QuoteBy LIZ FLAISIG,
The Times-Union
Redevelopment requires a careful balance of public and private investment.
The Jacksonville Transportation Authority has begun testing that balance on Kings Avenue as it considers buying recently redeveloped private property for a possible Bus Rapid Transit station.
Property owners on Kings Avenue near its intersection with Prudential Drive have been contacted regarding their willingness to sell, JTA spokesman Mike Miller confirmed.
If purchased, the land could eventually be used for a station to connect Bus Rapid Transit riders to the Skyway, trolleys and city buses going into downtown, Riverside and LaVilla.
The JTA has $100 million for right-of-way acquisition from the Better Jacksonville Plan, which could be parlayed into $400 million with state and federal matches, Miller said.
The properties JTA is looking at sit just north of its garage and its first transit-oriented development, Kings Avenue Station, which will include two hotels, restaurant, retail and office space.
Ervin Lovett & Miller architects and planners are among the businesses not interested in selling their property.
The firm chose San Marco for its relocation from Belfort Parkway after considering other areas. San Marco's neighborhood atmosphere, restaurants and shops offered benefits for both employees and customers, said Steve Lovett, partner.
In late 2004, the firm paid $300,000 for the circa 1948 building.
After investing more than $600,000, the building gained a second floor and large glass windows in place of huge garage doors as part of its transformation.
A second-story veranda serves as a Friday afternoon social spot for employees and clients and open-air meeting room during the week.
"We hope it's much ado about nothing," Lovett said. "We made an investment here. We like this location and we're proud of where our office is."
Nearby business owner Josh Cady moved his photography studio from Mandarin to Kings Avenue last year after spending $1.1 million on a building and $350,000 on refurbishment.
In addition to the neighborhood, Cady wanted a more central location and one nearer to the School Board and clients who come from Georgia, Flagler County and Northeast Florida.
Cady & Cady Studios serves more than 50,000 customers annually, with 10,000 people coming to his office.
Cady characterized the inquiry from a man representing JTA as lacking professionalism, "inappropriate" and "abrasive."
"He said 'You might want to talk to us now about selling because you could set your own price, vs. being affected by eminent domain,'" Cady said.
The potential for JTA to use eminent domain to purchase land from unwilling sellers remains, though Miller said it's not in the plan now.
"We have no plans at this time to take anybody's property who would not be willing sellers," Miller said.
As for the tone and phrasing of the conversation, Miller said it was difficult to comment without knowing if the caller was a JTA employee. Regardless, JTA holds cooperative, nonthreatening conversations with landowners and moves on if it's told someone doesn't want to sell, Miller said.
Although Jacksonville Economic Development Commission Executive Director Ron Barton was unaware of the discussions, he understood both JTA's planning needs and property owners' concerns.
A transportation system, including Bus Rapid Transit, is critical to downtown's future, Barton said.
So planning must occur.
But Barton sees that as a "balancing act" between government and private interests.
The city should be "super sensitive" to those taking business risks in redeveloping areas such as Kings Avenue.
"We have to be really careful about how the actual transit system interfaces with private development," Barton said.
He pointed to past transit decisions, specifically the Skyway, as producing "mixed results" and affecting redevelopment opportunities.
"I think [JTA] is sensitive to that," Barton said. "I'm not familiar with the conversations but I think they're just trying to explore what their options might be."
liz.flaisig@jacksonville.com,
(904) 359-4640
Interesting. This is another negative of BRT. Bus stations require more space than rail does, so integration in urban pedestrian friendly areas, such as the revitalizing King/Hendricks corridor is more difficult to achieve with BRT.
The conversation with Cady & Cady Studios also shows the lack of planning and respect between government agencies and the general public. These types of things should have been discussed years ago before a mode of transit was even chosen. Now Cady & Cady is in a situation of either sell to JTA for their buses or risk eminent domain, unless someone can poison BRT's drinking water.
Why wouldn't the JTA use the Kings Ave Station site as the BRT terminus? Why is more land necessary? All they need to do is run the BRT down the frontage road (Onyx Street) and then loop around the buisnesses and run back up Hendricks.
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y74/asonj23/Google%20Earth%20Snapshots/KingsAve.Skyway.jpg)
Good point. In that aerial, there's also a large vacant lot just north of I-95 and the land under I-95, itself. If integration was the goal, then an urban solution, instead of acquiring more land, could be found.
Right, the lot right in front of the station could be configured into a drop-off circle where the busses/trains could just wrap the circle and exit the same way they came in.
(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/SanMarco.png)
The whole damn thing is bass-ackward! WHY did JTA decide to build the stupid station on the wrong side of the freeway? We spend 200 Million dollars and they quit because they have no vision? What about if the freeway bridges (built to pass over the old shipyard and rail yard) are finally taken down to size? Gee, a Skyway overpass, would be of great value then... Not to mention the PR we would get from the "Disney effect" of seeing the monorail pass over I-95.
Secondly, the hotel's are where? South of the Freeway? Duh, JTA? is that Transit Oriented or do we call that ESOD "Elevated Sidewalk Oriented Development?" How about PGOD for "Parking Garage Oriented Development?" I can't believe these people. Look at that photo. There is a clear (former Railroad) right of way South of the garage right onto the FEC, hence Arcadia street right to the gut of San Marco. Wasn't it the railroad that stopped the glorified potato-chip truck thinks-its-a-trolley, from serving San Marco? So will we need a completely elevated BRT route here? Oh you bet we will. I'm sure this thing will have to be built to justify the insane lack of planning on the original Skyway. You can just hear them now, a million dollar study on: "how does the bus cross the tracks," and a 500 dollar study on "We could have done rail but it was too expensive" or the alternate "101 reasons we can't do the Skyway right the first time."
JTA? You know the drill, pull your heads out.
Ocklawaha
I think this is terrible. That area contains some of the coolest new developments on the Southbank. Those few buildings are all very unique and very nice. It would be an absolute shame to see all of their hard work be destroyed for the bus system that is going to fail.
The BRT plans I saw had the SE corridor line running parallel to FEC's tracks on the east side, with no stop at Atlantic Blvd, so there will still be no direct connection with San Marco Square and the new Publix center. The more and more stuff that comes out on this thing, the more it looks like these guys really don't have a clue.
1. Kings Avenue Station is not a TOD, it just happens to be a hotel development next to a parking garage that JTA owns.
2. There's no need to destroy these businesses for a transit stop that JTA does not even know how big it would have to be because it hasn't been designed yet. There's plenty of land available under I-95 (currently a parking lot) and the vacant lot just to the north. This thing could easily be designed to save those businesses with a little political will.
3. As this thing goes on, they'll be several more places they'll attempt to buy up that will leave you scratching your head.
The JTA (through an out-of-house Real Estate Consultant from Orlando) was not gracious in their approach to us. I'm sure the approach to our neighbors, Cady & Cady, was similar. The initial outreach from JTA was abrasive and unprofessional, and the whole idea of it was (and is) distasteful to us. We invited the fellow from Orlando representing JTA to come to our office, and we were not impressed with his introduction on JTA's behalf, or his familiarity with our building or others nearby. We have passed that input along to JTA, and I believe they are aware that their inquiry was not well-handled.
We have helped to create positive momentum in this neighborhood with our building improvements (as have Cady & Cady, Burdette Ketchum, Linda Cunningham, and others), and we found the possibility of JTA condemning and tearing apart an emerging district ignorant and contradictory to good policy. But, we understand their need to understand their options and don't fault them for asking the question. I only hope their evaluation process ultimately considers strongly good existing urban development.
Following JTA's initial inquiry, we expressed our concerns at a public meeting hosted by Councilwoman Johnson a month or more ago. At that meeting, Mike Miller of JTA told us that they do not intend to take our property - period. We've heard the same in subsequent meetings and conversations since then. If their word is good there should be no issue.
Land adjacent to the garage (between the garage and Kings Avenue) is spoken for, and construction is moving forward on two hotels as part of the Kings Avenue Station project. Tree removal/relocation and initial site preparation is presently underway. Once complete, this will continue the positive momentum down Kings Avenue. JTA has other land nearby which, as I understand, is under study as a possible Bus/Skyway station point.
Steve Lovett
Partner
Ervin Lovett & Miller
QuoteCady characterized the inquiry from a man representing JTA as lacking professionalism, "inappropriate" and "abrasive."
This quote actually perfectly describes most of the JTA people I have met. I would also throw in stupid, bullheaded and visionless. JTA has this slash and burn mentality when it comes to the locals they are supposed to serve. I just wonder why they are so arrogant given their stunning lack of success with mass transit in the past? ???
Quote from: STL on September 20, 2007, 03:57:51 PMBut, we understand their need to understand their options and don't fault them for asking the question. I only hope their evaluation process ultimately considers strongly good existing urban development.
I can understand having and exploring options, but given that all of these buildings have been renovated, considering destroying them for a transit station should not be an option at all given the amount of land already owned by JTA in the vicinity and the need for this albatross to be as close to destination generators as possible. You'll struggle for riders with a system that drops people off in the middle of parking lots, as opposed to destinations.
Forward thinking has not been apart of this process and its a shame because one of the buildings they're looking at houses an architectural and planning firm.....the same firm designing the TAD project on the other side of I-95. Give the professionals a call and discuss station designs/layouts that don't require addition by subtraction. Doing such would get them futher, then sending a goon from Orlando who is not even familiar with the area.
It seemed obvious that the fellow from Orlando was coming with only a highlighted property owners map and a list of addresses and phone numbers. He was unprepared to speak to the particulars of the location and was unaware of recent building improvements in the neighborhood.
As a real estate guy, he was also probably clueless on the "eminent domain" comments. Perhaps not even realizing the evils of which he spoke. Many people today have a Jessie James mentality on that question. If Maw don't sell that back 40 to the BRT then we'll just blast our way across for the greater public good. In the end everyone will see how right we were and praise us for our great business savvy... So it goes, that these people forgot the hell that was paid by the Rock Island Lines, for messing with and manhandling the James family farm. These things go deep with me, after all, my great grandfather rode with the "boys" from Missouri.
The Skyway ending behind the business block and short of the new hotel development or garage shows just how far the JTA head has descended into the nether regions. The plan for BRT on the East side of the railroad, demonstrates a continued lack of understanding of passenger destination. People don't go from the Southbank office towers and condos to Phillips Highway. With the exception of Wal-Mart, the North end of Phillips is too dead to bury, dangerous and blighted. Even with much needed investment, it will be years before this becomes a magnet for transit patrons materializes there, meanwhile, the BRT plan bi-passes San Marco, San Jose, Saint Nicholas, Hogans and every other major gathering spot on the South or East side. Another reason for blowing a freeway to create a giant dividing seam through territory so a few more buses per hour can burble past. Riverside Gator has it right, I call it STUPID!
Where are the plans to get passengers across the FEC? How is the BRT going to save the San Marco or San Jose commuters? These people haven't proved anything with their last great project, failing to get anywhere near their confident predictions of 10,000 passengers a day on the horizontal elevator. Now it is obvious, they have quit on the Skyway, and want us to "Trust" in them for a new and improved system. If Jacksonville doesn't fire these folks from running our transit system, our City deserves what we get.
Stupid is as JTA does...
Ocklawaha
This is totally insane. They are looking to tear down buildings next to a transit stop to build another transit stop. Is the current transit stop so overcrowded with people they must expand it? Obviously not.
QuoteThe JTA has $100 million for right-of-way acquisition from the Better Jacksonville Plan, which could be parlayed into $400 million with state and federal matches, Miller said.
If this is true, this project really needs to be taken over by someone else. Imagine what we could do TODAY with $400 million to improve transit in Jacksonville?
$400 million would be nearly enough to build the entire system proposed by MetroJacksonville!!!
Ever hear the term "The Silver Rails?*" We could darn near build the system with Silver Rails for $400.00 million.
Ocklawaha
*Silver Rails, is slang for a well used railroad with a silver shine on the top of each rail. However, there is history to that slang. The Virginia and Truckee RR in Nevada, and the various narrow gauge roads that once served the high Sangre de Cristo and San Juan ranges of Colorado, had rails rolled with some local iron ore, in both cases the rails were really laced with traces of pure silver. TRUTH!
All I can say is that more and more that I read about JTA and how they operate, the more I see a taxpayer funded authority that has absolutely no forward planning skills. JTA cant see any further than the front windows on one of their decrepit, death-trap, smog-spewing, Clinton era buses.. (Maybe they could see a little better if they peeled Kieth Pierson off every damn thing they own ;D )
What a waste of money.. the JTA executive positions should be elected by citizens and have term limits.
Detroit: It's not a waste of money if you waste the money! It's a waste of money if you don't waste the money. And don't not think that the JTA doesn't not want to not waste. That's JTA 101. (Did I get it right Ock.?)
Right on Friend Gatorback!
Ocklawaha
I just want to give the JTA the recognition they deserve. Pronounced "wreck" -cognition.
I was in the FTA statistics website last night until about 1 am. Ooooh the Wreck that become apparent in those numbers isn't pretty. Cool stuff like 1.3% of Jax commuters use the bus! Almost as many paddle a canoe to work. Ridership has grown, but not kept pace with Metro Growth which results in a net FALL in ridership. The only real gains have been in quick expansion of routes. In passenger miles or vehicle miles JTA falls so far behind Charlotte, Portland, and other city's that we couldn't find them on radar. Ugly indeed.
Ocklawaha
You would have never guessed that by looking at the jta website. I would say how horrible their website is, but I can’t because the site does exactly what the JTA does. Hide in the minutia they create.
Although according to the article in the TU last week Ron Barton claims the JTA is only exploring their options for a transit station, it's interesting that this is on the TU website.
The Jacksonville Transportation Authority said last week it is considering purchasing private property on Kings Avenue near Prudential Drive with the intent of establishing a possible Bus Rapid Transit station. The Times-Union asked residen
By ANGELA BUSSONE -- The Times-Union (The online article is messed up.)
and under this headline is the following:
WE WANT YOUR OPINION
What do you think about a possible transit station on Kings Avenue? Go to Business Talkback at Jacksonville.com/business to weigh in.
~~~
Hmmm...... I wonder what all this means?