing Secret Retail

[mtraininjax]

Acheiving this alone would create a completely different vibe downtown. Its an easy fix.

Easy Fix? Ha, Ha, you obviously do not understand Jacksonville politics. So we want more signs for businesses so that people will know what is inside the buildings, eh? Why not throw up flashing signs pointing to where the business is located? Why not bring in a 5-ring circus to perform as well. Change the sign laws downtown, what do you do for the ENTIRE county, which last time I checked, was THE CITY. Consolidation is a bummer!

So sure we could put signs, signs, signs everywhere and plaster the hell out of downtown, but then someone would complain that we turned downtown into the suburbs, minus people after 5 pm. Instead of belly-aching about signage, why not focus on adding NEW businesses to downtown, or adding new residents to downtown. Add more people, and they will find the businesses, with or without the signs.

Audrey is right, bring back DDA, they can do a LOT of good for downtown, if brought back!

[thelakelander]

Fat chance at that. Other than having a personal passion for DT, there is little financial incentive for someone to invest in such an unfriendly business and living environment.  It's going to take more than a DDA to turn things around.  If anything, government needs to get out of the way (that includes signage restrictions) and let things develop naturally.

[urbanlibertarian]

^+1!

[newzgrrl]

Allowing signs doesn't automatically mean DT is overrun with neon billboards. Is window lettering considered to be a sign? Seems like a moderate governance is a smart way to go: say, one sandwich board per entrance (on the sidewalk), window lettering, a canopy entrance with shop name. Frankly, a nice sandwich-style chalboard would improve the street dramatically over the white plastic style that is commonly used by DVI. For shops/restaurants inside the towers, have a directory outside (why is the one on the Forsyth side of Bell South empty?) and maybe open up those ground-level windows by removing the reflective material.

When I ran into Lake in the Wachovia tower when he was shooting for this article, I made the comment that the towers seem impenetrable and unwelcoming, but you discover they really aren't. No restaurateur has yet asked for my proof that I work inside the building in order to buy lunch.

[Bativac]

Allowing signs doesn't automatically mean DT is overrun with neon billboards. Is window lettering considered to be a sign? Seems like a moderate governance is a smart way to go: say, one sandwich board per entrance (on the sidewalk), window lettering, a canopy entrance with shop name. Frankly, a nice sandwich-style chalboard would improve the street dramatically over the white plastic style that is commonly used by DVI. For shops/restaurants inside the towers, have a directory outside (why is the one on the Forsyth side of Bell South empty?) and maybe open up those ground-level windows by removing the reflective material.

When I ran into Lake in the Wachovia tower when he was shooting for this article, I made the comment that the towers seem impenetrable and unwelcoming, but you discover they really aren't. No restaurateur has yet asked for my proof that I work inside the building in order to buy lunch.

I say the city should put a 100% stop to enforcing the sign ordinance. In fact, I think it should be repealed. I am a 31 year old man, and my peers and I (people of similar age with money to spend, aching for a place to spend it) are going to be drawn in by an area that presents the image of a vibrant, walkable urban core. Jacksonville can't manufacture blocks of old buildings, but they could allow businesses (maybe even - GASP - encourage them) to advertise by installing eye-catching signage on the buildings that do exist.

Imagine it - Jacksonville, a city full of young designers and artists, becoming known for a downtown full of weird, colorful signage. Visually interesting signage creates intrigue and results in people entering businesses, where they are likely to spend money.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, this costs the taxpayer NOTHING. Businesses are given freedom to advertise without having to meet the specifications of the sign ordinance. I think everyone can agree that for the time being, there are absolutely no concerns with having Downtown Jacksonville "polluted" by overbearing signage. If we get to the point where large, attractive, interesting, captivating signs are becoming a problem, the sign ordinance can be readdressed. But for the time being, I cannot think of a good reason to continue to support a sign ordinance, beyond the fact that maybe some senior citizens don't like the idea of signs.

I respect and admire senior citizens, but for those with closed minds, I'm sorry -- you're on the way out. That way of thinking results in atrophy and death. Repeal the sign ordinance. Encourage businesses to advertise. Maybe DVI can hold a contest. Interesting signage will lead to an environment that appears more vibrant, which will lead people of all ages to spend time and money, which will -- eventually -- revitalize downtown Jax.

[Jason]

^ Part of me agrees with you, however, another says that the ordinance just needs to be much less restrictive to allow creativity to thrive.  I'm sure there are aspects of the ordinance that are very beneficial to the downtown feel that should remain.  Just streamline the approval process and edit the ordinance.

[fieldafm]

another says that the ordinance just needs to be much less restrictive to allow creativity to thrive.

I wholeheartedly agree.

[Bativac]

^ Part of me agrees with you, however, another says that the ordinance just needs to be much less restrictive to allow creativity to thrive.  I'm sure there are aspects of the ordinance that are very beneficial to the downtown feel that should remain.  Just streamline the approval process and edit the ordinance.

I say just repeal the whole thing. Or grant some kind of exemption for the downtown area. Remove that potential hurdle. I am not sure what portions of the ordinance are beneficial to downtown. The only thing I can think of is any parts of the ordinance that might pertain to maintenance of signs (i.e. no burned out neon, peeling paint or missing letters). Even that doesn't need to be addressed until there are actually signs downtown to worry about.

More importantly I would hate to see the city council enter another endless debate (which they would certainly do) about which parts of the ordinance to keep, and passing a revised ordinance, etc.

Maybe I don't know what I'm talking about. I am after all just some guy on the internet.

[thelakelander]

This situation highlights what's wrong with DT Jax at street level and how it can impact small business growth and DT vibrancy.


The AT&T Tower has a full blown food court on the second floor that can't be seen from the street, despite you being able to see the street from the inside.

About 30 minutes ago, I decided to head downstairs and walk through the mall at AT&T Tower.  I'm now sitting at my desk with a plate of fried chicken, collard greens, mash potatoes and gravy, cornbread, peach cobbler and sweet tea.  I had no idea there was a full blown food court with space for about 8 or 9 vendors on the second floor.  There's no signage outside and you can't see into the windows from the street.  Evidently, retail tenants are totally dependent on whatever offices are upstairs.  Needless to say, the only three eateries open serves sushi, soul food and hamburgers, etc.  Unfortunately, since the tower is nearly empty, at least two will be closing at the end of the month.  Perhaps if we could find some way to better expose what's already down here from the street, places like this would not have to rely totally on offices on the floors above them. 

There are a ton of poor urban design situations like this in the Northbank that make the area seem more sleepy than it really is.  Instead of focusing on budget busting items like convention centers, the Shipyards and movie theaters, maybe just maybe, it will be more cost effective to work with property owners to better integrate their buildings and hidden retail, with the sidewalks and streets surrounding them?

[thelakelander]

This is how a similar street level visibility situation is handled in Toronto.  Simple signage and outdoor seating.

[JeffreyS]

The two shops are closing now with the Everbank Employees on the way?  Someone should mention it to them.

[JeffreyS]

3 or 4 of those shoppes and Food court entrance signs downtown would do a lot of good.  Wells Fargo Building, old Wachovia/ Omni, BOA and AT&T all do have things to offer people. I think it add some synergy to the landing.

[thelakelander]

The two shops are closing now with the Everbank Employees on the way?  Someone should mention it to them.

As of now, Everbank hasn't committed and if they do, such a move is still a few months away.  Having to go months without customers on a "maybe" that Everbank will come may not be a realistic financial solution for a small business.

[duvaldude08]

The two shops are closing now with the Everbank Employees on the way?  Someone should mention it to them.

What two shops? Just curious

[thelakelander]

The place is called Flourney's Grill.  They occupy a few spaces in the AT&T Tower Mall's mostly empty food court.

Looking for lunch with a twist of soul food? Flournoy's has everything from Jamaica beef patties to fish sandwich to veggie burgers. If breakfast is your desire then fill-up on a hearty one from egg croissanwich to omelet with grits. Stop by today for home cooked food, saladbar with fresh fruit and an affordable cooked to order menu.

http://www.downtownjacksonville.org/locations/l-182-flournoys-grill.aspx

To get to the food court, you would have to know that the general public is allowed inside the building, that retail stores are in there and that you have to go up one level, past the security guard desk, behind the elevator shafts, a seating area and another wall to find the restaurant.