I have a question for everyone, "Why do so many of you have such a problem parking downtown?"
I am there everyday, have been for years, and have had no problems parking - ever. I may not get to park directly in front of my location, I may have to walk a block or two, but we really need to get over it. The only time you should be able to park at the front door is when you get home. Without going back and quoting several people who post here daily - with one comment you're complaining about the amount of parking lots, parking garages, etc... and then the next minute you're complaining about not being able to find parking when you were going to go downtown. I don't get it.
Glass houses and all.... I know, but for the sake of argument, is it too much to ask of you to walk a block or three after you park? It's not for me, but I'm also 'park in the back of the lot' guy.
The latest thread was talking about parking issues in 5-Points. Yeah, I guess it's an issue if you drive from, say, St. Vincent's; you can't get your parking spot in front of Larry's at 12:30; you waste 30 minutes of your hour lunch driving around looking[/i] for a parking spot; get back to your office 5 minutes late; then post up on MJ about the parking issues in 5-points. Oak St is a nice street for a bike ride (5-10min tops). You could call in ahead and walk (15-20 min ea. way). The bus goes through there every 30 minutes, the trolley will be every 15.
Just Sayin'
I think the issue is not so much FINDING parking downtown. It's that the !@#$% meters have to be fed every thirty minutes or hour. I can always find parking on the street within a couple of blocks, but by the time I've hit the library and Chamblin's, I've either had to walk back that couple of blocks to feed the meter or get a ticket. All assuming of course that I still have enough quarters.
In SMART cities, like Savannah and Paris, I can buy as much parking as I need from a ticket machine with my debit card.
Another real-life situation:
I need to do business at City Hall Annex or the city offices at the Florida Theater. I park some distance away so that I can use the 2 hour spaces, instead of the closer 1 hr ones. This is because I don't know exactly how long it will take, and I want to avoid a ticket if there are other citizens ahead of me doing business.
If I get done in 2 hours, all is fine. But if it goes really long, then I may have to interrupt what I am doing and run back to feed the meter. Now this meter is some distance away and since it is now later in the day, it is much hotter. When I return to the building to conclude my business I now have sweat running down my shirt. From about 20 minutes prior to my parking expiration, I have been wondering, "do I have time to finish up and get back to the car or do I need to leave now"? The longer I wait, the greater chance I have to 'run' to feed the meter and really break into a sweat. But if I leave too soon, I might ruin the chance to simply finish my business and be able to leave without returning.
In Greenville, all but a few of the spaces are 2 hours, so I just park in the closest one. If I go over 2 hours, I will have to return to my car, but all the DT streets are lined with SHADE trees (not Palms) so at least it is a lot cooler. Plus I don't need quarters.
Also, if I get to City Hall annex, having paid for 2 hours of parking, and then get told that I need to go to City Hall instead, I haven't wasted the only quarters I had, which I might need for a space at City Hall.
you both are proving my point. If you're not just running in and out - pay the $3, get a spot in one of the numerous garages downtown and stop worrying about tickets. I do agree that we could use the smart-meters, but not until downtown becomes a tourist destination?!? If the locals are eating up the good spots, then why would anyone else want to venture - is what I'm trying to say. WE should be using the garages and the busses rather than bitching about their existence.
$3 for what? 1 hour? 2 hours? Which ones? I had always assumed they were all assigned spaces or $5+ minimum. Where would a lay person find out?
The open lots & garages are $3 all day. There's an attendent assigned to each one, if you can't find her, you just put your money in the box - located typically at the corner of the lots.
Why would anyone want to overpay for making a short visit to a dying half empty DT? What's happening is people are choosing to avoid the area completely if possible. Instead of attempting to force people to overpay, why not implement methods that are more user friendly for the environment you're offering?
lake............that makes too much sense...........so forgettaboutit! City Hall really discourages visiting downtown and I do like to show up at the "Ethics Commission Meeting"! TU would not think about keeping citizens informed and you have to show up inorder to know what is going on! I don't go downtown for anything that I can not handle over the net or the phone...........now crossing through to get to Three Layers does not require parking except when you get there! I have no problem parking anywhere close by and walking to get my cup filled but that is not downtown!
QuoteWhat's happening is people are choosing to avoid the area completely if possible. Instead of attempting to force people to overpay, why not implement methods that are more user friendly for the environment you're offering?
Plus 1.
Last Monday I had the day off and went down to watch the Jags practice. After it was over(around noon) I wanted to go to lunch. If I couldnt have just parked at the stadium for free and took the Bay Street Trolley to the Landing, I just would have head back to Riverside and ate. Wound up going to the Landing and then later City Hall Pub until the afternoon practice.
And even that was a pain in the rear b/c it took forever to catch the trolley both ways at the Landing and CHP. The headways are pretty long.
It's really just too much of a hassle to go downtown during the weekday. And I actually LIKE going downtown.
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on August 12, 2010, 02:34:55 PM
The open lots & garages are $3 all day. There's an attendent assigned to each one, if you can't find her, you just put your money in the box - located typically at the corner of the lots.
Which garages are $3 for the whole day?
And that's still too much money to pay to grab lunch, or a book, or to get a watch cleaned... or anything of the sort.
It's just too much of a hassle going downtown during the weekday. After 6pm and on the weekends, I have no problem going downtown.
Meters are for short-term (less than 2 hour) parking....the garages are meant for more long-term visits....you know, similar to how they do parking at airports.
So, if you plan on being downtown for a 1-2 hour lunch, the most you would pay at the meters is $2....and for lunch at the Landing, you can use their lot....which is $1 an hour, except on weekend nights and special events.
Now, I agree that the meters we have are antiquated at best and it sucks that they only take quarters...but really folks, if you run out of time on the meter, whose fault is it if you get a ticket?
Quote...but really folks, if you run out of time on the meter, whose fault is it if you get a ticket?
Or, if you stuffed enough quarters in for an hour, and you run over by say 10 minutes b/c you are stuck in line somewhere and can't necessarily leave your spot in line to run out and put another quarter in.
I never seem to be dowtown for an hour.. its always an hour and 15 minutes and the meters wont let you put that much money in.
Its a deterent, plain and simple.
I could get 8 people here at work log on and tell you about their recent experience having to go to the UPS Store downtown and how they will never go back downtown b/c of the tickets they all got :)
Quote from: tufsu1 on August 12, 2010, 03:14:47 PM
Meters are for short-term (less than 2 hour) parking....the garages are meant for more long-term visits....you know, similar to how they do parking at airports.
So, if you plan on being downtown for a 1-2 hour lunch, the most you would pay at the meters is $2....and for lunch at the Landing, you can use their lot....which is $1 an hour, except on weekend nights and special events.
Now, I agree that the meters we have are antiquated at best and it sucks that they only take quarters...but really folks, if you run out of time on the meter, whose fault is it if you get a ticket?
Instead of placing blame either way, to not deal with the hassle people are simply avoiding the area. That's as bad as it gets for future sustainability of the district. Why even let it get to that point?
Quote from: thelakelander on August 12, 2010, 04:24:21 PM
Instead of placing blame either way, to not deal with the hassle people are simply avoiding the area. That's as bad as it gets for future sustainability of the district. Why even let it get to that point?
Exactly.
Neighborhoods thrive in this city. Dowtown doesn't. And ignoring the people with $15 tickets in their hands that say they will never come back b/c well 'they just dont get it' is not the way to solve the problem.
It's not a perception problem. Its a REAL problem.
Left the Hobnob and was walking toward Berkman and a father and his son were next to me and I made a comment as we were on the riverwalk and just coming into the courthouse parking lot and I said "Look at all those parking tickets." Every car on the front row had a ticket. The father was bumbed.
The other day at Waterways when I got to my vehicle the meter maid was in front of my vehicle. I literally just had a couple of minutes. Guy behind me got the ticket.
I'm sure those $15 tickets add up.
Here's an aticle from the New York Times regarding free parking
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/15/business/economy/15view.html?_r=2
OK tufsu..........I understand the point! Could I ask, for the sake of discussion, how would one go about parking downtown on one of those "free parking spaces"? There are not any that I am aware of! Either pay a meter or pay for a parking stall! Either way I pay! Because of that, I don't go downtown unless there is no alternative! I ,for one, do like to attend Council Meetings, Ethics Commission meetings and anything else that interests me downtown! Have gotten one of those parking awards, was about 3 minutes late getting back to shove more quarters into the meter but that is the price you pay to keep informed! Will do it again when needed!
well CS...there are some free street spaces downtown....and all are free after 6pm (really after 5pm) and on weekends.
and I personally don't think there's a good alternative to the experience one gets at RAM, annual festivals, ArtWalk, concerts, sporting events, etc....so feel free to visit downtown!
Would love to, but City Hall meetings are not always at night! Ethics Commission meet at 1530 so either way, I need to park within 3 or 4 Blocks.....don't care to walk much further than that! So where is this "free parking" at may I ask?
I agree with CS there should be some free parking for these city meetings. I go to several and it is sad how people have to keep getting up to feed the meters and miss the meeting they came for (I am assuming they came for the meeting, not to feed meters). City meetings open to the public should be just that, open and free-including parking. I personally park at a structure so I do not have to worry about a ticket, but not everyone has $8 to park, or wants to spend it to sit through a meeting that they really only have one topic they are interested in.
Quote from: CS Foltz on August 23, 2010, 07:07:59 PM
Would love to, but City Hall meetings are not always at night! Ethics Commission meet at 1530 so either way, I need to park within 3 or 4 Blocks.....don't care to walk much further than that! So where is this "free parking" at may I ask?
free parking on Church St in the Cathedral District....also near the new courthouse.
Both are probably about 5 blocks from City Hall
Do they offer security gaurds to walk you to your car after the meeting? Some end at 11PM at night, and I do not think grandma should be walking that far alone at night DT.
well, one could leave the meeting for 15 minutes around 6pm and move the car to a nearby space.
Look, I know it isn't perfect....but how could you guarantee that free street spaces were only being used for folks going to Commission meetings (or doing other business at City Hall)....if using a lot, the City coul insitute a stamp program....like the Library already has.
Quote from: stephendare on August 24, 2010, 08:48:52 AM
Only in Jacksonville would the front page story be that major corporate employers are picking up stakes and moving out of downtown due to lack of affordable parking, and then Wednesday's front page be about how the City is having to pay 14 million dollars a year for unused parking spaces to the garages.
And you shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free.
Quote from: stephendare on August 24, 2010, 08:48:52 AM
Only in Jacksonville would the front page story be that major corporate employers are picking up stakes and moving out of downtown due to lack of affordable parking, and then Wednesday's front page be about how the City is having to pay 14 million dollars a year for unused parking spaces to the garages.
ok...I agree that the combined stories are a bit sad....but Jacksonville is far from the only major city losing employment in its downtown.
in fact, there was a story the other day on NPR that talked about downtown employment across the country....used to be that a significant # of metro. area jobs were in downtowns.
well today, apparently NYC and DC are the only 2 major cities with over 20% of their regional employment located downtown.....most other U.S. cities (Jax. included) have 5-10% of the region's employment in downtown.
Stephen you are having a good day on the posts.
Quote from: stephendare on August 24, 2010, 09:33:15 AM
It doesn't really matter whats happening in the other cities, TUFSU. We don't have to solve their problems. We have to solve ours. Even for you this post is a stretch from the truth. What does national unemployment have to do with Addeco moving out of downtown.
Nothing.
I'm not talking about national unemeployment...I'm talking about a shift from downtown employment to suburban employment that has been going on all over the country for the last 50 years
I was pretty clear in talking about changing trends regarding downtown's share of regional employment in cities throughout the country....how that directly relates to unemeployment is beyond me.
Quote from: tufsu1 on August 24, 2010, 10:00:03 AM
I was pretty clear in talking about changing trends regarding downtown's share of regional employment in cities throughout the country....how that directly relates to unemeployment is beyond me.
How about instead of using trends as the excuse for our Downtown we try to buck the trends.
Quote from: stephendare on August 24, 2010, 10:04:24 AM
ah. The Hundred Year View, eh?
And how you think that relates to the irony between a major employer moving out of downtown specifically because of parking, followed by a 14 million dollar payout for unfilled parking spaces in the downtown is beyond the rest of us. :D
The real question is, how much of that wasted $14MM could be recouped by re-doing the parking situation to include smart meters, more affordable garages, and the like?
Can anyone even begin to quantify that?
Quote from: stephendare on August 24, 2010, 10:12:01 AM
So there are only 110thousand workers in jacksonville? That would be fairly big news, as it would bring our unemployment rate up a bit.
Where did you come by this tidbit? ;)
ok...there you go spinning numbers again.
as has been stated many times, the downtown "office" market includes the northbank, southbank, stadium area, and Brooklyn/LaVilla.....also reported many times is that total employment in that area according to JEDC/DVI was around 54,000 in 2008/2009.
So, using the 5-10% range, that would mean regional employment for the Jax. metro area would be between 540,000 and 1,080,000.
And according to the Florida Statistical Abstract, employment in the metro area for 2007 was 587,000.
Any questions?
The metro area is most definitely not just Duval County.
Why are you comparing your 6000 workers in the Downtown Core to Tufsu's 54K workers in a much larger area?
54,000 in the entire downtown area....18,000 in the core....these are the figures from JEDC/DVI for 2008/2009 (regardless of whether you believe them or not)!
All we did in that other thread is figure out that there weren't 18,000 in the core anymore...and that it was likely closer to 12,000-15,000 in 2010....and I'm going to play along...
So, let's go with it....just say that the overall downtown area also decreased at a similar rate as the core itself...still leaves 36,000-45,000 as the total employment in the district in 2010....we'll call it 40,000 to be simple
So, if the Jax. metro area (which includes Clay, Duval, St. Johns, and Nassau counties) still has 587,000 jobs in 2010....then the downtown market would comprise 6.8%....which is similar to other cities throughout the country.
I'm not saying it is good....believe me I wish we had a 20% market share, like DC or NYC....but our problem is not unique...it is endemic of a nation-wide movement of employment out of traditional downtowns.
It is simple stupid really. What is DT right now during the day, that would bring people? Work- maybe the library. If work leaves, there will be no need for parking garages and lots. It has never made sense to me to charge people parking to go to work. It seems to me someone thought this is a great business and if the city supports it (by not offerring any alternative) then we can make a killing. Businesses know they have to pay enough to cover this parking expense, or move. When you take into consideration how many employees are making the trek to work (do not live DT) it just makes sense to move out of DT. The other cities you mention TUFSU have a huge population living in the urban core, it is like comparing apples to oranges.
i.e. parking is like an extra tax on employers, why should they pay it ?
Just got an e-mail from Cornerstone (Chamber of Commerce)...included was this:
Parking a Key Issue for Downtown Revitalization
The Chamber's Board of Governor's downtown revitalization committee has been meeting for several months. At its last meeting, the focus was on the parking environment in the core area of downtown. Presentations and discussions were held with leaders of JEDC, JTA and Downtown Vision, which showed the assets and challenges of downtown parking. There is a great deal of public and private parking in the downtown core area but it is not coordinated under one agency or easily understood by day or night users. Parking is considered by the committee as one of the critical elements that must be addressed and simplified as we move toward solutions on governance for downtown and increased vitality in the core area.
I have an idea to make it simpler pull out the meters and put in two hour limit signs. This seems to work very well in the more dense and more successful areas known as Riverside and San Marco. You can PM me for the info to send my consultants check.
stephen..........I agree! Something is about to take place and we taxpayers probably are not going to like it! There is some sort of plan and we will get to pay for it and that will be the extent of that! Business as usual for City Hall and theirs!
yawn
I figured it out stephen.............tufsu knows that the City will be selling leases on parking spaces! This is being advanced in an effort to increase revenue! They can make more money this way and it is self sustaining since they are not making any more parking spaces and I figure we will be losing half of the metered available spaces to increase worth on the ones left! Perfect sense to me! ::)
Here's a blog report from Ventura, CA
http://fulton4ventura.blogspot.com/2010/09/parking-management-that-actually.html
Good idea tufsu! Now I should ask .....when is City Hall going to hand out parking coupons? If an interested taxpayer shows up for zoning commision or Ethics or Council Meeting, starts vary and last time I attended one of those, too early for after 6 exemption and ended up parking down the hill from City Hall. That 4.5 hours cost me $10.00 and I really did not wish to park in a parking garage!