Jax Chamber Headed to Indianapolis - A few Pointers
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/561502257_sv3kj-M.jpg)
This week, the Chamber of Commerce and city leaders will make their annual pilgrimage to a peer city to seek out innovative ideas and successes that Jacksonville could implement. In years past, without bringing back and implementing tangible results, this trip has come under fire by Jacksonville taxpayers. To help make this trip worthwhile, Metro Jacksonville highlights five Indianapolis projects that Jacksonville representatives should take a close look at.
Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2010-oct-jax-chamber-headed-to-indianapolis-a-few-pointers
More tax dollars wasted IMO.
Sorry. I dont believe it is wasted. Indy is exactly who this town should be emulating. They have done an AMAZING job with their city.
I'm not sure if this is a good investment or not. If this has a profound effect on our leaders and causes them to transform our city for the better, then it was money well spent. Unfortunately, I don't think that will be the case.
I hope the chamber and city leaders take advantage of this primer for their trip.
Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on October 11, 2010, 08:11:07 AM
More tax dollars wasted IMO.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the Civic Council members who are in attendance are taking time off of their busy schedules and covering the costs of the trip themselves. Some of them may also be on the Chamber, so maybe not, but I think these trips are hardly "vacations."
Tax dollars pay for City Council members but not business folks, IIRC.
What has the city learned from prior trips that WAS ACTUALLY IMPLEMENTED ???? If the answer is nothing, then it is a waste. Surfing the net can teach them most of what they will learn on the trip. Face to tface has benefits, but not if nothing is done with the information.
The Kansas City trip did lead to a new organization of local powerbrokers, can't remember the name. Hopefully, something good will come of that.
Quote from: vicupstate on October 11, 2010, 10:19:23 AM
Tax dollars pay for City Council members but not business folks, IIRC.
What has the city learned from prior trips that WAS ACTUALLY IMPLEMENTED ????
My point EXACTLY.
The KC trip lead to the creation of the Civic Council.
Well the first thing that stands out in that pic is that Indy has TWO WAY STREETS downtown. Hmmm...
Kansas City? Indianapolis? Jax is learning from them?
Indy is set up nice. Id even say its kinda sexy. I like the Canal. Hogans Creek? yea... McCoys Creek? Hell no!
I mean the whole learning from KC & Thing? Why not New York, Miami & Chicago?? Im sure they could learn a ton from trips to those places. JV is cool, but Varsity is better.
Coolyfett, I agree that varsity is better, but we'd be wasting our time. To follow your metaphor, Jax would be a chubby 4th grader with aspirations of playing in the NFL. We need to get to the level of the 2nd tier cities first, then go for the big dogs. There is more to be learned from Indy in the near term than NYC anyway.
LOL:
Quote from: Captain Zissou on October 11, 2010, 11:49:07 AM
To follow your metaphor, Jax would be a chubby 4th grader with aspirations of playing in the NFL.
Would that make the official dance of Jacksonville the Truffle Shuffle??
;D
I am really jealous of all those who get to go. Staying at the Conrad...great piece of architecture there. A talk at Indy's Scottish Rite? Wow. Indy is leagues above Jax right now.
And great points Lakelander, just to need to keep drilling it into people. I don't think we should stop private investment in larger projects (I would consider the Laura Trio rehab + Bank Hotel a larger project), but if the city is going to spend tax dollars spend it on exactly what you said.
^There's nothing wrong with private investment of any kind. However, we can get more bang for our buck by better integrating it with complementing investment, land uses and development strategies.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on October 11, 2010, 11:49:07 AM
To follow your metaphor, Jax would be a chubby 4th grader with aspirations of playing in the NFL.
So in other words "a viable replacement for David Garrard."
I think it's a waste of money to make the trip. But I hope they bring back something useful.
Quote from: Coolyfett on October 11, 2010, 11:44:03 AM
Kansas City? Indianapolis? Jax is learning from them?
Indy is set up nice. Id even say its kinda sexy. I like the Canal. Hogans Creek? yea... McCoys Creek? Hell no!
I mean the whole learning from KC & Thing? Why not New York, Miami & Chicago?? Im sure they could learn a ton from trips to those places. JV is cool, but Varsity is better.
The Canal Parkway in Indy has a huge tie in to their history and therefore not only is it a civic asset of high proportions, but a reminder of the history of what Indiana wanted to become.
See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_Central_Canal
It nearly bankrupted the State back in 1847, but years later they have turned it into a jewel.
So what Boondoggle sows ear does Jacksonville have that can be turned into the golden purse?
Perhaps this is why the CoC travels so much, in search of some ancient asset that can be transformed.
This is what the Canal is today:
http://www.indygreenways.org/canal/centralcanal.htm
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on October 11, 2010, 11:28:48 AM
Well the first thing that stands out in that pic is that Indy has TWO WAY STREETS downtown. Hmmm...
as does Jacksonville.....do you think Indy has any one-way streets downtown Chris?
Did they one-way it for a long time like we did?
well a cursory look at Google Maps implies that they still have one-way pairs, just like us...these include:
Washington/Maryland (east-west)
Illinois/Capitol (north-south)
New York/Michigan (east-west)
Delaware/Pennsylvania (north-south)
New Jersey/Alabama (north-south)
It looks like they have two major two-way streets (Market and Meridian) in the middle of downtown.
Chamber of Commerce going else where looking for that "Panacea" is not a problem with me! Atleast they pay for their trip themselves.............what I would like to know, what if any solutions have they brought back? I have yet to see anything concrete............idea's maybe, but something positive, nothing in sight yet!
There are still a number of oneway streets in downtown Indy. Here are a few images I took from Circle Centre Mall a couple of years ago.
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-3337-p1060900.JPG)
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-3354-p1060902.JPG)
Streets are also just as wide and busy as State & Union. Nevertheless, pedestrians still cross the street because there is something worth crossing on the other side.
Seeing the vehicles parked as they are, makes me ask..........what do they do about parking lake? Do they have the same system that we have here? I did note both of the provided pictures show one way travel!
Similar system but parking was much cheaper. The mall in the center of downtown has public garages that charge $1.50 for the first three hours. A $1.50 to be in a virbant downtown with tons to do verses $9.00 in DT Jax for the same period of time. You really can't beat that.
One common misconception is that Jacksonville changed their streets to be one way in the last 50 years or so, around the time of the parking meter. That's not the case. For most of this century, most streets downtown that are one way were one way 100 years ago. There are some exceptions (Main/Ocean, Broad/Jefferson, etc), but it's not a new phenomenon.
In the second picture... on the left... Are those parking meters? :o
Quote from: thelakelander on October 12, 2010, 12:49:47 PM
Similar system but parking was much cheaper. The mall in the center of downtown has public garages that charge $1.50 for the first three hours. A $1.50 to be in a virbant downtown with tons to do verses $9.00 in DT Jax for the same period of time. You really can't beat that.
No you bloody well can't! It cost me $10 Dollars for a five hour stint at City Hall and I needed to be there.....without fail! Something is wrong with this picture, but I see nothing from the City to change this picture which makes me believe they get a cut of that money! Yes BT............they are parking meters!
CS...there are several garages and lots downtown that don't charge more than $6 for the whole day...if you paid $10 it is because you weren't willing to walk an extra block or two...some call that "supply & demand"
Quote from: tufsu1 on October 12, 2010, 04:41:45 PM
CS...there are several garages and lots downtown that don't charge more than $6 for the whole day...if you paid $10 it is because you weren't willing to walk an extra block or two...some call that "supply & demand"
I call it a shady monopoly, as relates to parking in our urban core...
Didn't we already hash this out before tufsu? Once we got ahold of the number of parking spaces, and once we determined the real number of people downtown daily minus all the BS DVI throws into their inflated figures, it turns out that when you add up every single downtown worker, each and every one would have to find a way to bring 4 or 5 cars with them every single day before parking demand would come close to supply.
The only reason the garage prices are what they are is because the garage owners pressure the city to ruthlessly enforce asinine parking policies that drive people into their garages so they can charge $9 despite the garage being mostly empty. The only reason anyone uses them at all is because that's cheaper than a $15 parking ticket. This is the very definition of a rigged market, and has nothing to do with supply and demand.
I have always wondered about the 2 way street dilemna. Here we keep talking about converting the one way streets to two way as a cheap and effective way to promote ease of use, per se, of downtown. However, I have never seen a downtown of a major city that has more 2-ways than 1-ways (granted I haven't been most places). Successful cities that utilize 1-ways: New York, DC, Atlanta, Philly, and I never really paid attention elsewhere, but these cities come to mind. It seems as if most core streets in these cities except for cross streets (and even then) are 1-way.
Are we positive that creating 2-ways would benefit downtown more than inhibit it? I think 1-ways are easy...if you are walking (or even driving) you know which direction the cars are coming from. If you are driving you can get anywhere by making all right hand turns. Intersections don't need turn lanes or turn signals and lights can be more easily timed.
Two ways work but they won't do much alone. They need to be implemented with other pedestrian and business friendly practices. Downtown Lakeland is a great place to see the successful result of two way conversions.
Quote from: simms3 on October 12, 2010, 06:51:04 PM
I have always wondered about the 2 way street dilemna. Here we keep talking about converting the one way streets to two way as a cheap and effective way to promote ease of use, per se, of downtown. However, I have never seen a downtown of a major city that has more 2-ways than 1-ways (granted I haven't been most places). Successful cities that utilize 1-ways: New York, DC, Atlanta, Philly, and I never really paid attention elsewhere, but these cities come to mind. It seems as if most core streets in these cities except for cross streets (and even then) are 1-way.
Are we positive that creating 2-ways would benefit downtown more than inhibit it? I think 1-ways are easy...if you are walking (or even driving) you know which direction the cars are coming from. If you are driving you can get anywhere by making all right hand turns. Intersections don't need turn lanes or turn signals and lights can be more easily timed.
Last Friday I had to go to the UPS store downtown. I was deep in thought(aka being flighty) and sailed right past Hogan Street, which then turned into a 4 block-3 traffic light detour. I dont mind it, but that's the kind of thing that makes people want to follow the traffic patterns and heard right out of downtown instead of heading into downtown.
That's my .02.
QuoteHow $500 Million Turned Car-Centric Indianapolis Into a More Walkable City
Low-slung homes, green lawns and no sidewalks: Many neighborhoods just outside downtown Indianapolis showcase the suburban ideal of the 1950s and 1960s. Developed at the height of the automobile, they made Indiana's capital city a car-centric town. Paths are sometimes worn through the grass like an urban trail, a stripe of pounded dirt cutting through the green that marks how residents have nonetheless found a way to walk their dogs and visit their neighbors on foot.
Despite the apparent need for sidewalks, Indianapolis went more than 20 years without constructing one. With a consolidated city-county government, the footprint of municipal services encompasses 3,000 miles of thoroughfares and residential streets over 400 square miles. But it's not just cars and bikes navigating those streets; there are also pedestrians on the asphalt, hugging the side of the road and trying to patch their way through a city that wasn't designed with them in mind.
But in 2010, Indianapolis saw an infusion of $500 million after it sold its water and sewer utility to a public charitable trust. That money was designated for investment in infrastructure projects in a five-year program called RebuildIndy. Fifty public meetings were held to gather ideas for how to spend the money.
"Consistently, sidewalks were at or near top of list, along with trails and bikeways," says Scott Manning, communications director at Indy's Department of Public Works. While a zoning change in the 1990s required that new developments install sidewalks, there hadn't been enough major projects for that to make a dent. The approximate cost to build all the missing sidewalks along thoroughfares had swelled to $365 million. People were ready for a change.
Full article: https://nextcity.org/daily/entry/indianapolis-walkable-city-carless-commute