I have a big pet peeve about restaurants - extra hidden charges.
Here's how it goes:
Me: How much is this dinner?
Them: $10
Me: Ok, I'll take that then.
Them: Would you like ketchup, cheese, bacon, or lettuce with that?
Me: Ok
......Later when the bill comes....
Me: What?? Why are you charging me $13 for a food you said was $10?
Them: Oh, the cheese and bacon and ketchup (and whatever extra thing they neglect to mention) were extra.
Me: -Not in a happy mood-
Why do so many restaurants always talk about extra stuff acting like it's a free and included in the price when it's an extra cost? Very few restaurants say this: "Would you like to add this extra thing for only a $1 like at my local McDonalds?"
I remember another restaurant where they completely messed up an order. They basically said, "Oh, we're sorry we completely messed up your order, would you like an ice cream?" - waitress acting like she's giving the ice cream for free because of the mess up. Bill comes later.....$5 Ice Cream.
Why aren't more restaurants more upfront about things that are included in the price or things that are extra? When the bill comes up they even look surprised I mentioned it. It's like they think I can't add or something.
oh did you want the roach legs picked out of the ground beef? that's extra.
Quote from: cityimrov on September 08, 2010, 03:33:30 AM
I have a big pet peeve about restaurants - extra hidden charges.
Here's how it goes:
Me: How much is this dinner?
Them: $10
Me: Ok, I'll take that then.
Them: Would you like ketchup, cheese, bacon, or lettuce with that?
Me: Ok
......Later when the bill comes....
Me: What?? Why are you charging me $13 for a food you said was $10?
Them: Oh, the cheese and bacon and ketchup (and whatever extra thing they neglect to mention) were extra.
Me: -Not in a happy mood-
Why do so many restaurants always talk about extra stuff acting like it's a free and included in the price when it's an extra cost? Very few restaurants say this: "Would you like to add this extra thing for only a $1 like at my local McDonalds?"
I remember another restaurant where they completely messed up an order. They basically said, "Oh, we're sorry we completely messed up your order, would you like an ice cream?" - waitress acting like she's giving the ice cream for free because of the mess up. Bill comes later.....$5 Ice Cream.
Why aren't more restaurants more upfront about things that are included in the price or things that are extra? When the bill comes up they even look surprised I mentioned it. It's like they think I can't add or something.
I have to admit I find that practice HIGHLY annoying as well. This is one area where the chain restaurants actually have the local places beat, they usually don't charge extra for every little thing, and when they do it's made very clear. When I ask for more guacamole at Chilis they make a point of telling you up front it's an extra $1.
The local places play these B.S. games, hoping people don't pay attention to the bill. And they must talk to each other since the practice seems to have increased drastically in the past 8-12 months. Whenever I get scammed by a server I just deduct it off their tip, so it's really no skin off my teeth. One of my friends just at a local place here in Jax (can't recall the name) and got a $1 charge on the bill for ice water. Sheesh.
I know one of the oriental places in the food court of the Jacksonville landing has a big sign for Teryaki Chicken for $4.89. If you say you want that special, they ask you "white rice or fried rice?" If you say fried rice, they charge you extra but you don't know until they give you the total.
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on September 08, 2010, 02:17:39 PM
One of my friends just at a local place here in Jax (can't recall the name) and got a $1 charge on the bill for ice water. Sheesh.
Not sure of this is the local place you can't recall, but I have been charged a dollar for ice water at Cool Moose before.
Really, you thought the bacon was free? Being charged extra for ketchup is wrong, I agree, because it's a condiment. But, if you really thought the bacon was free, you were kidding yourself. You should assume that anything extra comes at a price; it'll save you alot of heartburn. It's not hidden if you're the one covering your eyes.
Ice cream issue was wrong. You don't charge the guest when you're making up for your own mistakes.
$1 for ice water is just criminal though.
Quote from: RockStar on September 08, 2010, 08:05:12 PM
Really, you thought the bacon was free? Being charged extra for ketchup is wrong, I agree, because it's a condiment. But, if you really thought the bacon was free, you were kidding yourself. You should assume that anything extra comes at a price; it'll save you alot of heartburn. It's not hidden if you're the one covering your eyes.
Ice cream issue was wrong. You don't charge the guest when you're making up for your own mistakes.
$1 for ice water is just criminal though.
I'm curious, how am I suppose to know bacon was an extra charge when they casually and so friendly said it next to ketchup to which "Being charged extra.......is wrong"?
To me, this practice opens up a giant can of worms. What is included in the price and what isn't? I just don't know anymore when the server is keeping his mouth shut about the cost extra stuff. I mean, if McDonald's can do it, why can't a sit down restaurant which I'm paying 2x to 50x the price do it?
Quote from: Lucasjj on September 08, 2010, 04:06:34 PM
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on September 08, 2010, 02:17:39 PM
One of my friends just at a local place here in Jax (can't recall the name) and got a $1 charge on the bill for ice water. Sheesh.
Not sure of this is the local place you can't recall, but I have been charged a dollar for ice water at Cool Moose before.
Ha I do think that was it. And boy have I got a story that beats that one...
So I go to cool moose and order a bagel & lox for breakfast. Out comes a semi-stale bagel with two tiny little slivers of salmon on each half, that were so small they only covered up maybe 1/4 of the bagel when laying fully flat. And this was for $6 or whatever they charge for it.
I asked the waitress if she bring me my bagel & lox with some salmon on it this time. So she goes in the back, and I hear some rude-sounding muffled yelling and then she comes back visibly irritated (but not with me) and says the owner is in the kitchen and refused to put anymore on, and that he claimed each portion was weighed. I responded "did he have to borrow someone's cocaine scale to weigh this?" and she said I could buy more salmon for $2 extra.
I paid the bill, wrote a note explaining that I'd been going to the Moose for 8 years and wouldn't be back and I hoped the $2 was worth it. And true to my word, I haven't been back since, and never will. The whole thing was so ridiculous I actually took a pic on my iphone and asked my friend who owned a restaurant if I was out of line and he couldn't believe it.
The universal laws of hamburger pricing in non-fast food restaurants, as I've experienced them:
Ketchup, mustard, mayo, sriracha, A1, Tabasco, lettuce, tomato, onion, pickles, jalapenos, banana peppers = always free
Cheese, bacon, guacamole, chili, prosciutto, fried mozzarella sticks = never free
YMMV, but I can't recall ever being charged for ketchup, or getting free bacon.
Quote from: Brian Siebenschuh on September 08, 2010, 09:22:16 PM
The universal laws of hamburger pricing in non-fast food restaurants, as I've experienced them:
Ketchup, mustard, mayo, sriracha, A1, Tabasco, lettuce, tomato, onion, pickles, jalapenos, banana peppers = always free
Cheese, bacon, guacamole, chili, prosciutto, fried mozzarella sticks = never free
YMMV, but I can't recall ever being charged for ketchup, or getting free bacon.
I don't have a problem with getting charged extra as long as they make an effort trying to mention it and being transparent about it. The problem I have is when they do this:
Would you like "Ketchup, mustard, bacon, mayo, sriracha, A1, Tabasco, Cheese, lettuce, tomato, onion, pickles, jalapenos, guacamole, banana peppers" on top of your burger?
Basically, mixing up the free stuff and the "extra charge" items acting like they all are free and included with your meal.
Quote from: Brian Siebenschuh on September 08, 2010, 09:22:16 PM
The universal laws of hamburger pricing in non-fast food restaurants, as I've experienced them:
Ketchup, mustard, mayo, sriracha, A1, Tabasco, lettuce, tomato, onion, pickles, jalapenos, banana peppers = always free
Cheese, bacon, guacamole, chili, prosciutto, fried mozzarella sticks = never free
YMMV, but I can't recall ever being charged for ketchup, or getting free bacon.
Cheese mushrooms and bacon are a mixed bag, some places don't charge anything for them, others do. Most places seem to make different burgers with these items to take the confusion out of the menu. Most restaurants will have a burger, a cheeseburger, and a bacon cheeseburger, listed separately. Other places (5 Guys as an example) just have one burger with a million sides, all free, including all of the above. It just depends, I guess.
But still I agree with the original point, I'm sick of sneaky B.S. where the servers act like something's included but it's not, or structuring the orders in the most expensive way possible (that's another pet peeve of mine). I find the routine cityimrov described to be pretty commonplace, it goes well beyond the common "upsell" and is dishonest. I also find it irritating when they game the menu so that your check is as expensive as possible. Like when you ask for a side salad and then later order an entree that comes with the salad, but still get charged for the salad anyway.
The Brick is especially annoying about this latter problem, it's nuts when you order a drink their bartender doesn't know how to make, they just ring up all the ingredients separately. So I wound up being charged $12 for a grand marnier and $12 for a courvoisier, even though it's certainly not my fault their bartender didn't know what a french connection was, and I only got half of a pour of each. $24 for a single drink, sheesh.
Quote from: cityimrov on September 08, 2010, 08:33:56 PM
Quote from: RockStar on September 08, 2010, 08:05:12 PM
Really, you thought the bacon was free? Being charged extra for ketchup is wrong, I agree, because it's a condiment. But, if you really thought the bacon was free, you were kidding yourself. You should assume that anything extra comes at a price; it'll save you alot of heartburn. It's not hidden if you're the one covering your eyes.
Ice cream issue was wrong. You don't charge the guest when you're making up for your own mistakes.
$1 for ice water is just criminal though.
I'm curious, how am I suppose to know bacon was an extra charge when they casually and so friendly said it next to ketchup to which "Being charged extra.......is wrong"?
To me, this practice opens up a giant can of worms. What is included in the price and what isn't? I just don't know anymore when the server is keeping his mouth shut about the cost extra stuff. I mean, if McDonald's can do it, why can't a sit down restaurant which I'm paying 2x to 50x the price do it?
You're curious? Then ask. Don't assume, probe. Yes charging for ketchup wrong, as I said, it's a condiment. Bacon is not. If you're not sure, ask. Or conversely, you could just expect to pay extra for everything, then on the occasion you aren't, how happily surprised you'll be. <looking at bill> Oooh they give you free bacon here?! How nice! ;D
ChrisUF...French Connection...what a great drink...in Vegas it's called a Beautiful...I've won (and lost) so much money drinking those...
Quote$1 for ice water is just criminal though.
Not if the water has first been filtered and passed by the management!
The can of worms this opens is gigantic. What is wrong with transparency? What is wrong with telling your customer how much things cost when you offer them? What is so wrong with just doing that?
Should I assume anything that comes out of the mouth of the server has an extra cost? If that's the case, then that means I can no longer trust any word he says - that this guy will be just be the same level as the local used car salesmen.
If the server brings bread to the table should I assume it's free or is he charging extra? If the server takes up the empty plate is that included in my meal price or not? When a server asks for lettuce for my burger, is that extra? When he asks how to cook my burger should I assume that the longer cooking time cost more? Is well-done $1 more then medium? Is the base price rare then they charge extra to cook it longer? When my salad comes and the server offers dressing, is that dressing free or not free? When the server comes with the pepper shaker, can I assume he's selling me pepper or is it included in the price? When the server offers me crackers with my soup is that free? Is this soup he offered me with my fancy meal even included in the meal price? Hey, am I being charged each time the sever even comes to my table? Am I being charged for sitting down? I just don't know anymore nor does anyone in the restaurant feel like they want to tell me until the bill comes. Unfortunately, I failed my mind reading class so I don't know how to do that either.
As much as I love to say I'm exaggerating this stuff, there are restaurants out there that charge for anything including a fee just to sit down and read the menu! Yes, some places do charge for ketchup and they don't even mention they charge for it!! I can't remember the name of this one but it was some restaurant in some fancy touristy area somewhere.
Do I really have to place restaurants now in the same category I place AT&T, Comcast, American Airlines, Bank of America, Wachovia, Sirius Radio and Wally World Used Cars? Places which magically add things like "government recovery fee" or "mandatory state dealership fee" or how about the "$1000 Required Tax for Batteries & Tire & Setup Fee"?
QuoteIf the server brings bread to the table should I assume it's free or is he charging extra? If the server takes up the empty plate is that included in my meal price or not? When a server asks for lettuce for my burger, is that extra? When he asks how to cook my burger should I assume that the longer cooking time cost more? Is well-done $1 more then medium? Is the base price rare then they charge extra to cook it longer? When my salad comes and the server offers dressing, is that dressing free or not free? When the server comes with the pepper shaker, can I assume he's selling me pepper or is it included in the price? When the server offers me crackers with my soup is that free? Is this soup he offered me with my fancy meal even included in the meal price? Hey, am I being charged each time the sever even comes to my table? Am I being charged for sitting down? I just don't know anymore nor does anyone in the restaurant feel like they want to tell me until the bill comes. Unfortunately, I failed my mind reading class so I don't know how to do that either.
As much as I love to say I'm exaggerating this stuff, there are restaurants out there that charge for anything including a fee just to sit down and read the menu! Yes, some places do charge for ketchup and they don't even mention they charge for it!! I can't remember the name of this one but it was some restaurant in some fancy touristy area somewhere.
Throw out some names. This thread is useless without them.
Quote from: Brian Siebenschuh on September 09, 2010, 05:48:30 AM
Throw out some names. This thread is useless without them.
... but he'll have to charge you extra for that ... :D
Quote from: RockStar on September 09, 2010, 12:44:17 AM
Quote from: cityimrov on September 08, 2010, 08:33:56 PM
Quote from: RockStar on September 08, 2010, 08:05:12 PM
Really, you thought the bacon was free? Being charged extra for ketchup is wrong, I agree, because it's a condiment. But, if you really thought the bacon was free, you were kidding yourself. You should assume that anything extra comes at a price; it'll save you alot of heartburn. It's not hidden if you're the one covering your eyes.
Ice cream issue was wrong. You don't charge the guest when you're making up for your own mistakes.
$1 for ice water is just criminal though.
I'm curious, how am I suppose to know bacon was an extra charge when they casually and so friendly said it next to ketchup to which "Being charged extra.......is wrong"?
To me, this practice opens up a giant can of worms. What is included in the price and what isn't? I just don't know anymore when the server is keeping his mouth shut about the cost extra stuff. I mean, if McDonald's can do it, why can't a sit down restaurant which I'm paying 2x to 50x the price do it?
You're curious? Then ask. Don't assume, probe. Yes charging for ketchup wrong, as I said, it's a condiment. Bacon is not. If you're not sure, ask. Or conversely, you could just expect to pay extra for everything, then on the occasion you aren't, how happily surprised you'll be. <looking at bill> Oooh they give you free bacon here?! How nice! ;D
ChrisUF...French Connection...what a great drink...in Vegas it's called a Beautiful...I've won (and lost) so much money drinking those...
Yeah I love FC's. They are especially awesome with a cigar. That is why I was always getting them at the Brick, they have that outdoors seating. But after I kept getting charged like $24 for one drink because they didn't know what it was, I asked for the manager and they came out and explained to me that their bar is run on computer terminals like most restaurants' menu items are, and the problem is that the drink probably wasn't in the computer so they had to ring it in as two separate drinks.
I said that was ridiculous, as I was only getting one drink that had two ingredients, I wasn't actually getting two separate sets of pours! No matter how you cut that one, I was getting double-charged. The response was basically "tough luck". So after that I started demanding that the two drinks be brought separately along with an empty brandy snifter and a separate cup of ice. Then I'd just mix them all up myself at the table. I didn't mind the $24 price tag after that because I found I was getting like 3 or 4 of the original size french connections when I made them bring all the stuff separately. Which shows you they'd been under-pouring to begin with.
About the menu stuff, I don't think the customer should need a crystal ball when it comes to pricing. The prices for everything shouldn't be rigged. There's really nothing honorable about tricking people into thinking something's free and then charging for it. Sure some may not notice, but many will, and systemic dishonesty like that is offensive enough to most folks that the damage done exceeds the extra $3 or whatever they got out of you.
Yeah you know, I think it's the economy, but some of the local restaurants are just getting absurd with nickel & diming you. Here's what I was talking about earlier with Cool Moose, which is a perfect example, tell me if you ordered a bagel & lox plate whether you'd have been ok with this pathetic nonsense...
(http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk137/chriswufgator/b631a9e1.jpg)
For comparison, this is another restaurant I eat breakfast at regularly. This bagel & lox is the same price;
(http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk137/chriswufgator/b2ca85fe.jpg)
I'm sick of what's happening, it seems like every time I turn around there's some silly B.S. game going on, and someone trying to shortchange me. I don't even normally pay much attention to checks, so if I notice all this stuff I can't imagine how much goes on that I don't notice. And the attitudes in customer service industries have gotten downright ridiculous, people have started acting like they're doing you a favor by taking your money. It wasn't always this way, things went downhill rapidly in the last year or so.
I can't imagine what possesses someone to serve that pathetic crap, and then demand an extra $2 to put more salmon on it? Not to mention the owner being rude to his own employees. It's ridiculous. Cool Moose has certainly lost this customer, permanently. The Chicago Pizza shenanigans are another example of what I'm talking about. Just total nonsense, and nothing more than a scam to get paid without doing anything for the money.
It's getting to where Black's Law Dictionary is going to have to include a picture of a restaurant next to "Unjust Enrichment." I have had such an extensive rash of experiences where I've paid $100 to be treated rudely and given crappy food that I've taken up cooking dinners at home. Which believe it or not doesn't actually save any money, thanks to Publix prices, but the convenience factor of not having to deal with cooking or dishes has become outweighed by not having to deal with bad service, rude attitudes, and crappy food, followed by an argument over the bill. Eating at home has actually become more convenient, since I'm not nickel & dimed, treated rudely, and hassled.
QuoteAnd the attitudes in customer service industries have gotten downright ridiculous, people have started acting like they're doing you a favor by taking your money. It wasn't always this way, things went downhill rapidly in the last year or so.
I fully agree!!!
I had this thought the other day. It seems like I am more dissapointed every time I try someplace new. Is it just that things are getting bad everywhere, or am I behaving like a critic/food reviewer every new place I go because I have been watching too much food network and Gordon Ramsay??
Are we all becoming too critical??
Just a thought.
QuoteAre we all becoming too critical??
NO!
This is most definately a trend. I eat out quite a bit(more than I should) and overall service has been going way downhill for the past year and a half. I really like trying new places, but lately I've been staying at places that have consistently treated me right.
I grew up working in my mom's restaurants... and as you could expect, I either befriended or dated a lot of people within the industry. For a very long time, I was overly patient and too polite b/c I knew of the perils of the business. But lately, it has become a noticeably disturbing trend... and although if I was ever impolite to anyone, my mother would reach over zip codes to smack me on the backside of my head, I certainly am making a concerted effort to speak out to management when abhorent service warrants it.
While we're at it let's list a glass full of ice with a splash of drink.
Quote from: danno on September 09, 2010, 02:06:49 PM
I had this thought the other day. It seems like I am more dissapointed every time I try someplace new. Is it just that things are getting bad everywhere, or am I behaving like a critic/food reviewer every new place I go because I have been watching too much food network and Gordon Ramsay??
Are we all becoming too critical??
Just a thought.
Nah, it's not people being too critical, it's that in a tightening economy, the service industry has lost all respect for the customer and has begun viewing us all as nothing more than walking cash registers. I also know it's not just me, because everybody else is noticing the same stuff at the same time, and because there are still places that do treat me right, and that's where I go. There are just a growing number that don't.