The Power of Urban Design: A Gas Station Transformed
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/970753823_Gi68A-M.jpg)
A gas station proposal for downtown tranforms right in front of Metro Jacksonville's eyes. Is anyone paying attention?
Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2010-aug-the-power-of-urban-design-a-gas-station-transformed
Paying attention, no not for a gas station.
no they arent
I am paying attention and I would use it... If their prices weren't 10-20 cents more than every other place in the core and I am not gonna get panhandled everytime I get gas.
so wait...you want better design (which sometimes costs a little more)....but you're not willing to pay a tad extra for it?
whats up with the fence?
Where on Main St. would this be anyway? On the opposite side of the street from the Shell station that's on Main and Union across from BOA?
yes
lol First Baptist attendees are gonna be mad about that. I always see people flooding that lot on Sundays going to church.
Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on August 17, 2010, 07:35:15 AM
Paying attention, no not for a gas station.
I am. Most times the fabric of necessities in a neighborhood tend to make it more liveable, usable and attractive to businesses than the next grandiose project. If you want to put your call center, Law office or temp service downtown cafes and service stations will help you everyday more so than the new boutique hotel or theme upscale restaurant.(I want those too!)
The Hell station is already on Union and Main, and it's infested with bums. They've got a lot of nerve, asking for money when gas costs as much as it does! Put the gas station in another part of downtown. And as far as the Baptists meeting up before church, they have 13 city blocks of buildings to do whatever they want. So, First Baptist, get your self rightous, self serving, classist, money grubbing, power grabbing hands out the rest of downtown affairs!!! Separation of church and state!!! And I hope that hotel does get a makeover too. It would be a nice quaint place for a traveler to rest up for the night. As longs as we can keep the bums contained.
wow urbanknight! show some love for FBC why dont you. I doubt the church members would be upset about not being able to park there. I love how the urban gas station thread turns into to someone going off over FBC. I happen to go to church there and would welcome a nice gas station to fill up or get a coke after church. Tried the Shell station once!!! never again, at least going inside to buy anything.
lol urbanknight. I personally don't have a problem with FBC other than how they've been allowed to spawn all over downtown. It's beyond me why a city would allow any church to occupy so much space in a downtown area. I don't really think you can talk about downtown and new development without bringing them into the conversation because no matter where you build, some property they own will be nearby. As far as the gas station goes, yeah it would have been nice to have it in another area downtown if possible. Maybe Bay or Forsyth if there was any available lots. The Shell station is what it is. I'm not there to hang out or socialize, so I don't have a problem getting out to get gas or even running inside when I absolutely have to. Maybe you need to practice your 'mean' face fsujax.
Quote from: urbaknight on August 17, 2010, 11:01:23 AM
The Hell station is already on Union and Main, and it's infested with bums. They've got a lot of nerve, asking for money when gas costs as much as it does! Put the gas station in another part of downtown.
Perhaps a little competition would breed better service, experience and prices.
Quote from: comncense on August 17, 2010, 12:06:40 PM
I personally don't have a problem with FBC other than how they've been allowed to spawn all over downtown. It's beyond me why a city would allow any church to occupy so much space in a downtown area.
ok...that is ridiculous...possibly worse than the folks opposed to the proposed Muslim center in NYC.
A religious institution has just as much right to own land as anyone else...and, in fact, they are pretty much allowed in all land use categories in Florida....something about that "freedom of religion" thing in the Constitution
nice one TUFSU.....linking a mosque and FBC together! very clever!!!haha all the FBC haters just need to move on. The church isnt going anywhere so get over it!
I never said FBC doesn't have a "right" to build where they have built. I just think it wasn't a wise decision as far as city planning goes. Freedom of religion has nothing to do with that, but nice try.
How this turn into to a debate about first baptist church? We are talking about a GAS STATION. geez. We can never talk about anything positive, without a bunch of negativity.
How many "Gas Stations" does downtown need? This allmost looks like a Gate design to me!
well right now there is only 1 in the core...with another 2 on the fringe.
Quote from: comncense on August 17, 2010, 02:36:46 PM
I never said FBC doesn't have a "right" to build where they have built. I just think it wasn't a wise decision as far as city planning goes. Freedom of religion has nothing to do with that, but nice try.
here's what you said,
"It's beyond me why a city would allow any church to occupy so much space in a downtown area"
As I noted earlier, religious institutions are allowed in just aboutr every land use district....if they were restricted, folks could challenge based on freedcom of religion...this has happened in many places throughout the U.S. and the religious institution almost always wins.
So did I misunderstand something?
The way to control any development, religious or otherwise, is through smart zoning and land use regulations and their consistent and fair enforcement and application.
The problem isn't the religious organization, it's the USE of the land. Is the USE appropriate and consistent with the area it is being created in?
Unfortunately, it seems religious organizations often aren't discriminated "against" but "for": They get permitted exceptions when others don't because politicos don't want to take them on and possibly lose voters.
I was once told by a City zoning administrator that the model zoning codes never anticipated the explosive replication of mega-churches and, thus, there are few rules limiting where they can build and how big. In fact, the context of our conversation was the desire of a church to create a mega-church in the heart of a low density residential area, about one mile from any major thoroughfare or commercial area.Quote from: CS Foltz on August 17, 2010, 04:24:44 PM
This allmost looks like a Gate design to me!
CS, exactly my thought. It is a Gate design with just a different architectural treatment and shape to the "anchor" building/convenience store. I also noticed that with this design, they were able to grow from four to six the number of fuel pumps and enlarge the building substantially. That can't be bad for business. ;)
stjr...............I can see how it can be expanded beyond an original footprint! Just not totally sure how this store can be a benefit for the core area or an enhancement! Maybe its just me, but a gas station/convenience store seems out of sorts for that area! It is a start of some kind of infrastructure and the core will need all the help it can get..............just unsure about this!
Its a benefit in this manner:
1. Another vacant low revenue producing property goes away.
2. Another surface lot disappears.
3. This is one more additional use that could potentially link Springfield and downtown together.
4. A use that is needed (a decent gas station) is introduced to the urban core.
5. Existing sidewalk conditions are being improved. Don't discount the benefit of having another dining option with outdoor seating lining a major corner in downtown.
6. Although small, this process stands as a visual example of what good urban design can accomplish in the urban core. Imagine if we were able to work with all projects in manner to were they improve the pedestrian experience along their borders? Even if a street were lined with 10 gas stations featuring sidewalk dining cafes, limited curb cuts and good landscaping, it would be a 1000 times better than what we have today.
lake............transiting through that area on a regular basis and knowing what is there............I can not dispute anyone of your 6 points! You could also add a seventh............addition to the tax roll! But there is allready a "Gas Station" in the general area..............Shell is right around the corner is it not? Unless I am mistaken as the the proposed location! Sidewalks, not withstanding, what is planned for the "Corner Residents"? Will there be an increase in JSO driveby's? What about the Street Lights? Will they be maintaining or will the City? I seem to remember something about Alley streetlights not being replaced when burning out around there? I think there will be a bit more to this than just building a gas station!
St. Johns Town Center has a Dillards but no one would complain if Macys opened next door. State & Union already have a Winn-Dixie but no one would complain if Publix decided to locate in the area. I think most will agree that the shell is in pretty poor condition. Hopefully, a decent station nearby will encourage them to clean up their act.
QuoteUnless I am mistaken as the the proposed location! Sidewalks, not withstanding, what is planned for the "Corner Residents"? Will there be an increase in JSO driveby's? What about the Street Lights? Will they be maintaining or will the City? I seem to remember something about Alley streetlights not being replaced when burning out around there? I think there will be a bit more to this than just building a gas station!
I think good urban design can take care of this. A restaurant/cafe that wants to make a profit isn't going to put up with urban outdoorsmen hanging out at their front door and seating area, scaring away paying customers.
Won't argue about the "Shell" stations condition............urban outdoorsmen are something else though! I hope they have a plan to control that situation or they will have problems! May the best station win.....which translates into........ when will the Shell station clean up its act or close its doors?
As for panhandlers, I'm not hit up as much at the Schell. Anyway I always use a card at the pump. They don't bug you as much.
Speaking of panhandlers, Today in Springfield an old guy stumbled up with his beer tucked in brown bag and wanted money-honesty or stupidity?
Should be real interesting as to just how that Gas Station is going to control possible "Urban Outdoorsmen" visitation! Maybe they have a package deal with JSO for around the clock protection! Either way, good thing this is outside of the Springfield area or SPAR Council may get involved................unless you have their blessing............forgetaboutit! Think Carwash!
"whats up with the fence?"
a very cheap way to soften the streetscape.
Be cheaper to hire "Urban Outdoorsmen".........have them hold hands and stand where needed! Need a change in the look............have them turn around!
Quote from: fsujax on August 17, 2010, 01:55:29 PM
nice one TUFSU.....linking a mosque and FBC together! very clever!!!haha all the FBC haters just need to move on. The church isnt going anywhere so get over it!
FBC supporter?
not me coolyfett.
Quote from: comncense on August 17, 2010, 09:09:57 AM
lol First Baptist attendees are gonna be mad about that. I always see people flooding that lot on Sundays going to church.
let em use the Skyway
Quote from: comncense on August 17, 2010, 12:06:40 PM
lol urbanknight. I personally don't have a problem with FBC other than how they've been allowed to spawn all over downtown. It's beyond me why a city would allow any church to occupy so much space in a downtown area. I don't really think you can talk about downtown and new development without bringing them into the conversation because no matter where you build, some property they own will be nearby. As far as the gas station goes, yeah it would have been nice to have it in another area downtown if possible. Maybe Bay or Forsyth if there was any available lots. The Shell station is what it is. I'm not there to hang out or socialize, so I don't have a problem getting out to get gas or even running inside when I absolutely have to. Maybe you need to practice your 'mean' face fsujax.
Im sure the church got the land when the original owners sold it to them during white flight. Northbank still has plenty of spots the church does not own though.
What's the status of this gas station?
Yikes!!! Who else saw this today? This is terrible. All of the positive revisions and now this? Especially after the thread on here that showed all of the urban 7-Eleven pics. This proposal sounds like all of the urban features have been eliminated for more suburban crap. This must be stopped!
7-Eleven planned Downtown
12/05/2011
by Karen Brune Mathis, Managing Editor
The 7-Eleven Inc. chain of convenience stores plans to return to the Jacksonville market in 2012 and one of the first sites confirmed is Downtown.
Margaret Chabris, the Texas-based director of corporate communications, said Friday that the chain planned to open multiple stores in Northeast Florida and that one site is under review at State and Main streets.
“I can confirm that 7-Eleven Inc. is interested in a site in Downtown Jacksonville,†Chabris said in an email.
“We are in the due diligence phase, meaning we are seeking permits, licensing and other approvals,†she said.
The store is shown on site plans filed with the Downtown Development Review Board, which is scheduled to meet Thursday. Plans show a rendering for a 7-Eleven store at 9 E. Union St., where another gas and convenience store has been proposed.
The site is bordered by Union, Main and State streets.
The review board, part of the Jacksonville Economic Development Commission, is scheduled to consider amendments to the proposed “Bahri Gas and Convenience Store†along Union and Main streets.
The project received final approvals with conditions in August 2010 but has not been built.
On Thursday, the board will hear about the project again. Board documents show the site is under contract for sale to a new owner and amendments to the final plan are requested to meet the requirements of the new owner.
Site plans show a 7-Eleven. The chain has 43,800 convenience stores worldwide and 7,000 in the United States, according to the company.
Chabris, at Dallas headquarters, said in a telephone interview Friday that the chain intends to return to the Jacksonville market with multiple stores, starting next year.
She said one is under construction in Orange Park at Blanding Boulevard and Constitution Avenue.
Jacksonville-based Gate Petroleum Co. bought the 28 area 7-Eleven stores in 1990 and converted them to Gate Food Posts. Chabris said the noncompete clause with Gate has expired.
“We just think the timing is right for 7-Eleven particularly,†she said.
Chabris said the chain, which is privately held by a company based in Japan, intended to open 650 stores in 2011 in the U.S. and Canada.
“We have been on an accelerated growth plan,†she said.
The new locations in the Jacksonville area will be announced early next year, she said.
“We have targeted many areas for growth and we believe Jacksonville would be a good place for us to come back to and we see some good opportunities,†she said.
Last year, the chain announced the acquisition of 183 Exxon Mobil Corp. stores in Orlando and South Florida and has been converting those.
Chabris said the investment costs for a 7-Eleven depend on several factors, including whether it is converted or newly built. Each store employs an average of 8-10 people, she said.
Bloomberg News reported a year ago that 7-Eleven planned to spend $250,000 to $500,000 a store to remodel the Exxon locations in Florida over the following two years.
According to the Downtown Development Review Board documents, the new developer proposes to reduce the proposed Bahri structure from a 4,400-square-foot building to 3,000 square feet; eliminate the proposed outside seating facing Union Street; eliminate the canopy connecting the building to the gas pumps while keeping the canopy over the gas pumps; amending the sign package to reflect the brand; and reducing the square footage of the signage from the approved design.
Documents also show the applicant wants approval for multiple signs on the building’s State, Main and Union street sides and it wants to eliminate the entrances on the Main Street and Union Street frontages.
Among other action items, the board also is scheduled to consider final review of the Greyhound Terminal design.
The meeting is scheduled 2 p.m. Thursday at the Police and Fire Pension Fund Building at 1 W. Adams St. Downtown.
kmathis@baileypub.com
http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=535077 (http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=535077)
Im trying to picture this location . is this the lot next to the vacant S A Kyle Funeral Home?
I now see the initial post. It is .