Trouble in Downtown?

[ESHC]

To my knowledge there is no definitive study on what percentage of panhandlers have a home, either locally or nationally. What I do know is a large percentage of persons who stay at any of the emergency shelters in Jacksonville are working or actively looking for work. But remember to legally work in the U.S. you have to prove you can legally work - you need an I.D. Non profits througout FL who assist with replacement I.D. have seen the cost double from 2008 to 2010. This is for both the records to get the I.D. and the actual photo I.D.

[Jerry Moran]

To reply to SarahD and Taylor Strasser, I agree that the criminal vagrants that terrorize downtown give the legitimately homeless a bad name. So, if in fact you do maintain a data base of bonafide clients, that are enrolled in your rehabilitation program, wouldn't it be easy to deny service to those who are not, like the criminal vagrants that give us all a bad time? 

This idea goes back to the Jacksonville Universal Assistance Card suggest long ago in MetroJax posts.  The concept is a simple one:  Reward those who endeavor to improve their condition, and deny services to those who do not.  The criminal vagrants that give the homeless a bad name will be weeded out of the system, and move on to some other venue.  Downtown will be better off, the people who live and work here will be happy, business will be satisfied, and your social service organization will have more resources available to devote to legitimate clients.

[SaraD]

in reply to Jerry Moran:
Most of the shelters will ban a client if they are found to be participating in illegal behavior while receiving services. The ban can last from anywhere from 6 months to an indefinite period of time depending on the severity of the crime.

Also, most shelters hold their clients accountable for their actions and the clients are enrolled in programs that measure outcomes. If a client is not making progress and working hard towards improving their lives and reintegrating back into the community then they are in most cases suspended from receiving services.

Homeless services agencies work hard to be a hand up not a hand out. There is a big focus on sustainability and rehabilitation. That being said not everyone can be helped but I think it is important that we support our social services agencies as they play a key role in the improvement of our urban core.

[Jerry Moran]

Most of the shelters will ban a client if they are found to be participating in illegal behavior while receiving services. The ban can last from anywhere from 6 months to an indefinite period of time depending on the severity of the crime.

Also, most shelters hold their clients accountable for their actions and the clients are enrolled in programs that measure outcomes. If a client is not making progress and working hard towards improving their lives and reintegrating back into the community then they are in most cases suspended from receiving services.

OK, that's great.  Stop the handouts to those that are not behaving themselves.  Communicate and cooperate with the other shelters in town and work as a team.  If someone is blackballed by one shelter, they're blackballed by all.  That's what the JUAC Card was supposed to do: a single services ID card required by all shelters to be used with a common database.  The shelters need to stop competing against each other. As it stands, the shelters are being played for fools by the vagrants that swing between one shelter and another for duplicate and extra services.  That's how the problem people make a living, year after year in Jacksonville.

[Jerry Moran]

Almost forgot:

"The best way to help the poor is to make them uncomfortable in their poverty"
Thomas Jefferson

[Singejoufflue]

Almost forgot:

"The best way to help the poor is to make them uncomfortable in their poverty"
Thomas Jefferson

If only 25% of the homeless ever have the opportunity of being in a shelter in Jax, doesn't that make it uncomfortable from the jump?  What, maybe itching powder in their bedding? Random attacks by wild packs of dogs?  What more should we do to make people who have no homes uncomfortable?

Of our 4K homeless, 80% are from Duval County.  We aren't talking about imports.  We need to be working harder to get our neighbors back in homes and on the road to recovery.  The already taxed shelters don't need to be spending 90% of their time dealing with 10% of the problem. 

[JC]

Almost forgot:

"The best way to help the poor is to make them uncomfortable in their poverty"
Thomas Jefferson

Maybe you could buy them all refrigerators to live in, that would be uncomfortable!

[uptowngirl]

I dont get why people feel if you are hardworking and lucky enough to have a job, own a business or your own home you should be happy and feel blessed to be surrounded by homeless people, drug addicts, trash, fecal matter, urine, sexual displays, body odor, and camp debris. I have a feeling tough, if this was occurring at the SJTC, or in one of many gated communities it would not be going over too well. Hmmm speaking of gated communities, should they not be abolished? I mean isn't that blocking the poor souls from getting a nice free bath in the pools behind those gates? Should not the residents want to open their clubhouse facilities to for the grand cause?

[rainfrog]

So uptowngirl, you think people being advocates for the homeless are saying you should feel blessed to be around them? Don't you think that's a bit of a leap into pure dishonesty?

[Bridges]

Almost forgot:

"The best way to help the poor is to make them uncomfortable in their poverty"
Thomas Jefferson

Thomas Jefferson never said that.  It's a quote Glenn Beck made up, and he even attributed it to Ben Franklin...but he was wrong there too. 

[sean]

No one cared about the homeless problem downtown, until we bused them out to sjtc!

[JC]

JC.  Maybe you should stop being a dick to the guy who stepped up to help Miss Maggie a refrigerator when she needed one.

You didnt dig too deep into your own pocket to help buy that refrigerator, and yet you have the nerve to rag Jerry from the sidelines.  You may talk the talk, but to your own shame, Jerry walked the walk.  

I guess its less expensive to call Jerry names than to help out a woman who needed help.

In fact, I think its sickening that so many of you guys (TUFSU, can you hear me) think that its righteous to insult Jerry when he is the one out there every day having to pick up the slack where people of 'good conscience' seem to never have the wherewithal to help out.

It is morally wrong to force a merchant to also become the social worker for every social ill that makes its way downtown.  It is craven in the extreme to criticise him because he has the bad taste to bring the problem that exists downtown to your attention.  Its much easier to refuse to give change, complain about the evil 'conservatives' and then kick the man in the ribs whose actual livelihood is at stake every day because of your own apathy and inaction.

If you don't like Jerry's piss poor attitude about the criminals he has to deal with every day, then why not get off your self satisfied asses and come down and help deal with the people.

You see the need, but you feel better just throwing your rocks and running.

Meanwhile, when an actual need came up, Jerry answered the call and bought a poor woman with no means, a refrigerator that allows her to keep food in her own home.

You didnt.

And shame on you for it.

Its one thing to disagree with someone's politics, god knows Jerry and I agree on very little politically, but this hypocritical bullyragging is very uncalled for.  I know Jerry Moran to be an honorable and decent fellow, and I don't think many of the people who take such liberties criticizing him are man enough to master the obstacles that he has to deal with every day just to keep his very decent restaurant open downtown.

Stephen you have no idea what I do or don't do for people because there aren't any threads about my activities.  Unfortunately I cannot afford to by myself a fridge let alone someone else but I can promise you that if you ever need some basic home or auto repair done and you cant afford the labor I will be happy to help out.

Sorry but I have a hard time isolating an act of kindness from a pile of nastiness and I don't consider it thread worthy or cause for celebration. 

Almost forgot:

"The best way to help the poor is to make them uncomfortable in their poverty"
Thomas Jefferson

This is a horribly dishonest and destructively stupid statement and it shows a complete lack of prospective on matters of poverty, no refrigerator can make up for this kind of thinking. 

But I am done Stephen, you are right, I am being a dick and my dickness is somewhat counterproductive and a distraction, I have said enough. 

Although my activities downtown are pedestrian I at least show up!  I drive my wife and kids to the library once a week and walk down the street like average normal people, check out some books, and get some lunch or a snack when we have a little extra money.  I go to Chamblin when there is a book I would rather own than borrow and sometimes grab a cup of coffee.  My wife loves three layers and when she needs time to herself she will go and hang out with the bunny.  Stephen my family and I are active and involved just because we show up.  Yes, I get asked for money and when its rainy I walk my family past the gauntlet of homeless hanging out in front of the library but I still show up.  Why do I show up?  I don't know, maybe its because I want to be part of a community, and whenever I walk around downtown I think wow, this place is gorgeous, and then there is some reminder of where I am, maybe its a little too hot that day, maybe its the fact that I am outnumbered by desperate people, possibly its the lack of families, maybe its some hint at the white conservative christian thinking that dominates downtown, whatever it is I am reminded how fast I need to get the fuck out of here because this place is dying...

[dganson]

Stephen I think your misrepresentations are part of the problem. You continually say things that are pure fabrications. For example:
Those 90% vacancy rates must be invigorating What 90% vacancy rates? Where?
This would apparently include not only the small businesses whose doors were shut over the past 15 years since your presidency nailed the coffin lid shut on the last remaining downtown merchants association. This association failed when the worst mayor in history ( Jake Godbold ) destroied downtown and the department stores left and the association main funding source dissappeared. And Jimbo Stockton was president when the association folded, not me. perhaps you can explain why my predictions about the downtown have been so accurate and why yours have been totally wrong? I made no predictions and my only point is that parking is not the culprit. Incidentally, the parking garages on Bay Street charge 10 dollars. Only for 4 hours parking...plenty of time to get a haircut for $21.00. Last time I checked, Doug, you were doing business with Mark Rimmer. . Mark was a college roomate of mine and we are good friends, but I have never had any business relationship with Mark. NEVER!!!! why not start by explaining what kind of business connections you have maintained with these parking czars. Again I have bno business relationship with anyone. I run my own business but am not involved in any other business at all. NONE!!!! Didnt they promise you a piece of the 'tod' action at the time? Who are they and the answer is NO. I have no relationship with any business but my own. Now you are awfully cozy with the appropriately named Mr Rimmer and his cohorts, and yet awfully quick to call people 'liars'. What cohorts...what does this mean. Mark is a good friend and that is all.
Stephen once again you have misrepresented me and the problems downtown. And you always blame business failures on others and not the business itself. You have failed in Boomtown in 5 Points, The Jacksonville Landing, Hemming Plaza and Springfield. It is you and not the environment. La Cena is a success, as is Chamblains, Hemming plaza Jewelry, Jacobs, and many more....but you failed in the same locatiohn...it's you not the environment. City leadership has failed us massively starting with Jake (the Corrupt) Goldbold and now Johnny the Disaster. But it is not all about parking as you cliam, the problems are much broader. And you lying about the facts above does not help.

[thelakelander]

dganson, how did Jake Godbold destroy downtown?  Was it done on purpose?

[JeffreyS]

2 hour parking limit signs. they work in san marco they work in riverside both areas more populated and more utilized then downtown . remember the perception of parking being a hassle is a big part of the public's problem with going down town.