Amtrak on the Florida East Coast Moving Forward
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/865226133_APbHD-M.jpg)
Metro Jacksonville takes a look at proposed FEC/Amtrak corridor station renderings. Unfortunately the Jacksonville Terminal didn't make this list.
Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2010-oct-amtrak-on-the-florida-east-coast-moving-forward
how does Jax not make the list?
^If this project comes on line, the Jax station will be the existing location of New Kings Road. If we want our station downtown, we'll most likely need to fund its relocation ourselves.
Thankks for bouncing right back.
forgive me for my misunderstanding - no track sharing aside.. . what is entailed in "relocating" ?
Constructing the actual station.
Way to f***ing GO JACKSONVILLE! -claps sarcastically-
folks....it is really simple....in order for this to make the stimulus list, it needed to get Federal approvals.
There are significant environmental (social and natural) issues with moving the Jax. station back that would have held up the process.....which is the same reason St. Augustine will be using the former FEC station at the north end of downtown versus building a new station closer in.
Relocating the Jax. station is part of the Phase 2 plans for the project.
Quote from: tufsu1 on October 06, 2010, 09:26:27 AM
Relocating the Jax. station is part of the Phase 2 plans for the project.
This is only a half-sarcastic question:
Does the Amshack get much use now? Or is this akin to the Skyway in that we can't move/upgrade until its ridership increases, which can't happen until it's moved/upgraded?
I personally prefer the option of getting Amtrak downtown without federal stimulus money. The key to doing this is dropping the costs down by going with a "no-frills" solution initially and expanding as time goes on and more money becomes available.
QuoteOr is this akin to the Skyway in that we can't move/upgrade until its ridership increases
Speaking of the skyway, we now have reason to believe that the skyway is actually JTA's most busy transit route, in terms of ridership. Look for a future article showing local ridership numbers by route coming soon to a MJ front page near you.
the current station does pretty well...still the highest passenger boardings in Florida....although they would likely increase if downtown.
but to be fair, most people don't choose to take Amtrak based on where the station itself is located....just like they usually don't choose to fly based on an airport's location within the metro area.
Thanks!
Next question - in your opinion, is Phase 2 of this plan ever going to arrive? In our lifetime?
(This one's not sarcastic, btw :))
We've been pushing for this to happen for a long time now. Why does our city keep bowing out when it comes time to hash out the plan with other cities and the FEC? And why do we continue to ignore the fact that we can ask for federal money?
Because we're asking the Feds for money for fake BRT instead of rail.
Quote from: tufsu1 on October 06, 2010, 09:54:39 AM
....just like they usually don't choose to fly based on an airport's location within the metro area.
That's not always true. For example, people often choose the train over flying when they are traveling to NYC based on the airport's location. If you are traveling from, say, DC to Manhattan, even though the train takes longer, when you factor in getting to the station vs. the airport it is usually makes more sense to take Amtrak.
Similarly, in cities that have more than one airport, a particular airport's location will most definitely influence which flights you will choose to take.
So I could see the Jax station location influencing someone's choice of riding the train vs. driving to closer locations like St. Augustine.
I agree finehoe...it isn't always true....
but as you noted, in cities with multiple airports, the decision on which to use is often made based on location (and price, flight times, etc.)....but the location doesn't have much effect on the decision top fly itself.
As for the Jax. location - Clifton Lane is less than 5 miles from downtown and pretty convenient to I-95....I would only consider driving to St. Augustine if I was heading south.
Quote from: tufsu1 on October 06, 2010, 11:30:18 AM
As for the Jax. location - Clifton Lane is less than 5 miles from downtown and pretty convenient to I-95....I would only consider driving to St. Augustine if I was heading south.
I tend to think in an automobile-oriented place like Jacksonville, if someone has to get in their car and drive on I-95, they'd just as soon drive to St. Augustine, whereas if the station was downtown, located on multiple transit lines, there would be more incentive to take the train.
Clustering uses in compact areas promotes vibrancy. Moving Amtrak will most likely benefit Jacksonville more than it will Amtrak. Right now we have thousands of people passing through our city that aren't being exposed to what this community offers. We also have people making decent salaries that are isolated from complementing services. Considering that trains will be broken down and reassembled in Jax, we would essentially become a regional rail hub. Thus, you can have those activities taking place in suburbia or in downtown. If downtown, the people visiting that station and working there become potential customers to downtown businesses, entertainment and recreational areas.
I prefer to travel by train, and have taken Amtrak to New York, Los Angeles, Boston, Philadelphia, Chicago, Kansas City, Baltimore and other cities. Compared to other cities' passenger rail stations, our Clifford Lane Amshack is very inconvenient. It is isolated from lodging, dining and retail. Furthermore, Clifford Lane is not a central location - in reality, many Jacksonville people do not even know that it exists. This lack of visibility hurts train ridership.
Quote from: thelakelander on October 06, 2010, 11:45:55 AM
Clustering uses in compact areas promotes vibrancy. Moving Amtrak will most likely benefit Jacksonville more than it will Amtrak. Right now we have thousands of people passing through our city that aren't being exposed to what this community offers. We also have people making decent salaries that are isolated from complementing services. Considering that trains will be broken down and reassembled in Jax, we would essentially become a regional rail hub. Thus, you can have those activities taking place in suburbia or in downtown. If downtown, the people visiting that station and working there become potential customers to downtown businesses, entertainment and recreational areas.
Finally, someone in Jacksonville is saying what I have been saying all along! ;D
Quote from: Jaxson on October 06, 2010, 01:45:06 PM
Compared to other cities' passenger rail stations, our Clifford Lane Amshack is very inconvenient. It is isolated from lodging, dining and retail. Furthermore, Clifford Lane is not a central location - in reality, many Jacksonville people do not even know that it exists. This lack of visibility hurts train ridership.
I am one of those who at least knows it exists (thanks to this site, incidentally), but have no idea where it is or how to get to it. I admit that's my own fault, as I wallow in my naivety, but it's also because it's not centralized, advertised, or prioritized.
If the main facility was downtown, and we had some kind of commuter/regional rail in place, I'd be on it in a heartbeat.
Google Map of Jax Amtrak station (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Jacksonville+Amtrak,+Jacksonville,+Duval,+Florida+32209&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Jacksonville+Amtrak&gl=us&ei=2L6sTM35G4L78AaNsLD-Bw&ved=0CBMQ8gEwAA&hl=en&cd=1&geocode=FaFXzwEdC_4g-w&split=0&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=23.875,57.630033&t=h&z=17)
Quote from: finehoe on October 06, 2010, 11:36:48 AM
Quote from: tufsu1 on October 06, 2010, 11:30:18 AM
As for the Jax. location - Clifton Lane is less than 5 miles from downtown and pretty convenient to I-95....I would only consider driving to St. Augustine if I was heading south.
I tend to think in an automobile-oriented place like Jacksonville, if someone has to get in their car and drive on I-95, they'd just as soon drive to St. Augustine, whereas if the station was downtown, located on multiple transit lines, there would be more incentive to take the train.
in theory, this is true....
but in reality, very few people access downtown Jax. in anything other than a car today...and for those that use the bus, there is a JTA route serving the existing Amtrak station.
again, in the near future, the station can and should be moved...but as Lake puts it, that benefits the City far more than it does Amtrak
Quote from: Lunican on October 06, 2010, 02:24:53 PM
Google Map of Jax Amtrak station (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Jacksonville+Amtrak,+Jacksonville,+Duval,+Florida+32209&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Jacksonville+Amtrak&gl=us&ei=2L6sTM35G4L78AaNsLD-Bw&ved=0CBMQ8gEwAA&hl=en&cd=1&geocode=FaFXzwEdC_4g-w&split=0&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=23.875,57.630033&t=h&z=17)
Well yes. :)
I think the point I was attempting and failing to make was that I'm certainly not going to want to drive to practically the other side of town to hop on a train to St. Augustine or other points south when I could do it faster in my car. A Downtown location for the main station would be much more convenient for the entire Southside and Arlington/Regency area.
Quote from: tufsu1 on October 06, 2010, 11:30:18 AM
I agree finehoe...it isn't always true....
but as you noted, in cities with multiple airports, the decision on which to use is often made based on location (and price, flight times, etc.)....but the location doesn't have much effect on the decision top fly itself.
As for the Jax. location - Clifton Lane is less than 5 miles from downtown and pretty convenient to I-95....I would only consider driving to St. Augustine if I was heading south.
Clifford Lane is relatively easy to access via U.S. 1 from either I-295 or I-95. The problem is that it is located in an area that is not ideal for an urban Amtrak station. Other cities, like St. Louis, have fixed this problem. The other problem is there is not much else in that area other than a mostly sketchy section of town which has little to offer for rail passengers.
Quote from: Doctor_K on October 06, 2010, 02:38:34 PM
Quote from: Lunican on October 06, 2010, 02:24:53 PM
Google Map of Jax Amtrak station (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Jacksonville+Amtrak,+Jacksonville,+Duval,+Florida+32209&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Jacksonville+Amtrak&gl=us&ei=2L6sTM35G4L78AaNsLD-Bw&ved=0CBMQ8gEwAA&hl=en&cd=1&geocode=FaFXzwEdC_4g-w&split=0&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=23.875,57.630033&t=h&z=17)
Well yes. :)
I think the point I was attempting and failing to make was that I'm certainly not going to want to drive to practically the other side of town to hop on a train to St. Augustine or other points south when I could do it faster in my car. A Downtown location for the main station would be much more convenient for the entire Southside and Arlington/Regency area.
Amen!
We have this wonderful grand old terminal downtown and we have the busiest Amtrak station in the state in a shack away from every amenity in this city. Let's have a little pride, a little ambition or just a little common sense. I know the anti tax crowd will give our local government grief if they pay for anything but let's pony up and get this station moved now.
the problem is the anti-tax crowd is pretty vocal right now...just check out the support for Mike Hogan.
We don't need to raise taxes to get this done. We just need to better utilize our existing assets and money already coming in.
not raising taxes is one thing....but those folks want to cut taxes an spning!
There is funding that is available for restoring the Union Terminal. I notice that cities like Wilmington, Delaware are more assertive with getting the money for their Amtrak station. I have been in touch with our city leaders - they are simply asleep at the switch...
Somebody at Clifford Lane must have some incriminating photos of our city leaders. This location is a trash can and has outlived its usefulness - IMHO
Quote from: Doctor_K on October 06, 2010, 02:10:24 PM
Quote from: Jaxson on October 06, 2010, 01:45:06 PM
Compared to other cities' passenger rail stations, our Clifford Lane Amshack is very inconvenient. It is isolated from lodging, dining and retail. Furthermore, Clifford Lane is not a central location - in reality, many Jacksonville people do not even know that it exists. This lack of visibility hurts train ridership.
I am one of those who at least knows it exists (thanks to this site, incidentally), but have no idea where it is or how to get to it. I admit that's my own fault, as I wallow in my naivety, but it's also because it's not centralized, advertised, or prioritized.
If the main facility was downtown, and we had some kind of commuter/regional rail in place, I'd be on it in a heartbeat.
You can't get to the amshack station without driving to it, that's how the city planned it, no car, no worth!
urbaknight, it looks like CT4 goes to Amshack every 30 min from 5:11am to 12:41am every weekday and every hour on the weekend.
My bad, I forgot about the CT4. But the fact that only one bus runs to and from, speacks to the sarcastic post that I made earlier.
Quote from: urbaknight on October 20, 2010, 04:18:48 PM
My bad, I forgot about the CT4. But the fact that only one bus runs to and from, speacks to the sarcastic post that I made earlier.
buses every 30 minutes...and obviously you can transfer to/from other routes downtown...while not ideal, that's not bad service either
I would not take two or three buses to get to the train station from my home. I would rather take my car or have someone drop me off. I do not feel totally comfortable in that side of town.
Quote from: Jaxson on October 20, 2010, 10:20:36 PM
I would not take two or three buses to get to the train station from my home. I would rather take my car or have someone drop me off. I do not feel totally comfortable in that side of town.
even in cities with good transit systems, point-to-point service without transfers are rare....be that rail-rail, rail-bus, or bus-bus.
Quote from: Jaxson on October 07, 2010, 01:07:00 PM
Somebody at Clifford Lane must have some incriminating photos of our city leaders. This location is a trash can and has outlived its usefulness - IMHO
I laughed my pasta outta my mouf!
thankyou
Quote from: tufsu1 on October 20, 2010, 07:27:17 PM
Quote from: urbaknight on October 20, 2010, 04:18:48 PM
My bad, I forgot about the CT4. But the fact that only one bus runs to and from, speacks to the sarcastic post that I made earlier.
buses every 30 minutes...and obviously you can transfer to/from other routes downtown...while not ideal, that's not bad service either
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/6/78152084_d9c24bcb1a.jpg)
K2 Grand Park / Amtrak / Beach Blvd.
CT4 Atlantic Village / Amtrak INTERLINER SERVICE B7
Not bad headways, it's just too bad that JTA doesn't know what a transfer really is. OCKLAWAHA