Holla here ;D
I still have love for all the Democrats here (I have to it's 90% of posters here LoL), but I feel lonely sometimes ;)
Also, Jax is such a Republican town, especially in the arena of movers and shakers that I think we may have the best ideas in town when it comes to just about anything, but we have to appeal to those in power or those controlling purse strings. There are a couple of libs with deep purses that I can think of, but they are Republican deep down...they are only Democrat for certain hard to understand specific or emotional reasons, energy use being one (the kind of Democrat that wants the windmills at home, you know?). I refer practically every one I know to this site, and practically every one I know is Republican so sometimes I'm worried they're scared off when they see the vitriol directed at people that hold their political views. Not everyone can take it, heh.
Quoteespecially in the arena of movers and shakers that I think we may have the best ideas in town when it comes to just about anything
Wait.. what? Did you pay any attention to the fiasco that came about the past 24 hours in City council?
Riiiiiight.
Many of us just shut are mouths....and type when it is project, transportation related. It's best not to get into political or religious debates with those of opposing views! especially on this site. That's what JOL is for!
I am... though I do not really hang with the fire breathing conservative crowd. Pretty moderate here... tho some might say otherwise... :D
I am a passionate Democrat, but nothing will ever get done unless we all work together. I also enjoy hearing the other side of the argument and sometimes really agree!
I am registered as a Republican. Agreed that this is not the site to expect any real political debate.
Quote from: NotNow on September 29, 2010, 02:46:02 PM
I am registered as a Republican. Agreed that this is not the site to expect any real political debate.
Look, I'll say this as amicably as possible. Democrats in Jacksonville are used to being ganged up on and shouted down. That's how politics work here, unfortunately. This leads Republicans to think that they are winning a debate, when in actuality they're just bullying the opposition.
The thing about MJ is there's actually a pretty even distribution of members of the political spectrum. JOL is way more "left leaning" than MJ.
The key to political debates here is that you have to bring your A-Game. You can't just spout off some talking point and expect for it to slide by and leave you with that feeling of "Yeeeahhh! I won this!"
We're all (on both sides of the spectrum) really well reasoned people. So there's actual real debate when people start opening their mouths. Just don't repeat whatever dumb crap Hannity or Markos Moulitsas told you on the radio.
Quote from: RiversideLoki on September 29, 2010, 02:25:11 PM
Quoteespecially in the arena of movers and shakers that I think we may have the best ideas in town when it comes to just about anything
Wait.. what? Did you pay any attention to the fiasco that came about the past 24 hours in City council?
Riiiiiight.
When I said we, I meant we here on MetroJax. We have the best ideas, but we need to sell them to people with political power and people with deep pockets (often just government nowadays). Our government here in Jax is pretty red, so red it is the socially conservative red. So red that they don't even know what fiscally red is, but they know how to pray red. See I can poke fun of certain Republicans, too, but most of the smartest people that happen to have power or money in this town are also red, so we need to reach out to them. They understand our ideas.
Quote from: RiversideLoki on September 29, 2010, 02:51:04 PM
Look, I'll say this as amicably as possible. Democrats in Jacksonville are used to being ganged up on and shouted down. That's how politics work here, unfortunately. This leads Republicans to think that they are winning a debate, when in actuality they're just bullying the opposition.
The thing about MJ is there's actually a pretty even distribution of members of the political spectrum. JOL is way more "left leaning" than MJ.
The key to political debates here is that you have to bring your A-Game. You can't just spout off some talking point and expect for it to slide by and leave you with that feeling of "Yeeeahhh! I won this!"
We're all (on both sides of the spectrum) really well reasoned people. So there's actual real debate when people start opening their mouths. Just don't repeat whatever dumb crap Hannity or Markos Moulitsas told you on the radio.
Yea I have to disagree with you on most of your points except for the last one. I don't see too many people on here quoting Hannity in the first place (and I agree, the guy may have some good points, but he is a real idiot and annoying too). I do see people on here quoting people and articles from the left equally as idiotic as Hannity, so your point is?
And just because Democrats are ganged up on by only the most uneducated and "socially" conservative Republicans does not mean that they should stoop to that level when and where they can. I can't think of any republican mayors or "real" city leaders (not Yarborough or Redman or whoever else we can easily conjure up here) that we have had who have ganged up on democrats. I certainly don't know any wealthy business leaders who even like to discuss politics in the first place, even the most "red" of them. It seems to me that the more political side on MJ is the left side (and many of us repubs have learned to back away quickly from anything political...so I'm breaking my own rule here), but this could be because it seems 70+% of the posters happen to be left leaning.
I'm still registered as a Libertarian but when completely forced into choosing sides I usually end up voting for a Democrat. In theory the Republicans should be able to get my vote on fiscal issues, but in practice they always seem as capable of mis-spending my tax money as the Dems. In the end I make my decisions on social issues, where I veer to the left.
Repub. (This really called for a poll I suppose)
I am registered Republican but have seen the light or more accurately have seen the darkness. I can understand conservative philosophy but not being Republican. The Government has been dominated by Republicans for about thirty years so basically however you feel about our government is mostly due to Republicans.
StephenDare,
LoL.
I can see your point, but ummm yea. I just could never be a Democrat.
Blizz01...sorry, now I really do feel bad. That would have been the best way!
Quote from: simms3 on September 29, 2010, 03:14:52 PM
I can see your point, but ummm yea. I just could never be a Democrat.
And why's that? Why could you never see yourself being a democrat?
There are points of both Parties that I can understand and believe in but if I had my way, would be an Independent and then let both parties try to win my vote! Primaries should be set up for all person's to vote no matter what political affiliation they are registered as including an "Independent"! There really should be a viable third party option and I am not referring to the Tea Party! They have points I can agree with but not all! I was registered as a Republican but changed when the Party went out there into another universe!.....there is only one other Party in that case! Duval County is predominantly Republican and manages to get voter turnout when needed
QuoteThe thing about MJ is there's actually a pretty even distribution of members of the political spectrum. JOL is way more "left leaning" than MJ.
The key to political debates here is that you have to bring your A-Game. You can't just spout off some talking point and expect for it to slide by and leave you with that feeling of "Yeeeahhh! I won this!"
We're all (on both sides of the spectrum) really well reasoned people. So there's actual real debate when people start opening their mouths. Just don't repeat whatever dumb crap Hannity or Markos Moulitsas told you on the radio.
Another area MJ tries to stay above the fray in these discussions is a sincere attempt by most to keep things civil. Links are provided to back up claims and we try to ensure folks stay accurate. This is not to say things do not get heated... they do... most who bother to jump into the fray are genuinely interested in an exchange of ideas rather than a shouting match featured on other sites.
There are many Republicans and Democrats on this site.
However, the main focus of the site is not politics so we try to keep it contained to the politics sections. The national politics area exists simply because there is interest in it and sometimes it will have a bearing on local issues.
The articles and ideas posted don't have any political affiliation.
I'm with CS, though I have always been a registered independent. I used to identify with Republicans, at least with some of their points. I'm what they call, I guess, fiscally conservative but socially liberal. More to the point I don't think government has anything to do with who marries who or who aborts what, or religion, etc. I find myself supporting some
I hate that everything nowadays is Republican or Democrat. Us vs Them. I have friends and family of all political stripes and we always seem to get along, even if we disagree on things like taxes, welfare, etc.
I notice MetroJax does try to keep political arguments out of all other parts of the forum, which is nice. I mean, which political affiliation holds any bearing on whether or not the city should condemn or demolish an old building?
Of course, I see the situation quite differently. I don't see any debate from Ben Nelson or Nancy Pelosi. I see back room deals when medical reform was pushed through. Ole Ben didn't hold any public debate for that. Ms. Pelosi...well, just google and use your own mind. I kept my mouth shut for the first year of Obama's administration in order to give him a chance to actually lay down a record. Sheess...appointing lobbyists, tax cheats, even blatant socialists. This years deficit will likely reach $2.5 TRILLION dollars. They still claim that they have not raised taxes on the middle class. The Democrat Congress is full of deal making and some outright criminal behavior that no one seems to want to do anything about it.
Of course, the Republicans weren't much better when they held Congress. My thoughts these days are to shrink the Federal Government down to what the US Constitution authorizes and give these clowns as little leeway as possible, no matter what letter they claim after their name. All of our politics should be a little closer to home.
I consider myself neither republican nor democrat, ( i.e. independent) and I vote based on a net summation of ideas put forward by either party. Basically I think the Democratic Party is more sensitive to the social wellbeing of the man on the street while the Republican Party is more aligned with big business and the rich. I can more readily understand a wealthy democrat, since he doesn't need either party, than I can relate to a poor republican whose Party says to him, you are on your own.
Having said that, I favor certain moral ideals put forward by Republican/Conservatives (e.g. optional prayers in schools, etc. etc.) and I favor the more pacifist principles of Democrats when it comes to foreign policy.
As far as MJ, I like to read posts that are more even-handed and can see some good in either Party rather than those of us who constantly rail on one party or the other. (NotNow is an example of the latter, not ever giving ary ground on Democrats or Liberals.)
We need a congress that will debate honestly for the good of the country. Republicans today do not want to give credit to Democrats for moving the country forward and if the Republicans were the ones in power, Democrats would be doing the same. In other words, our government is *@#$%^-up!
I am a registered Republican who thinks Jack Kemp should have been on the ticket in place of Bob Dole, will vote for Deborah Gianoulis over John Thrasher for State Senate, was very fond of Jeb Bush but won't vote for Rick Scott, thought Bill Clinton was a better President than Obama will ever be(and would have voted Hillary over Obama in a heartbeat), was a very proud American the day I got to vote for John McCain for President of the United States(I volunteered with the former 'Noles for McCain' team when McCain was running against Bush in 2000-not supported by the Young Republican Club of Florida btw), once heard a lecture at FSU given by Ralph Nader and thought of him as an extremely intelligent man(and immediately understood why he was not electable when he argued for the legalization of prostitution and marijuana), and who also thinks Meghan McCain is just about the most perfect woman on the planet.
I can't stand talking points, hollow rhetoric, nor the bunker mentalities prevelant in politics.
I view issues and challenges facing our society/country/state/city as either being right or wrong... not left or right.
QuoteI vote based on a net summation of ideas put forward by either party
I 100% agree with this quote.
And if anyone knows if Meghan McCain will be in Georgia, Florida, or Alabama for a book signing.... please let me know :)
Hmm...pretty little rich girl. I like the way you think!
FINALLY! Something we can agree on!
(http://imgur.com/blynI.jpg)
Quote from: Cricket on September 29, 2010, 05:24:54 PM
Basically I think the Democratic Party is more sensitive to the social wellbeing of the man on the street while the Republican Party is more aligned with big business and the rich.
Says it all. Peyton, Maloney, Crewnshaw et al will never stand up to the services of Godbold, Tanzler, Austin,
Charles Bennett, Corrine Brown. Same with our current mayoral candidates. or any member of the democratic party.
-I also dont like consensus building. I like a clear vision(no ambiguity) where input is received as to the best way to achieve that vision, taking in consideration the needs/challenges that arise from that vision, and then to just get it done. Consensus builders typically create a muddled product that tries too hard to please everyone and ultimately pleases no one, IMO. The art of compromise is vastly different than consensus.
-Its the result that counts. Moral victories don't count.
-Also, I may not agree with you... but I'll always listen what you have to say. There is no other way to learn than by listening to those around you. Without having compassion for someone else's viewpoint, you can never know what the hell you are really talking about.
That pretty much sums up the basics of my political ideals. Strong leaders, clear vision, right versus wrong, and compassion.
I think one reason that politics aren't discussed much on this board is that local issues transcend a lot of party rhetoric. Education, infrastructure, public safety, employment, and quality of life issues in this city are all very locally unique things. The President and Congress have very little to do about the how and why we run our city, IMO.
I think there's a hint of politics in more than half of the threads that I see posted on here. Hate to sound whiny, but it's usually the little comments (made consistently by about 5 posters) about a subject like rail or planning and voila "evil republicans" are tied in somehow. Just saying, I do think politics is pretty prevalent on MJ, even in seemingly neutral topics where we on this board generally agree. I have seen rail topics turn to how textbooks in schools have gotten too conservative (when I personally believe the opposite to be true, but I never reply to those posts even though it's hard not to). Also, perhaps the most active forum board is the politics board. I feel like I am reading the entire Huffington Post sometimes just from the most recent commented posts on the front page. Not necessarily bad, but it's hard to deny that politics is a huge thing on MJ and that for every "noone" there are probably 3-4 equally vocal left wing posters ready to share an article or liberal opinion on just about everything.
Your right of course even though I am one of the ones who throws jabs at the republicans. I know personally I do not want to make the atmosphere unfriendly. Politics is relevant when you are talking about policy decisions regarding infrastructure like rail and the money it takes to get things done. The debates do often get twisted and perhaps should be spun into new threads.
Maybe I'm just more concerned about how our city can be better and don't pay attention to such conversations. I just think locally, there's what works and what doesn't work. What's equitable and what is unfair. I don't think you have to be Republican, Democrat, Libretarian, etc to get things right.
You may have a point. I may just tune out postings that I don't find relevant to the conversation, which is fine by me. There are too many complainers, and not enough people offering solutions. Complaining and mud throwing isn't conversation. Maybe we should all tune out the irrelevance :)
Also although I would never admit it to my grandmother(who could very well fall over dead if she knew), but I would have considered voting for Hillary against a couple of the Republican candidates that were available early on in the primaries... assuming they were matched up head to head in the general election.
And full disclosure, I have never voted for a Democratic presidential candidate, nor came close to doing so.
Quote from: fieldafm on September 29, 2010, 08:53:45 PM
And full disclosure, I have never voted for a Democratic presidential candidate, nor came close to doing so.
To follow your disclosure, ive never voted for any Republican, presidential candidate or otherwise.
My reason is i feel the democratic party speaks for the working class, middle class constituants best. Also, i have drawn conclusions of republican candidates choosing business, wealth, over the middle to lower income citizens of our country. Accordingly, almost all the candidates ive supported were, are liberal, especially in social issues ( although Charles Bennett was quite conservative in his tenure.
Would you care to say why you strongly support the republican party or have such a dislike of the democratic party?
I'm surprised to see someone say that this board is 70%, 90% liberal from their perspective. Of all the internet forums I've lurked on or participated in the past 12 years, this one seems to have a higher fraction of right-leaning participants of any I've been on, especially considering its focus (generally more liberal topics of sustainability, urbanity, multi-modal transportation, etc.) I'm not saying that surprises or bothers me, because I would expect a Jacksonville forum to reflect it's more conservative populous, and from my perspective, this forum does that. It's a good balance here. It just also brings other voices to the table, which might be in contrast to the off-line life one could have in Jax or elsewhere in the Bible Belt, that is, surrounded only by the discourse of people on the same end of the spectrum. But that's maybe the culture clash between a regional isolation and the great stew of viewpoints found on the more nationally and globally exposed internet. A forum that is really and truly a majority left-leaning... is a much different beast from this board! Trust me on that! On such, there is no debate to be found... just agreeing. ;)
ive thought that jacksonville.com was far more right conservative than any concerning Jacksonville.
QuoteWould you care to say why you strongly support the republican party or have such a dislike of the democratic party?
I think you may be hearing(or more accurately reading) only what you want to hear. I wrote that I will vote for a Democrat over the most powerful Republican in the state, considered voting for Hillary Clinton, will not be voting for Rick Scott, and specifically said 'I view issues and challenges facing our society/country/state/city as either being right or wrong... not left or right.' Nowhere did I say I had 'such a dislike of the democratic party'
To me, there is right and wrong. You don't have to have a certain marking on your voter's registration card to be on either side of right or wrong.
Im in favor of immigration reform, unions, the environment, lifting of the Cuban embargo, against the death penalty, against mandatory prayers in school(disclaimer I went to Catholic school), etc... and
all sorts of things that would be considered 'Democratic issues'. I'm kind of like a bookie... 49% of the time on one side, 51% the other side. It just so happens that the 51% leans to the right. In fact, until two years ago my voter card read independent since I was 18.
The reason I changed this to 'Republican' was actually due to my grandmother and 'social issues'.
My grandmother used to speak of equality constantly... and always talked about the 14th, 15th, and 19th Amendments. All major pieces of social legislation that were all focused on living up to the ideal that America was founded on equality for all. You can debate all you want about what the original slogan meant(all men are created equal=did they mean only free men, no women, etc) but the promise of America has and always will be equality and opportunity. All amendments sponsored by and pushed through by Republicans.
Also, IMO the most important equal rights issue of our time is education and this is an issue I lean strongly to the right on. I could give statistics upon statistics that prove education is a common denominator in a variety of social inequalities. I had the fortunate opportunity to hear Mel Martinez speak on this very issue once... specifically about having quality education for all and how the opportunity to obtain that education and subsequent self-discovery could transform people from very humble beginnings into doing very great things.
There is another very personal reason... but this is the basis of why I consider myself a Republican... but I vote on the basis of an independent study and understanding of an issue, not what a party line says I should vote for.
The two politicians I admire most are John McCain and the late Jack Kemp. Neither are exactly the prototypical 'Republican'. And frankly, there are
several issues I don't agree with them on either. I could actually go on for days about how McCain once screwed over the pilot's union over a labor contract dispute several years ago.
Thanks for your honesty in your reply. Also, for your specifics. You sound very open minded in your approach to support the candidate you choose. I know you will choose carefully your choice for next years mayor.
There are more registered democrats than registered republicans though the number of democrats may be skewing lately to independents. So I can understand why that would be reflected on MJ. Although I can understand why people who are self-sufficient would vote republican or democrat, I have a hard time understanding the logic of voting for the republican party if you are socially and economically disadvantaged since the party with the social programs is the democratic party. Granted, there are other reasons other than socio-economic concerns that pulls someone to one party or the other.
The beauty of this site as far as I'm concerned is that labels are pretty unimportant. I'm sure a lot of people on here vote for the same political party as me most of the time, and I'm sure a lot don't. But almost everyone on here is strongly on board with common sense solutions that should (and on this site, usually do) transcend political party. I think the injection of party labels into the conversation tends to detract from the fact that the vast majority of us can agree on most of the prevailing discussion topics on here as to Jacksonville's problems and to their logical solutions. Identifying with one party or another doesn't and shouldn't mean either pro- or anti- rail or urban core or whatever have you (though I can understand how that stereotype could be drawn based on the city as a whole or national leadership). I definitely side with one party over the other, but have never found this board to be overly friendly or hostile to either party, and with the issues at hand party is nothing but a distraction from the goal. (Yes, the explicitly political or social issues threads can get hot, but I just stay out of those.)
QuoteBut almost everyone on here is strongly on board with common sense solutions that should (and on this site, usually do) transcend political party. I think the injection of party labels into the conversation tends to detract from the fact that the vast majority of us can agree on most of the prevailing discussion topics on here as to Jacksonville's problems and to their logical solutions.
+1!
Quote from: Cricket on September 30, 2010, 11:31:14 AM
There are more registered democrats than registered republicans though the number of democrats may be skewing lately to independents. So I can understand why that would be reflected on MJ. Although I can understand why people who are self-sufficient would vote republican or democrat, I have a hard time understanding the logic of voting for the republican party if you are socially and economically disadvantaged since the party with the social programs is the democratic party. Granted, there are other reasons other than socio-economic concerns that pulls someone to one party or the other.
Exactly, Cricket. And those social programs that are not only defined by democrats , but routinely opposed by republicans , are essential building blocks for the development of ANY metropolitan area. Including MetroJacksonville!
Also fieldafm, im curious why you omitted the 24th amendment in defining your republican historical influence.
The 24th amendment was passed because of the ineffectiveness of the 14th and 15th amendments. By democratic leadership, adamantly opposed by the republicans. Its one of the strongest social amendments in the constitution.
24th amendment=poll tax elimination? I don't see how that's relevant to me whatsoever... seeing as though I would have been opposed to a poll tax.
I wasn't alive in the 50's and 60's, but from what I understand... support of a poll tax was much more racially motivated than politically motivated. Mississippi or Alabama(one of the two) rejected it, and several Southern states never ratified the 24th.
And if memory serves from the American History course I took way back in 1994, the equal protection clause spelled out in Amendment 14 is the basis for most Supreme Court cases that support the 24th... so it sounds like the 14th was a pretty decent piece of legislation if you ask me.
If you're talking about something else, then please forget my post lol.
Quote from: hillary supporter on September 30, 2010, 02:46:12 PM
Quote from: Cricket on September 30, 2010, 11:31:14 AM
There are more registered democrats than registered republicans though the number of democrats may be skewing lately to independents. So I can understand why that would be reflected on MJ. Although I can understand why people who are self-sufficient would vote republican or democrat, I have a hard time understanding the logic of voting for the republican party if you are socially and economically disadvantaged since the party with the social programs is the democratic party. Granted, there are other reasons other than socio-economic concerns that pulls someone to one party or the other.
Exactly, Cricket. And those social programs that are not only defined by democrats , but routinely opposed by republicans , are essential building blocks for the development of ANY metropolitan area. Including MetroJacksonville!
Also fieldafm, im curious why you omitted the 24th amendment in defining your republican historical influence.
The 24th amendment was passed because of the ineffectiveness of the 14th and 15th amendments. By democratic leadership, adamantly opposed by the republicans. Its one of the strongest social amendments in the constitution.
Exactly democrats spend money on America and Americans . Republicans spend money on multinationals and nation building after their wars.
My apologies to fieldafm, i associated the civil rights act of 1964 with the 24th amendment which was incorrect, I stand corrected.
I know something else everyone definitely can agree on...
Avatars of kittens playing the guitar.
Is cute crap more of a Democratic or a Republican thing?
Cats playing instruments should be universal and transcend party lines.
Quote from: urbanlibertarian on September 30, 2010, 06:00:35 PM
Is cute crap more of a Democratic or a Republican thing?
Definitely democratic, and liberal.
Thanks Wacca Pilatka for the cats meow!
I'm confused...........I thought it was "Republican" and right wing? ::)
i have a hard time associating cute crap with the Bush family, John Mc Cain, and absolutely NOT Ronald Reagan!
But Ronny had Bobo the chimp.
Quote from: JeffreyS on September 30, 2010, 09:04:11 PM
But Ronny had Bobo the chimp.
And the jelly beans remember? But that was serious @#$!
Quote from: JeffreyS on September 30, 2010, 09:04:11 PM
But Ronny had Bobo the chimp.
http://www.google.com/search?q=chimp+attack
Not at all in the same category as a kitten! Yeah, try that first link in the results if you have tissue nearby and a strong stomach.