Metro Jacksonville

http://jacksonville.com/opinion/blog/403455/larry-hannan/2010-09-14/do-you-ride-bus-jacksonville (http://jacksonville.com/opinion/blog/403455/larry-hannan/2010-09-14/do-you-ride-bus-jacksonville)

QuoteThe possibility of bus service being shut down in Jacksonville remains a distinct possibility with JTA and the bus drivers union negotiating a new contract.

The bus union has voted to strike, but pledged not to walk out while negotiations are occurring.

The Times-Union wants to talk to people who ride the bus to work. What will you do if there is no bus service? Where do you take the bus now? How often do you ride the bus?

People can contact staff writer Larry Hannan by calling (904) 359-4470 or by e-mailing him at larry.hannan@jacksonville.com.

Please include your name, age and where you live on all e-mails.

My favorite part of this whole thing was when Channel 4 was at the Rosa Parks station interviewing people about the potential strike, and everybody was talking about how the drivers are rude & nasty and always late, one lady said the way things runs now "you'd think they were on strike already..."

My younger brother walks the mile and a half to work, even in 90 degree weather, because it's both faster and more reliable than taking the bus.

My wife took the bus to UNF from the Kernan and Arlington areas back in 2002-2004... the bus was either late, early, or just blew right past her (especially if it was raining). She gave up after a driver asked her "damn, you been putting on weight?" and bought a beat-up old Honda.

I took the bus back when I worked at AOL in 1998. At that time, it was a 2 and a half hour journey from my home near Empire Point to the Imeson Park AOL call center. The driver regularly flew thru stops, missed turns, drove into curbs, etc.

The bus drivers should be thankful they haven't all been fired and replaced with trained howler monkeys, who would be both more polite and more reliable.

If you can afford a car, there is absolutely no compelling reason to ever ride a Jacksonville bus. It's a shame.

i ride 10 miles to work on my bike, which takes about 45-50 minutes, because it's faster than riding the bus.

I have no choice but to ride the bus, I'm legally blind. I'm lucky though, I moved to the riverside/Murray Hill area last year. Although I had lots of bad experiences when I lived on the Southside, The route I live near now has decent bus drivers, I get downtown in 10 to 15 minutes, they're late but it's consistently 5 to 10 minutes. Now if you have to take two or more buses, you're screwed. I'm in no way defending JTA, I'm just giving credit where credit is due. However, I'm siding with the general consensus against JTA, They do suck and I stand by all of posts regarding the matter.

No way in heck will I take a JTA bus, made that mistake once and only once!

I have ridden the bus, from Southside to downtown, several times just to see what takes place. Bus was basically empty to downtown.....had a total of 3 riders till arrival! Have ridden the Riverside Trolley once just to experience how it differs from regular bus service and have ridden the $kyway twice, once again just for the experience..........not impressed.............two riders in one direction and 1 rider in the other! Got on at the Prime Osburn end and returned to the start point! Riverside Trolley was atleast half full in both directions!

Hell no!

I mentioned this before but... during a year of high school I rode the city bus everyday from Mandarin to San Marco and back. It was generally on time even though I secretly hoped it was late keeping me from first period.

What I hated was the duration of the trip. I had to get up so much earlier than everyone else to catch that early bus.. an hour ride for 20 minute trip.

The positive was I learned early how to get anywhere in town using the bus which kept me from bumming rides and killing myself over not having a car at 16.

I take the bus between 2-4 times a week.  From the northside to the westside.  In rush-hour traffic (my normal commute) it takes: Car - 25-35 minutes.  JTA - 1:15.  Bike - 55 min.  (It's about a 17 mile trip)  I do it either of the three any given day - depend on my meeting schedule.  They each have their upsides and downsides, so my thought is - it's another service that's provided, that's cheap, but it takes a while.  BUT - when i'm on the silver bullet ;)  i do get to catch up on my reading and podcasts.

I rode the bus pretty consistently over the past month; now that my car is in town I probably will ride it about half the time (since that's what I did the last time I lived in Jax from 2006-09 when my car was in town- sometimes it is with my parents in Atlanta).  Its definitely much longer than driving for me (40-60 min., as opposed to 15-25 driving), but it does give me a chance to get some exercise and/or catch up on reading.

Generally I was pretty satisfied; it is usually late but not ridiculously so, and I generally had OK experiences with drivers.

Buses are usually more crowded than I remember them being in 2006-09, perhaps because JTA has merged some bus routes.  I have actually had to sit next to someone rather than having two seats to myself- very rare a couple of yrs ago.  (The "empty buses" claim even then often  wasn't quite true; buses may start empty but they may fill up along the route, or vice versa).

Just out of curiousity......unless you have a problem with answering this..........which route number do you ride? I know that the Philips Hwy run, don't remember the number since it has been awhile, usually would have 3 to 6 and that was about it all the way to downtown......it was also early in the AM, like eightish!

I actually ride it maybe once or twice a month. The husband rides it at least 8x a week.
Mostly on the BH-1 (arguably the most popular for ridership), sometimes on the WS-2 or P-4. I think he now catches one of the CT's since it runs more frequently, but I don't always ask him.
Used to ride the L-7 a few times a week but his job changed locations.
One car between us all right now, and not likely to get the other one any time soon, so if there isn't a bus to run him to/from work then we're more than inconvenienced.

A side note: I actually ride the skyway between San Marco and Rosa Parks when I have to visit the Dr @ Baptist. I get a nice little walk outta the deal as well.

I would encourage you to email Mr Hannan... the majority of the people who emailed about the skyway were people that just complained about what a waste of money it was, but yet have never ridden it.

People in this city are pretty good at complaining, but not so good about doing something about it.

I catch either the L7-8 from DT to my Job & Back & the WS-2 from my house to DT. 

Driving - 7am to 6pm
JTA - 6:30am to 7pm
Bike - 6am (to avoid the heat and shower when I get to work) to 6:30pm

Quote from: fieldafm on September 15, 2010, 08:01:14 PM
I would encourage you to email Mr Hannan... the majority of the people who emailed about the skyway were people that just complained about what a waste of money it was, but yet have never ridden it.

People in this city are pretty good at complaining, but not so good about doing something about it.

Thanks for reminding me the purpose of this thread - I just sent him an elaborated version of my post. I do hope it will help him out.

For one, I'd love to just catch the bus home with my son and leave the car d-town for the Mr. to drive home when his bus arrives at night sometimes.   But he says it's too dangerous.
Hah. Puh-leeez. I've ridden Dade/Broward transit for years before moving back up here and getting my own wheels, and even used skates in between stops... I'm not scared.

Do you ride the bus in Jacksonville?

No. 

It don't go when or where I need to go. Not enough cup holders. The radio ........radio? 

Rode the Riverside Trolley Bus yesterday for the first time since the new hours and routing were put in place.  Did it just to see if the new route would be useful since we mostly use it to go downtown to the library.

The driver, who said she was a twelve year veteran of JTA, was cheerful, helpful, polite and highly skilled.  The trolley-bus was noisy and bumpy, but she drove smooth and safe.  She also said that the lunchtime crowd was complaining about the fare increase, but that she had not noticed and reduction in riders.  Since we have senior passes, it is not an issue for us and there were several people who rode to the FSCJ-Kent campus with us.

Thank God I have my own transportation.

I've taken AirJTA 4 or 5 times and never had any problems.

Other than that, no.

QuoteRode the Riverside Trolley Bus yesterday for the first time since the new hours and routing were put in place.  Did it just to see if the new route would be useful since we mostly use it to go downtown to the library.

How often have you used it in the past?
Would you say the route and headways were useful to you?
Would you use it more frequently or infrequently now that you've experienced the changes?

Thank you in advance if you care to share.  I know that's quite a bit of questions, Im just extremely interested as I think the success of this route could be evidence used for fixed mass transit options to the urban neighborhoods surrounding downtown.

Quote from: fieldafm on September 17, 2010, 03:06:46 PM
Thank you in advance if you care to share.  I know that's quite a bit of questions, Im just extremely interested as I think the success of this route could be evidence used for fixed mass transit options to the urban neighborhoods surrounding downtown.

The success of this route cannot be used as an accurate gauge of ridership on fixed transit. Streetcars appeal to a broader market and heritage streetcars to the broad market and tourism. Tuscon Arizona had a similar "pct trolley" which ran from the university into downtown via all of the cool entertainment spots, on something close to a 16 hour day/365 at about .50 cents per ride. A heritage streetcar operated by volunteers operated over a fraction of the same route from the university in the general direction (but not into) downtown, 2 days a week, at several dollars per ride. In a year of operation the heritage streetcar actually had more riders by a large margin, proof enough that you just don't get "streetcars" from "potato chip trucks."

OCKLAWAHA

Quote from: Ocklawaha on September 17, 2010, 09:24:07 PM

Quote from: fieldafm on September 17, 2010, 03:06:46 PM
Thank you in advance if you care to share.  I know that's quite a bit of questions, Im just extremely interested as I think the success of this route could be evidence used for fixed mass transit options to the urban neighborhoods surrounding downtown.

The success of this route cannot be used as an accurate gauge of ridership on fixed transit. Streetcars appeal to a broader market and heritage streetcars to the broad market and tourism. Tuscon Arizona had a similar "pct trolley" which ran from the university into downtown via all of the cool entertainment spots, on something close to a 16 hour day/365 at about .50 cents per ride. A heritage streetcar operated by volunteers operated over a fraction of the same route from the university in the general direction (but not into) downtown, 2 days a week, at several dollars per ride. In a year of operation the heritage streetcar actually had more riders by a large margin, proof enough that you just don't get "streetcars" from "potato chip trucks."

OCKLAWAHA

That's all when and good Ock, but it seems that JTA needs any and all encouragement it can get.  If you could show increased business along that route based on increased ridership from a not-really-a-trolley line, combined with positive economic results from other communities that have adopted streetcar lines... wouldn't that just be more ammunition to use to encourage private businesses to get behind the idea to push fixed mass transit in this city?  Certain interested parties/businesses that have tremendous power have traditionally been opposed to fixed transit in this city.  If fixed mass transit is to become a reality, it would seem that an important part is to get businesses who would benefit from such systems to get behind the push.  Businesses tend to follow money. 

The PCT routes is the way JTA has decided to go at this time, so at least IMO it stands to reason to at least work with what you've been given and use the experience gained and lessons learned to push for a much better way in the future, no?

Its an incremental step for sure, but Rome's streetcars weren't built in a day.   :)

I'll have to brush up on the Tuscon example.  Thanks for the info!

;D


The Tucson example was originally published by http://www.lightrailnow.org/search.htm, and I reprinted it in the old MetJax forum. I have spent several hours looking for the article as I was going to re-repost it and I'll be damned if I can find it now. The guys at LRN are very helpful and would probably be able to locate the article next week if we asked them.

The reason for my adverse reaction to the PCT-Streetcar tie in is that many (maybe most) people in Jacksonville don't know the difference and don't want to hear it. The former Director of SPAR said it when she heard my proposal for restoring the postcard Main Street, "Oh Lord no! We don't need streetcars in Jacksonville, we already have TROLLEYS!"

I immediately stuck a fork in my hand to make sure I really heard this and that I wasn't dead and in HELL! Nope! I was still alive and in total disbelief. Since that day I can't count how many times I've heard the same or a similar line ranging from, "The people hate rail, but they love our trolleys," from JTA to "Don't we already have trolleys," from city council.

Yes, the successful ridership is a great thing, and yes those figures might plug into a study for demand-supply of raw product, but the tendency is to make much more of it since the PCT's are plastic show-boats, glitzy abominations, neither streetcars, trolleys or even good buses.

Ever wonder what it might look like if the baby died and the after-birth lived? JTA knows and calls them trolleys. Rest assured that the day I take over mass transit at JTA (like that will ever happen) that entire fleet is headed for artificial reef status just as soon as age dictates their last mile. Even as deep sea reefs those circus clown buses just might kill the fish.


OCKLAWAHA  ::)

JTA is a joke,

Quote from: Ocklawaha on September 17, 2010, 09:24:07 PM

Quote from: fieldafm on September 17, 2010, 03:06:46 PM
Thank you in advance if you care to share.  I know that's quite a bit of questions, Im just extremely interested as I think the success of this route could be evidence used for fixed mass transit options to the urban neighborhoods surrounding downtown.

The success of this route cannot be used as an accurate gauge of ridership on fixed transit. Streetcars appeal to a broader market and heritage streetcars to the broad market and tourism. Tuscon Arizona had a similar "pct trolley" which ran from the university into downtown via all of the cool entertainment spots, on something close to a 16 hour day/365 at about .50 cents per ride. A heritage streetcar operated by volunteers operated over a fraction of the same route from the university in the general direction (but not into) downtown, 2 days a week, at several dollars per ride. In a year of operation the heritage streetcar actually had more riders by a large margin, proof enough that you just don't get "streetcars" from "potato chip trucks."

OCKLAWAHA

Right on the money as usual, Ock.

Head time, head time, head time.  Did I say head time?  We generally ride the trolley-bus three or four times per month to go to the main library downtown and have lunch at Chamblin's or Magnificat Cafe.  (Bernard and Kathy DeClef are former neighbors, really good people and the food is terrific.)

All of the P route buses run close to us as well, but we've only tried them once but were discouraged by the long waits and unpredictable schedules.

If it's too blinking hot or raining, we take the car and can always find parking on the street within a block or two of the library, but the meters we find are one hour max and that is generally too short for the time we want to spend.  The trolley-buses are our preference and we are looking forward to the expanded hours even with thirty-five minute head time.  We haven't tried the expanded hours yet and I am afraid that will be too long to stand out in the sun with no bench and no shelter.

The trolley-buses are noisy and rough riding, but the distances are short.  If you have never ridden a "real" on-the-rails street car you have no appreciation of how much quieter, smoother and all around more pleasant they are to ride.  Even the ancient St. Charles line in New Orleans is far superior to the trolley-buses and they aren't even air-conditioned.

Dog Walker, it would be nice if JTA got the message, but I would not hold my breath for it to take place. You would self destruct from a lack of oxygen before that happens!

Quote from: CS Foltz on September 18, 2010, 04:25:00 PM
Dog Walker, it would be nice if JTA got the message, but I would not hold my breath for it to take place. You would self destruct from a lack of oxygen before that happens!

It COULD happen CS, you do know that Moon in Aquarius right now!

http://www.youtube.com/v/EhbxI5eVnM4?fs=1&hl=en_US&color1=0x402061&color2=0x9461ca

BTW, the opening scene's star is an old Continental Trailways Silver Eagle - 5 with stick shift and without the new style roof cap. I once went 12 rounds with one of these beasts stalled on the steep bus ramp at the entry of the Jacksonville Trailways station! But for all the negative Nellie's out there it also demonstrates the pleasures of travel on a real and decent motor coach. Something I have been trying to convince JTA about for the long express routes... danish and coffee anyone? reclining seats and wifi? fax machine/scanner/copier and music? 110 volt outlets and TV monitors? WHO THE HELL WOULDN'T RIDE?

Finally lets do something the rest of Florida isn't!

See:
http://www.bauerswi-drive.org/
http://www.silvereaglebus.com/model15.htm

OCKLAWAHA

QuoteEver wonder what it might look like if the baby died and the after-birth lived? JTA knows and calls them trolleys.

Although, I dont quite share the same amount of contentiousness for the PCT trucks that you do... that's pretty damn funny  ;D

QuoteIf it's too blinking hot or raining, we take the car and can always find parking on the street within a block or two of the library, but the meters we find are one hour max and that is generally too short for the time we want to spend.  The trolley-buses are our preference and we are looking forward to the expanded hours even with thirty-five minute head time.  We haven't tried the expanded hours yet and I am afraid that will be too long to stand out in the sun with no bench and no shelter.

Thanks for the insight DogWalker!  The headways during peak lunchtimes have been reduced to 15 minutes.  Here is the current schedule.  FYI the last 3 days I rode the service, the busses have been pretty spot on these times suprisingly!

http://www.jtafla.com/pdf/Sept%202010%20Service%20Changes/Riverside%20Trolley.pdf (http://www.jtafla.com/pdf/Sept%202010%20Service%20Changes/Riverside%20Trolley.pdf)

QuoteAnother motivation for more mass transit options making short trips in and out of Downtown has been the success of the Riverside Trolley. More than three years ago, it began carrying passengers between Downtown and 5 Points during the workweek lunch hour. The service was recently expanded to include a longer route and Saturday service to accommodate riders to the Riverside Arts Market.

Boyle said the Riverside Trolley has helped spark interest in streetcars.

“It has proven there is a market for short trips,” said Boyle.

http://jaxdailyrecord.com/downtowntoday.php?dt_date=2010-09-22 (http://jaxdailyrecord.com/downtowntoday.php?dt_date=2010-09-22)

:)

Duhhhhhhhhh!