Live Blog: DIA community Forum

[TheCat]

Meeting done. Another meeting tomorrow.

[tufsu1]

I'll be at the the meeting tomorrow

[FSBA]

A taxpayer funded aquarium would be such a monumental money loser it would make the skyway look like peanuts in comparison. As would most of the rest of the suggestions.

Know what would help downtown tremendously and cost next to nothing? Changing zoning laws and getting the city the hell out of the downtown revitalization game.

Let's make it as easy to open a bar/restaurant downtown as it would be to open one in Tinseltown. More importantly let's make it so that you can order drinks until 4am or later most nights.

The biggest difference between the Urban Construction and Southside Construction updates MJ runs each month is that there is tangible progress in most of the Southside updates vs alot of "coming soon" or updates from months ago on urban projects.

Spending millions on an aquarium or a streer car line won't do shit if there isn't private sector investment in downtown.

[thelakelander]

A streetcar line actually helps more than just downtown.  Transportation infrastructure builds cities by encouraging private sector investment due to increased traffic exposure.  Build highways and you get drive through restaurants, strip malls, tract home subdivisions and SJTCs at the interchanges.  Invest in transit that actually efficiently takes people where they want to go and you end up with walkable infill TOD.

This isn't rocket science. The proof exists in Jax (Five Points, King Street, San Marco Square, Main Street, etc. are all examples of early 20th century TOD) and most across the country. Portland, Tampa, Little Rock, Charlotte, Norfolk, Denver, Salt Lake City, Houston, Memphis, etc. are all examples of this. There's a reason more cities like Kansas City, Fort Lauderdale, Cincinnati, Tucson, Milwaukee, Detroit, etc. are installing them and it has a lot more to do with economic development than it does copying some other place.  In fact, as predicted on this site a few years back, it's currently happening with Sunrail in Orlando and now developers are taking note at AAF:

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,19996.msg352747/topicseen.html#new

For Jax it boils down to this.  No matter what the specific land uses are, connectivity and having those complementing land uses within a compact walkable setting is what creates vibrant downtowns.  What I saw tonight was a bunch of targeted isolated sites spread out over a two mile stretch of land area on both sides of the river.  In other words, a lot of disconnected potential nodes.  Without something tying them together and encouraging infill in between, downtown Jax is pretty much screwed as a vibrant walkable district before 2025.......regardless of how the private sector views it.

[Debbie Thompson]

I really hoped to go tonight, but ended up working until 6:30.  Hope to make it tomorrow.  How about no parking meters and free two hour parking in the CBD?  Were there other ideas floating besides the Aquarium and Ferris Wheel?  Surely there were.

Connect Riverside, San Marco and Downtown?  How about connecting Springfield and Downtown?  Riverside residential is a couple of miles from downtown, and San Marco is a couple of miles across the river.  Springfield/Eastside/Durkeeville are couple of blocks.  We ARE the downtown walkable neighborhoods.  When they say not enough people live downtown, they ignore the thousands of us who live right across State Street, isolated by the East/West Expressway known as State and Union.  Make them two ways to eliminate the speeding and sense of isolation from the Urban Core neighborhoods, like they already did with Post and College in Riverside.  We already have an East/West Expressway in MLK.  We don't need two within a mile of each other.

[thelakelander]

^You're exactly right. Stephen pointed this out during his comment. All of these walkable neighborhoods should be directly tied with downtown.  There's over 75,000 people living within a three mile radius of the Northbank.  That's a great critical mass of population to start off with while encouraging long term infill.

[Ocklawaha]

Spending millions on an aquarium or a streer car line won't do shit if there isn't private sector investment in downtown.

The aquarium is a 'thing' the streetcar is a 'TOOL.' Without exception, every streetcar project that has opened in the last few years has seen investment along the route skyrocket. Streetcars bring development which does not normally blossom along a road with a bus route due to the very flexibility with which buses are sold.

"BRT is a better fit for Jacksonville then rail..." (JTA within the last 60 days) And so the lies and distortions continue while the city itself risks remaining an underachieving, also-ran.

[Ocklawaha]

Spending millions on an aquarium or a streer car line won't do shit if there isn't private sector investment in downtown.

The aquarium is a 'thing' the streetcar is a 'TOOL.' Without exception, every streetcar project that has opened in the last few years has seen investment along the route skyrocket. Streetcars bring development which does not normally blossom along a road with a bus route due to the very flexibility with which buses are sold.

"BRT is a better fit for Jacksonville then rail..." (JTA within the last 60 days) And so the lies and distortions continue while the city itself risks remaining an underachieving, also-ran.

[Noone]

The 11/4/13 first CRA/DIA in the USA meeting at the Hyatt started for me going up the escalator with a Hyatt guy saying follow me we need more chairs and then seeing Tony Robbins outside the room. We have infill Downtown. it's positive.

OK Southbank your up tonight. I'm going to say bigger crowd. Easier parking. Didn't see my elected legislative representative. Not surprised. I'm guessing it's still that open contest for a lunch at Chopstick Charley's and the Uber option for anyone that can identify the new Waterway signage that was never before Waterways. And it's not the new No Fishing signs that was never before Waterways. Don Redman Dist. 4 is the chair of Waterways. If Scott Wilson is there ask him too. They are both aware and in all fairness ask any Jacksonville Waterways Commission member. Backroom deals.

2009-442 The Artificial Reef Trust Fund. Anybody want to donate a buck? I'll deliver it personally on your behalf in 8 days at the next Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting. 6 artificial reefs south of the Fuller Warren bridge.
No Shoes
No Shirt
No Money
No Problems -Visit Jacksonville

Everyone was given two minutes to speak except the first speaker. Good for him because every thing that he rattled off is part of the permanent record. The consultants did an excellent job in the flow and everyone was given an opportunity to participate.

The USS Adams was mentioned more than once and the show of hands for support was exciting to see. Other speakers commented on using the river. It was nice that a map of the CRA zone was being displayed so that everyone can actually see the disconnect that not only exists from the water but the land as well. People talked about the low hanging fruit. How about the RAM dock! We just need a key! 3 years later. People talked about signage. Tony Robbins even illustrated a spot on the Southbank. Tony, I didn't know about that spot. Seriously. I'll check it out.

I turned in a list for the permanent record of other potential spots that that can provide an organic cluster of spontaneous connectivity in a number of corridors that will add a vibrant,  active, recreational, option that should add a global recognition that you want to VISIT JACKSONVILLE especially on our St. Johns River our American Heritage River a FEDERAL Initiative in our new highly restricted DIA zone.

As one speaker said "We need Action."

[icarus]

So, in other words, nothing has changed....

I have to admit so far what I am hearing from the meeting is just same reiteration of wish lists and failed projects discussed here on metrojax.

I'd appreciate some leadership.  Even, if, it is just to say .. concentrate on connecting Riverside to Downtown via Brooklyn because that area is working.

[icarus]

I haven't seen one recommendation to inventory COJ owned property downtown.  As the largest landowner downtown, COJ is in a perfect position to joint-venture and/or promote development. 

Everbank finally moved downtown but what about Deutsche Bank, Chase?  What kind of business mix, i.e. office, retail, residential do we want Downtown? What comes first?

Oh, and I want a pony because lets face it, someone always wants a pony.

[thelakelander]

I think that accurately describes it icarus.

What is crazy is that if we could just separate ourselves from this parasitical class of consultant driven 'solutions', we'd figure it out on our own much easier.

This policy of setting up do gooders with a bottle of bourbon and unlimited ways to cause self profiting mischief hasnt worked out at all.

You'll have to rewrite state law.  By law we have to have a CRA plan.  Since COJ can't do it themselves, they went out and hired consultants to help them with it.  However, at the end of the day, success will hinge on getting away from the failed policies and ideas of the past and thinking a little more holistically about how and why an organically growing urban community works.  While simple, it can't be fixed with one trick ponies, something that was the highlight of last night and has been the highlight of this city for several decades.

[icarus]

While simple, it can't be fixed with one trick ponies, something that was the highlight of last night and has been the highlight of this city for several decades.

I knew it. Someone always wants a pony. ;-)

[Kerry]

This was brought up a little bit by the gentleman in the back that just moved downtown - but unless we have a vocal citizenry driving this stuff accomplishing anything will be very hard.  At some point the consultants will go away, city staff will take jobs in other cities, elected leaders will be voted out, and who the hell knows what the developers will be doing.  The only people here for the long-haul are the residents.  The public has a job to do and we need to get better at doing it.