This may cause some problems.
http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/topstories/news-article.aspx?storyid=163051&catid=3
for three people ...yes
Are rank and file bus drivers overpaid at 38K per year (close to $20/hour) plus nearly $3/hour pension pay which is 15% of the base pay? [15% is pretty high compared to the 3% to 6% typically found in private sector 401K's] Or is it just the JTA execs? Note the comment in the article about lousy bus drivers and service.
Here is text of article for easy reference:Quote
Jacksonville bus drivers want pay raise, threaten to strike
Source URL: http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2010-08-12/story/jta-bus-drivers-want-pay-raise-threaten-strike
By Larry Hannan
Despite the down economy, Jacksonville Transportation Authority bus drivers are threatening to strike if they don’t get a pay raise.
JTA officials said the union wants a 17 percent raise over three years. Union officials said they have asked for an 8 percent increase over four years.
But JTA management said Thursday no raises are coming and have presented a take-it-or-leave-it offer to the union that would freeze wages and health insurance benefits at the current pay levels.
Larry Allen, president of Amalgamated Transit Union 1197, said the 250 union members working for JTA will take a strike vote Sunday and are expected to reject the wage freeze at the same meeting. But, he said, an actual strike is weeks away.
About 10,000 to 12,000 people ride JTA buses every weekday.
“We remain open to working something out,†said Allen. “But JTA is trying to ram their offer down our throats.â€
But JTA said the union isn’t dealing with reality. Operations revenue has fallen from $73 million in 2008 to an estimated $55 million in 2010, spokeswoman Wendy Morrow said.
“The JTA believes it has put forward the best possible offer during the most trying economic times since the great depression,†Morrow said.
JTA did not have figures on how much the union’s pay increase requests would cost in total.
The fire and police unions have also been in tense negotiations with the city over new contracts that might result in pay cuts or pay freezes. But Allen said the situations are different.
“Police and fire make a lot more than we do,†he said. “Freezing our salaries hurts us more.â€
Allen said the average salary for JTA bus drivers is about $38,000 a year. Fraternal Order of Police President Nelson Cuba said the average police salary is about $47,000.
Health insurance costs increased by 17 percent in the last few years. The union wants an increase to make up for the health care costs, Allen said.
Allen said JTA wants the union to commit to freezing these levels for four years, while JTA claims it would be willing to revisit the issue after one year if the economy gets better.
Allen said the union is asking for an 8 percent pay increase over four years and additional assistance for health insurance during that time that will make up for the increased health care costs.
They are also asking JTA to increase the pension contributions from about $2.62 an hour to about $3.50 an hour, which would bring their numbers in line with what JTA mechanics get, Allen said.
The previous contract negotiated in 2006 gave bus operators a 12 percent pay increase over three years.
JTA gets most of its revenue from sales and gas taxes; gas taxes dropped from $30.4 million to $28.1 million from 2008 to 2009, and sales taxes dropped from $71 million to $64 million during the same time period.
If a strike occurs, JTA officials said they will offer as much bus service as possible. It’s not yet clear what that bus service would be.
“We recognize the importance of transit to the community,†said JTA Executive Director Michael Blaylock, “and how many people rely on our service each and every day to reach their jobs.â€
If a strike does occur, the Skyway, community shuttles and transit for the disabled will continue to operate because those drivers work for a different union.
People waiting for a bus at the Rosa Parks Transfer Station downtown were not amused at the possibility of a strike.
“Sometimes, as long as the bus takes, you would think they were already on strike,†said Inga Evans, 55, who was taking a bus to the airport to pick up a friend.
She was noncommittal when asked if the bus drivers deserve a raise.
“Some of them are good but some are nasty to the customers,†Evans said. “They pull off and leave you.â€
Greg Brown, 50, said he’d probably lose his job at Midwestern Beef Company if a strike occurred because he doesn’t have a car, and has to walk over a mile to his house after the bus drops him off.
“I couldn’t get to my job unless someone came and picked me up,†he said.
They think they should be making more than $38k a year on average? They're driving busses, not curing cancer. They should be thankful that they have a job and a pension!
If the bus drivers strike... perhaps the teachers should too... :)
Quote from: BridgeTroll on August 13, 2010, 07:10:17 AM
If the bus drivers strike... perhaps the teachers should too... :)
Been there, done that! 1968. Short term disaster, long term really helped the teachers and the school system. The parents and others who were brought in to cover the classrooms had their eyes opened and later became some of the strongest advocates for higher pay and reform.
BTW, starting pay for a new teacher in 1968 was $4800 per year. Cost of VW Beetle was $2200.
Quote from: Dog Walker on August 13, 2010, 08:45:36 AM
Been there, done that! 1968. Short term disaster, long term really helped the teachers and the school system. The parents and others who were brought in to cover the classrooms had their eyes opened and later became some of the strongest advocates for higher pay and reform.
BTW, starting pay for a new teacher in 1968 was $4800 per year. Cost of VW Beetle was $2200.
I remember that teacher's strike. My parents supported the teachers and felt it was the only way to get politicos and the populace to prioritize long neglected education funding. Is history repeating itself? Sadly, yes!
The problem, in part, as I recall, was not all teachers were unified or ballsy enough to use a strike to make their point so it sent a mixed message to those who wanted to make hay out of it but it was necessary and the right thing to do at the time.
Quote from: uptowngirl on August 12, 2010, 11:00:58 PM
for three people ...yes
Make that 4.
I actually use it more often than not.
Quote
The last contract was negotiated in 2006, and calls for a 12 percent pay increase over three years.
That's 4% per year increases. That's a hell of a lot better than a lot of people get, especially "in this economy."
I wonder over how long a time span is this proposed 17% increase? Over three years (5.6% per annum)? Over four (4.25% per)?
How much do they think they're entitled to? Once you negotiate and are guaranteed a 5% raise, you know you don't have to do anything to earn it. Which causes service quality to suffer. And they know that they can't get fired.
Poor idea. IMO, annual raises should be earned, not guaranteed.
No doubt... so if anybody has the right or need to strike it would be the teachers...
If anybody goes on strikes it should be the riders. They are the ones that have to deal with rude ghetto bus drivers.
:D :D
If a bus drives by a bus stop... but no one was there to get on it...
Was there really a bus? And did it drive by?
:D :D
Quote from: BridgeTroll on August 13, 2010, 11:34:35 AM
:D :D
If a bus drives by a bus stop... but no one was there to get on it...
Was there really a bus? And did it drive by?
:D :D
Jean-Paul just rolled over in his grave! LOL!
JTA keeps pushing for more concrete............whats wrong with this picture? Ridership has not been increased and have seen no plans to do so! But we have BRT coming.........who will drive the bus?
Quote from: CS Foltz on August 13, 2010, 01:25:01 PM
JTA keeps pushing for more concrete............whats wrong with this picture? Ridership has not been increased and have seen no plans to do so! But we have BRT coming.........who will drive the bus?
CS - where are you getting your numbers? As I understand it - ridership here in Jax is actually up slightly. You have to keep in mind that JTA is now offering new transit modes like the Community Shuttle in addition to the buses and trolleys. I suspect there has been some shift to those vehicles but the numbers are still up. Doesn't really matter what kind of vehicle it is - it still moves people from one p[lace to anther and isn't that really the point.
I think the economy has probably pushed some folks to JTA just as it did when gas prices were at $4/gallon. That kind of fluctuation is very common everywhere in mass transit though.
I am one of those teachers who probably won't be getting my scheduled step raises this year. I'm not happy about it, but I understand how the economy is. I'm glad to be working (at inner-city school who has made an A two years in a row I might add ;D). I'm not interested in striking. I'm getting a second job afterschool to make up the difference. That said I would be severely pissed if bus drivers get a raise when everyone else is expected to take a hit.
Quote from: Fallen Buckeye on August 13, 2010, 04:30:25 PM
I am one of those teachers who probably won't be getting my scheduled step raises this year. I'm not happy about it, but I understand how the economy is. I'm glad to be working (at inner-city school who has made an A two years in a row I might add ;D). I'm not interested in striking. I'm getting a second job afterschool to make up the difference. That said I would be severely pissed if bus drivers get a raise when everyone else is expected to take a hit.
Fallen Buckeye, thank you for your efforts. If any group of people deserve higher pay it's teachers, but unfortunately we are dealing with an economy that does make it necessary for everyone to take a hit. "Everyone" includes police officers, fire fighters, and - yes - bus drivers. They have the least of my sympathy. We regularly attempt to use public transportation, and every time we do must deal with rude drivers and late buses or buses that never show up (which is why I used the word "attempt" - more than once I've had to call a friend to pick me up after waiting more than an hour for a scheduled bus that never arrived).
Channe 4 did a story on this last night, they looked at July cost to run the buses, and revenue made... guess what? The revenue does not cover the loss. I believe they said total ridership was 35K in July, including connectors (you know one person who has to jump four buses to get where they are going). In a town this size,with our population, and taking into consideration connectors that is a pretty pitiful number.
exnewsman........last set of numbers that I saw was a total of about 35k in July.(look in this thread posted by uptowngirl) Zooming around like I usually do, when passing a bus, I take a look at the numbers riding at that time.........usually I am looking at about 12 people and usually less than that! A lot of it should have to do with the bus destination and whether it is inbound to downtown or outbound.........but either way I have never seen any bus anywhere with standing room only! Now New York City and those sized Cities that is the norm, standing room only, and with most every large City but Jacksonville right now.......no way! JTA is trying to get more bus action going without addressing the basic problem with shelters, advertising is promised to add shelters, and has not addressed the mundane problem with "Drivers" who hate the job and the public! For this we get to subsidize JTA and the bovines who run it? Something is wrong with this picture and the onslaught of BRT will not change much I am guessing!
It looks as though the bus drivers don't have the sympathy of the people on their side. No doubt about it far too many bus drivers are rude, and treat people that ride the buses as third class citizens. The Horror is hardly anybody launches a formal complaint. I did all the time when I rode the bus. My cell phone was on fire, I gave names when I could and bus numbers and times. This seems like much you do about nothing, but when someone develops a track record and has many similar complaints eventually something will be done.
It is not just the riders they tick off! How many times have those drivers ticked off other drivers on the road. Too many times too count!!!!
Bus Drivers vote to strike.
http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/topstories/news-article.aspx?storyid=163051&catid=3
This should be very very interesting!
:D Hilarious... :D
Teachers, police and Firemen are negotiating a pay cut... but the bus drivers union thinks they should get a large raise... and threaten to strike to do it!
freekin ballsey!
:D :D
not so quick BT...I'm not sure the police union is ready to except pay cuts yet
Wel it is good news for me, I will not have to put up with their nastiness and road hogging ane changing foolishness for awhile :-) Perhaps we will see it has no impact whatsoever....
No one in the private sector gives people in this line of work pensions anymore. The few grandfathered in are losing them little by little. Pensions should not be an issue. They are lucky they have one at all. And, everyone is paying more for medical insurance. I'd give them a 1.5% average (better drivers get a little more, worse ones get a little less) pay increase per year for the next three years and phase out pensions for all new drivers. Health insurance should be split, say 30/70 between the company and the employee for employee coverage, and 70/30 at best for family. Just like the private sector. And, the same rules need to apply to the executives and white collar workers. No one at JTA deserves anything better than the private sector, and based on the quality of their operation, maybe less.
If they don't like it, maybe JTA should privatize the driving of buses (not the management of the whole system although as bad as JTA is, maybe that should be looked at separately).
By the way, just having the news report a strike vote will insure riders find alternative modes of transit whether a strike occurs or not. (What rider can afford to wait to the last minute to find an alternative if they strike?) This will guarantee an indefinite drop in ridership resulting in even less need and resources for drivers. The drivers will lose here no matter what.
This make me wonder just how JTA is going to account for the ridership drop in their total numbers! This should be real interesting over the long haul! Silly bus drivers!
Quote from: CS Foltz on August 14, 2010, 03:41:05 PM
exnewsman........last set of numbers that I saw was a total of about 35k in July.(look in this thread posted by uptowngirl) Zooming around like I usually do, when passing a bus, I take a look at the numbers riding at that time.........usually I am looking at about 12 people and usually less than that! A lot of it should have to do with the bus destination and whether it is inbound to downtown or outbound.........but either way I have never seen any bus anywhere with standing room only! Now New York City and those sized Cities that is the norm, standing room only, and with most every large City but Jacksonville right now.......no way! JTA is trying to get more bus action going without addressing the basic problem with shelters, advertising is promised to add shelters, and has not addressed the mundane problem with "Drivers" who hate the job and the public! For this we get to subsidize JTA and the bovines who run it? Something is wrong with this picture and the onslaught of BRT will not change much I am guessing!
Should be 35k trips/day not for the month.
I stand corrected! Then I would have to ask...........if the ridership is 35k perday, do you consider, since the total population of Jacksonville is around 850,000 (pulled these number from the COJ homepage and not sure it reflects the past census) does that the number truely reflect JTA's mandate being fully implemented? I am not totally convinced that JTA is up front and honest with their numbers...........I mean, how do we know that is an accurate number? If it is, I would bet money that the majority of riders are concentrated in the north and west side with south and east numbers behind! I base this observation on looking at the number of riders when passing bus's!
Quote from: CS Foltz on August 16, 2010, 08:06:51 PM
I stand corrected! Then I would have to ask...........if the ridership is 35k perday, do you consider, since the total population of Jacksonville is around 850,000 (pulled these number from the COJ homepage and not sure it reflects the past census) does that the number truely reflect JTA's mandate being fully implemented? I am not totally convinced that JTA is up front and honest with their numbers...........I mean, how do we know that is an accurate number? If it is, I would bet money that the majority of riders are concentrated in the north and west side with south and east numbers behind! I base this observation on looking at the number of riders when passing bus's!
I would suppose your geographic determinations are correct. Not sure its all that relevent though where the riders originate as long as the needs are being met for the most part. Transit companies have technology that automatically counts the riders - that's why its trips and not people as most people will at least do a round trip or change buses... But if you add it all up - you're talking about 10-11 million trips/year for just the buses/trolleys. How does that compare to other transit agencies of similar size? Not sure.
exnewsman ....I have seen other info that said 10 to 12k perday. With JTA.......their own figures vary not only from day to day, but from study to study! It is really hard to say definitively just how many there are in real life! With that in mind, how does JTA plan anything or do accurate projections or anything that require solid real life numbers? This is one question that drives me up the wall and then some! With JTA planning additional roads, no rail and pining everything on bus's, I don't have much faith in them at all! Everything revolves around concrete and the creation thereof and it is plain not right! With them ......there are no other options......and this troubles me! They, if anyone, should have vision of what could be rather than what is!
the correct number for JTA bus ridership is around 35,000 per day....but remember, the average person makes around 5 trips per day...so there is likely around 4 million person trips made in Jax. every day....which meas that mode split to JTA buses is around 1%
tufsu............I have to ask - just who provides that 35K number?
I know you don't trust anyone...but the only entity that would know ridership is JTA....but don't worry, I think they've been pretty honest in showing the decrease of 2,000 riders per day
Quote from: tufsu1 on August 17, 2010, 09:10:11 PM
I think they've been pretty honest in showing the decrease of 2,000 riders per day
That could be a first! Still waiting for their current financial statements after 2 years. Tufsu, why don't you tell your JTA buddies this is embarrassing. Maybe they will listen to you.
http://www.jtafla.com/AboutJTA/showPage.aspx?Sel=32
stjr.........you too huh? Not holding my breath big guy! Numbers for riders appear to change depending on the scenerio! Still no financial data for the past two years and we are to believe their ridership numbers? tufsu, I would have to take those ridership numbers with a barrel of salt and can't blame no one but JTA.......they can take credit for this one!
QuoteJacksonville bus drivers willing to freeze salaries, but only for one year
JTA wants salary freeze for four years.
By Larry Hannan
A day after voting to strike, the union representing Jacksonville Transportation Authority bus drivers said it was willing to accept a deal that freezes members’ salaries and benefits.
But the union only will accept that freeze for one year, not the four years JTA is demanding, said Ken Kirk, international vice president for the Amalgamated Transit Union.
“We understand that these are bad economic times,†Kirk said. “But locking in a pay freeze for four years hurts our members too much.â€
Full Article:
http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2010-08-16/story/jta-bus-drivers-willing-freeze-salaries-only-one-year
Just got done using our wonderful public transportation system here in Jax. ::)
Ran over something on my bike and popped my tire so I decided to use the Riverside Trolley to go into DT instead of driving.
Personally, my income is down about 31% from last year. I work A LOT more this year, but hey in this economy that's just the way it is unfortunately. Im fortunate in that I still have gainful employment being in the profession that I am in(banking). But to have a bunch of bus drivers complain about not getting pay increases when they are just plain rude, not helpful in the least, and speed up the f*cking bus through yellow lights like pure jackasses... well, Im sorry that's just too bad IMO.
so how was the trolley ride?
Quote from: fsujax on September 03, 2010, 03:44:51 PM
so how was the trolley ride?
Quotewhen they are just plain rude, not helpful in the least, and speed up the f*cking bus through yellow lights like pure jackasses
:)
Quote from: fieldafm on September 03, 2010, 02:03:42 PM
Just got done using our wonderful public transportation system here in Jax. ::)
Ran over something on my bike and popped my tire so I decided to use the Riverside Trolley to go into DT instead of driving.
Personally, my income is down about 31% from last year. I work A LOT more this year, but hey in this economy that's just the way it is unfortunately. Im fortunate in that I still have gainful employment being in the profession that I am in(banking). But to have a bunch of bus drivers complain about not getting pay increases when they are just plain rude, not helpful in the least, and speed up the f*cking bus through yellow lights like pure jackasses... well, Im sorry that's just too bad IMO.
Sounds like a typical JTA experience...
Quotenot helpful in the least, and speed up the f*cking bus through yellow lights like pure jackasses...
A number of years ago my German distributor spent six weeks here in Jax both training with me and working on his private pilot's license. Flight training is MUCH less expensive here than in Europe.
Since he was driving around a lot, I warned him about Jacksonville driver's peculiar habit of running the red lights just after they changed. I warned him, if he was the first car in line, to count to five before going through the intersection after the light turned green.
He came to my office one day pale faced and shaking. He said that he remembered my warning when he was first in line downtown. Waited a couple of seconds and had a city bus run through the red light in front of him.
Seems like somethings haven't changed.
Gee..............just wait till we get BRT up and running! It will be the Grand Prix of Jacksonville!
Quote from: CS Foltz on September 05, 2010, 05:05:58 PM
Gee..............just wait till we get BRT up and running! It will be the Grand Prix of Jacksonville!
No kidding. The bus drivers are (I'm sure there are exceptions) generally the biggest bunch of dicks on the road. They try and cut you off, drive like idiots, run lights, etc. It's a good thing their buses are so slow, otherwise their attempts might actually work. And that would be annoying and dangerous, instead of funny but dangerous like it is now.
I agree ChriswUfGator! I really like it when they are parked in the road, taking on or letting off passengers, and just pull on out there! I don't care if it is State Law, I try and give them room and then some, but when they just whip on out there, gotta make that left hand turn...........I drive highly defensive and good thing too!
Coming back from the Landing Saturday night, I had four people in my car which was two more than on the bus that almost hit me making a right turn! Come up with a decent system or just park the monsters, they are wasting more energy and cash than the cars on the road and carrying less people!
Maybe we could train some "Illegals" who would be happy to be working at half of what the current crop of drivers are making? No pension............no benefits............straight up pay per hour!