Trouble in Downtown?

[dganson]

And now on to Jake Goldbold. Jake is a hick and he was corrupt. His buddies Tommy Greene and Don McClure were convicted and they were all corrupt. But that is not why I dislike him so much. It is about two things. The convention center is primary. He knew it was too small to build but did it anyway making it impossible to build an appropriate one for 25 years. A convention center that only could handle less than 15% of national conventions was stupid. Al he cared about was his legacy...not doing the right thing

[dganson]

And secondly, another legacy was to rebuild Hemming Plaza and all of the streets downtown. And he did...for three years. During that time Iveys, May Cohens and Pennys left downtown. And with this loss of mass the Landing never got going as it could of. And he was the first mayor to put off providing the promised parking to The Landing that was built under his watch. He just did not get the big picture and we have never recovered from his administrations damage. And now our current mayor has made it 10 times worse.

[dganson]

Stephen...people will pay for percieved value. Businesses fail due to poorly percieved value. If the value is there people will pay whatever you ask. I mean someone gets $21 from you for a haircut. I could pay John Combs $11 and $10 parking and still be even with you.

[thelakelander]

Again a lie. There is no where downtown that 2 or 3 hours costs $10.00. You continue to push this same line but it is a lie. Just because you say it doens not make it true.

Outside of special events and first hour parking validation (most don't know about), you'll pay around $9 for 3 hours if you park at the library parking garage.  I'm not too sure about the other garages.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

Stephen...people will pay for percieved value. Businesses fail due to poorly percieved value. If the value is there people will pay whatever you ask. I mean someone gets $21 from you for a haircut. I could pay John Combs $11 and $10 parking and still be even with you.

So are you under the impression that Addeco and Tree of Life, failed?

I'd like to add to Stephan's comment - Of these 'failed' businesses, how many re-opened in another part of town with success?  Not that anyone would know, but it adds another dimension to the fact that maybe they just 'relocated.'

[thelakelander]

Here is another article related to Adecco and parking costs DT vs the burbs.  Before Adecco decided to leave downtown there was an article that stated they were paying +$500k/year on parking costs.  By moving to the burbs, that's a significant instant savings to relocate to an area that has more energy and life.  Just as soon as I find it in the archives, I'll post it to this thread.

Jacksonville finds it too costly to pay business’s employee parking as incentive

The proposal was considered to keep Adecco downtown.

By David Bauerlein
City officials have ruled out subsidizing employee parking in order to keep a major employer in the downtown.

Adecco Group,  which recently purchased MPS Group, has said it is leaning toward moving 375 employees out of downtown.

Adecco Group hasn’t requested financial incentives from the city, but the possibility of losing its corporate presence in the heart of downtown triggered talks at the Jacksonville Economic Development Commission about what the city might do. The 35-story Modis Building is named after a subsidiary of MPS.

JEDC Executive Director Ron Barton on Wednesday told commissioners the cost of paying for employee parking can equate to an additional $2 to $3 per square foot in leasing costs compared with being in the suburbs. He said it’s not financially feasible for the city to cover that cost.

“I will tell you this â€" the city can’t write a check large enough,” Barton said at the JEDC’s monthly meeting.

He said the cost of parking is a financial consideration for other downtown employers. The city needs to work on better transit connections to less-expensive parking on the edge of downtown, he said.

According to a 2009 survey by Colliers International,  Jacksonville’s parking rates ranked as the 18th lowest among 64 cities analyzed in North America.

http://www.allvoices.com/s/event-5382729/aHR0cDovL2ZlZWRzLmphY2tzb252aWxsZS5jb20vfnIvSmFja3NvbnZpbGxlY29tQnVzaW5lc3MvfjMvMy1NZkhubGxrRGcvamFja3NvbnZpbGxlX2ZpbmRzX2l0X3Rvb19jb3N0bHlfdG9fcGF5X2J1c2luZXNzJTI1RTIlMjU4MCUyNTk5c19lbXBsb3llZV9wYXJraW5nX2FzX2k=

[dganson]

No they just relocated, for the reasons given above. Are you that dense. I am obviously speaking of small retail and food downtown.

[dganson]

Chew is doing so well and have been unable to negotiate more space that is affordable that they are leaving due to landlord issues. As are the other two. You want to blame parking and government for your problems but sometimes a landlord has other objectives that you are not aware of or just are willing and able to wait it out.

[dganson]

more misdirection Stephen...come on you have been much better than this in the past. I am starting to lose interest in yanking your chain. You are beginning to bore me.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

Stephen...people will pay for percieved value. Businesses fail due to poorly percieved value. If the value is there people will pay whatever you ask. I mean someone gets $21 from you for a haircut. I could pay John Combs $11 and $10 parking and still be even with you.

This is the problem that Jax will be facing for years more, with no 'percieved' answer in sight.  There is no 'percieved value' for being downtown anymore, that is a nice 1950's sentiment that is no longer in fashion.  Today's culture demands that we have greenspaces, campuses and all those other eco-friendly buzz words that lure people to the 'burbs.  The funny thing is, for all of the community and ergo-living BS that they are selling, ask one person who works on the southside that walks to lunch.  How many southsiders can brown bag it and enjoy lunch looking over the St. John's.  

I keep arguing against myself, but both my points are clear to me - Companies are being lured away with 'percieved values', and downtown can't build any value in itself to keep them.

[thelakelander]

I don't know what all other cities do, but I do know that every city grapples with competing suburbs that offer free parking and I do know that other cities have just as much white flight as Jacksonville, but they still manage to get the majority of their companies to be downtown.

What to do is quite simple to me.  You have to bit the bullet, stop blowing hot air and actually invest in downtown with public/private projects that make urban living worth living.  You know, the stuff like mass transit, active parks, better schools, etc.  You may even have to give up property for free and tax breaks to land a major company, housing development or educational facility to anchor your DT.  You also have to cluster your investment to immediately create pedestrian synergy around it and the surrounding area.  Invest in things that breed life and activity and then some companies may not mind paying more on parking to be in the center of it all.  On the other hand, if we keep blowing hot air and trying to sell people on a polished turd, the race out of DT will continue.

[dganson]

agreed

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

I don't know what all other cities do, but I do know that every city grapples with competing suburbs that offer free parking and I do know that other cities have just as much white flight as Jacksonville, but they still manage to get the majority of their companies to be downtown.

What to do is quite simple to me.  You have to bit the bullet, stop blowing hot air and actually invest in downtown with public/private projects that make urban living worth living.  You know, the stuff like mass transit, active parks, better schools, etc.  You may even have to give up property for free and tax breaks to land a major company, housing development or educational facility to anchor your DT.  You also have to cluster your investment to immediately create pedestrian synergy around it and the surrounding area.  Invest in things that breed life and activity and then some companies may not mind paying more on parking to be in the center of it all.  On the other hand, if we keep blowing hot air and trying to sell people on a polished turd, the race out of DT will continue.

I'm entirely too lazy to do the research, but isn't this sort of what happened in Atlanta?  People flocked out of the downtown 'core' only to build up Buckhead, and now, 20 years later they are still trying to get people/businesses back into the city.

[thelakelander]

Stephen...people will pay for percieved value. Businesses fail due to poorly percieved value. If the value is there people will pay whatever you ask. I mean someone gets $21 from you for a haircut. I could pay John Combs $11 and $10 parking and still be even with you.

This is the problem that Jax will be facing for years more, with no 'percieved' answer in sight.  There is no 'percieved value' for being downtown anymore, that is a nice 1950's sentiment that is no longer in fashion.  Today's culture demands that we have greenspaces, campuses and all those other eco-friendly buzz words that lure people to the 'burbs.

These are things that also lure people to vibrant urban cores all across America.  Leave Jax and visit a peer like Charlotte, Austin, Indianapolis, Kansas City, Raleigh or Norfolk and you'll see people wanting to be in their downtowns.  That's because those places actually invest in their downtowns with things that improve the quality-of-life element within a compact environment.  All we do here is study, repeat failed policies and wonder out loud why things still don't work after +40 continuous years of redevelopment strategies.  If we open up our eyes and look around us, we'll discover that we're making downtown redevelopment more difficult and time consuming than it needs to be.

[dganson]

A solution. Build a convention center next to the Hyatt. Reclaim 1/2 of the Shipyard property and make it public access land on the river forever. Sell Sleiman the land under the Landing so he can develop it. He is the only player with the interest and financial clout to make something happen. Do these two things immediately, sit back and watch the vibrancy return to downtown in less than 10 years.