Metro Jacksonville

A few years ago, there was a news spotlight on Atlas Hovercrafts.  They were manufacturing a very large hovercraft on the old tarmac at Reynolds industrial complex in Green Cove Springs.  The owner (cant remember his name) was very enthusiastic about bringing hovercrafts into the mainstream and even envisioned a hovercraft ferry between downtown Jville and Clay County.  Anyways, no work has been done in at least 2 years, the building looks vacated (with nasty notes on the door from official type folks) and the hovercraft still sits out there frozen in time.  So, just another victum of  a bad economy?  Anyone know?
Thanks
Rick

ive never heard of this project....and the craft is just sitting out on the water?

No, not on the water.  It is sitting out on the concrete tarmac by the old hangars .  The company had a shop/administration bldg.  adjacent to where the hovercraft is setting.  This business employed quite a few folks a few years ago.  At lunch time, i would come down and watch them build this thing.  Then one day, all the people were gone, and the hovercraft was left setting there.  Quite an investment just sitting out there.
Rick

http://www.hovercraftalaska.com/mainpages/hnpages/cur_news/HNwrdarc.html

QuoteSeptember 15, 2006 - ATLAS Hovercraft

Floating an Idea: ATLAS chief hopes his hovercraft will soon be rolling on the river, Florida

PALATKA DAILY NEWS  , By Anthony DeMatteo  adematteo@palatkadailynews.com

GREEN COVE SPRINGS -- The head of a Green Cove Springs hovercraft company who addressed the Palatka City Commission last month said he hopes Palatka will have a port from which a ferry service can operate by next spring.

Kurt Peterson, the chief executive officer of ATLAS Hovercraft, said he is in discussions with the Jacksonville Transit Authority to permit his vessels’ commercial use of the St. Johns River.

Peterson said the transit authority has a regional charter governing use of the river.

A hovercraft travels on a pressurized bubble of air over land and sea.

The company’s vessels are 100-125 feet long and cost approximately $10 million each. The company would maintain ownership of the boats, sharing passenger revenue with the city.

Palatka has procured $1.7 million in federal grant money to fund the construction of a vessel or related infrastructure.

The project is the brainchild of Vice Mayor Mary Lawson Brown, who for 12 years has worked on bringing a passenger riverboat to town.

The switch to a hovercraft might be necessary, Brown said, because the state Department of Transportation wants proof the city can pay for the operation of any watercraft and funds are limited.

A hovercraft port could be funded with the grant money.

Peterson said he pitched the idea of the hovercraft coming to Palatka to Brown at a seminar this summer.

Brown said if the city gets one of the crafts, she will likely apply for additional grant money to fund the purchase of a paddleboat that could take passengers to Crescent City for a catfish dinner or to Welatka to munch on crabs.

“We’re still working on the paddleboat,” Brown said. “At the same time, we are working on getting the hovercraft here.”

Regional transport system

Both Brown and Peterson said they view the hovercraft plan as “regional” and are working with neighboring cities to participate.

Peterson said ATLAS, based in Green Cove Springs, would pay for the crafts’ operation, fuel and crew. He said at the August meeting that the company is considering relocating to Putnam County if it can find a location with a “free path” of about 100 feet to the river.

Palatka General Services Director Ken Venables said the city would likely split the fairs with ATLAS. Tickets prices are tentatively planned for about $10.

“The ticket price has to be reasonable â€" we want volume,” Venables said. “I think this could be the biggest thing to hit this area in years. I think we’ll see new business grow from this. I think entrepreneurs will see opportunities that I don’t. And it is certainly going to go beyond Palatka’s borders.”

Peterson said the company plans to build two to three dozen vessels a year, requiring 10 to 15 people working on each boat.

“Imagine the jobs that would bring if he brings the business to Palatka,” Venables said. “And we could be, essentially, his showroom.”

Venables said the hovercraft fleet could transport ambulances with sick passengers inside, allowing a safer, quicker ride to Jacksonville hospitals. He said the vessels have water-pumping capacity that might help extinguish fires on the river and could be used to evacuate people during a hurricane, when roads are often blocked with vehicles.

“The hovercraft is actually going to change the way people are transported during an emergency,” Peterson said. “It provides a faster, safer trip with no traffic and no railroad crossings.”

Venables said the demand for a fleet of the crafts taking people and cars to and from Jacksonville and neighboring communities might not be strong now, but with the city’s expansion, he wants to be ahead of the curve.

“I think we are going to have to create the demand,” he said. “This will open Palatka up.”

Brown agreed.

Peterson’s facility

At the ATLAS plant in Green Cove Springs, workers were busy putting together the first of the hovercrafts being built by the two-year-old company.

It has been ordered by a Chicago businessman to be used for diner cruises from the Navy Pier in the Windy City. It sits on an expanse of concrete at the industrial park ATLAS leases, needing two stories added to its deck and finishing touches completed before it’s ready for Chicago early next year. Peterson said it is constructed with space-age plastics bonded with glue rather than held together with rivets. When it’s finished, it will weigh about 90 tons and feature enough electricity to light two average subdivisions.

“If you didn’t know better you’d think it was made from steel or aluminum, but in reality, it’s an entirely plastic boat.”

Peterson demonstrates the maneuverability of the hovercrafts by controlling a scale model on a table in his large wherehouse, manipulating a joystick to turn the little vessel on a dime, smiling like a child operating a toy boat in a swimming pool.

Peterson said his business is booming. He expects to build between four and six hovercrafts next year and says ATLAS is growing at about 100 percent per quarter.

Other hovercraft uses

“Hovercraft can play a vital role in preventing terrorism because we are the ultimate patrol vessel,” Peterson said. “Hovercrafts can travel over the sea right up to the beach, on the beach and keep going. No other boat in the world can do this. We call it the ultimate Homeland Security vessel.”

The vessels are equipped with thermal imaging devices, allowing operators to travel at full speed in darkness.

“We have two types of radar on our hovercraft,” Peterson said. “One allows us to see the weather and one allows us to see through the weather.”

Peterson has a full-time staff of 20. With partners and satellite businesses, the workforce is about 100.

One facet of the business Peterson stresses is that it builds environmentally friendly vessels.

“Hovercraft technology is unique in that it is the only truly environmentally friendly watercraft in existence,” he said. “It has no propeller, no rudder and no hard structure touching the water when it’s in operation.”

He said the hovercrafts, which are glued together with “super adhesives,” run on soybean-based diesel fuel â€" a blend of organic and petroleum oils. He said all hydraulics have been eliminated from the vessels.

“Our diesel system from day one is positioned to take advantage of alternative sources,” he said. “We are stewards of the environment and this world. And it’s important for every company to strive to be as environmentally conscience and correct as you can be.”

Peterson said one of Florida’s favorite sea creatures should not fear an approaching hovercraft.

“We are completely benign when it comes to working in habitat with seas creatures like the manatee. You could literally drive over a manatee and he wouldn’t even know your’re there.”

Peterson said the St. Johns River is one of the most underutilized modes of transport in the state.

“I envision the St. Johns being a liquid highway for the entire region,” he said. “It’s just so easy for us to put down some asphalt and build a highway.”

Peterson said hoverports n essentially concrete slabs â€" are the cheapest docking facilities available.

“We’re not going to eliminate buses, cars or airplanes,” he said. “We are going to enhance and augment existing forms of public and private transportation.”

Peterson said ATLAS takes steps beyond those required by law in building the vessels to ensure their safety and quality.

“Our boats are not cheap,” he said. “Our hovercrafts are the most expensive in the world. But if I can give you a passenger vessel comparable in price to a conventional boat that consumes one-third to one-half the fuel and travels at two to three times the speed, in fuel savings alone an average commercial operator would save $2 to $3 million a year.”

QuoteGREEN COVE SPRINGS, FL -- Your daily commute could soon change in a big way. Instead of waiting on backed-up bridges, a First Coast inventor wants to take you underneath them.

The bumper-to-bumper traffic you deal with could one day be someone else's problem.

A Clay County man is building a ferry that would let folks enjoy a relaxing trip to and from work each day -- and they don't have to leave their cars behind.

His solution is a hovercraft.

Full Story...
http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/topstories/news-article.aspx?storyid=45759

I really think that were banking on a potential land swap of sorts in Fleming Island - I for one would have loved it.  Another potential spot would have been near the riverfront by the Orange Park Dog Track.....

QuoteUpdating Moccasin Slough
Zoning change from recreation park to public ownership already under way
Rezoning signs recently spotted at Moccasin Slough caused a stir among fans of the environmentally sensitive Fleming Island property.
Not to worry, said Clay County officials.
The property's land use and zoning classifications must be updated, under the terms of the state grant that purchased the Slough for the county in 2003. The land use was changed to recreation/preservation in 2006; the zoning change to the public ownership classification is now under way.
The signs are advertising an upcoming Planning Commission hearing on the rezoning, said county Planning Director Mike Kloehn. Up for the same change is Camp Chowenwaw, the former Girl Scout retreat the county purchased in 2006 and opened as a county park in 2007.
Contrary to some residents' fears, there is no move to allow residential or commercial development or otherwise revise the county's plans to create a park at the Slough, Kloehn said.
"People are putting one and one together and getting three," he said. "We used Florida Communities Trust money to buy it. One of the things we have to do under the management plan is have proper zoning."
Also, residents who are protective of the Slough need not worry about an earlier proposal to cut a road through the property, Kloehn said.
In April 2007, Atlas Hovercraft Inc. of Green Cove Springs said it was considering expanding its business from Reynolds Industrial Park to a lakefront parcel behind Moccasin Slough on the west side of U.S. 17. The company approached the Clay County Economic Development Committee, an advisory board for the Clay County Commission, to find out about potential road access to the property through Moccasin Slough.
Kloehn said that idea would not likely pass muster with the management plan or the terms of the state grant. Also, there is simply not enough upland for a road, said county Recreation Director Tom Price.
"There is not a whole lot of land to build on," he said, adding that there was never a formal application for the road and no further discussion about it since Atlas' initial inquiry last year. "I assumed that died on the vine."
The county intends to develop the 255-acre wildlife habitat as a passive nature park and wildlife preserve amid heavily developed Fleming Island, between U.S. 17 and the St. Johns River.
The management plan calls for park facilities including parking and picnic areas, a gazebo with benches, playground and a structure for environmental education programs, all in the southwest part of the site, along Raggedy Point Road. Also planned are an upland trail system and wetland boardwalk trail system with observation decks and a kayak launch.
"All the surveys are done. We're about to finish up with the construction plans," he said. "We haven't put a shovel in the dirt yet."
The property features a prairie, thick woods and freshwater marsh bordering the river between Westover Road on the north and Raggedy Point Road on the south. It is home to numerous waterfowl and two of Florida's oldest species: alligators and bald eagles.
Before its purchase, the southwestern corner of Moccasin Slough was zoned for development of 108 residences.
WANT TO GO?
The rezoning of Moccasin Slough to the public ownership classification is scheduled to be heard Tuesday by the Clay County Planning Commission, which makes recommendations to the Clay County Commission. The 7 p.m. meeting is in the fourth floor meeting room, County Administration Building, 477 Houston St., Green Cove Springs. ~~~FUTURE OF MOCCASIN SLOUGH
The management plan for Moccasin Slough includes a priority schedule of activities. Here is the schedule, according to a report filed in January to the Clay County Commission and the Florida Communities Trust:
- Archeological/historic survey: completed October 2004
- Monitor natural communities, survey species, remove exotic plants: begun April 2005, to be repeated every three years thereafter
- Invasive plant survey: completed August 2007
- Develop retention pond adjacent to Raggedy Point Road and wetlands: June 2008
- Construct park facilities - picnic area, gazebo with benches, playground and parking area: August 2008
- Construct upland trail system: September 2008
- Restore degraded areas and remove muck fill along U.S. 17: December 2008
- Begin part-time staffing for park management and education programs: January 2009
- Provide educational opportunities for the public including interpretive signage, educational programs and guided nature walks: January 2009 and ongoing thereafter
- Construct structure to house environmental education center, meeting area and restrooms: December 2010
- Construct wetland boardwalk trail system: May 2010 to 2014.

http://jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/020108/nec_242071134.shtml

This link has a photo of the hovercraft and states that the "Project is stalled".

http://www.dejongandlebet.com/996_AtlasHovercraft.htm

Quote from: subro on August 03, 2010, 01:22:48 PM

This link has a photo of the hovercraft and states that the "Project is stalled".

http://www.dejongandlebet.com/996_AtlasHovercraft.htm

I would say "stalled" is quite an understatement.  From the looks of things, the terms "bankrupt", "in default", etc. come to mind.  Thanks for the information.
Rick

Found this on a hovercraft forum:

QuotePosted 30 April 2008 - 12:43 PM

Group -

Hello! I'm still here and busy as ever!

The AH-100-P is finally in the home stretch. Good things take time and this build is no exception. However, I can say that what we have learned from building this Hovercraft is now being incorporated into the New Hovercraft for 2008 â€" 2009. The basic look will remain the same, but the changes are more internal and a function of manufacturing process than overall design.

The crew is smoothing out the exterior for paint while windows and doors are ready for installation. Most of the major system components are in place and there is a lot of wiring and plumbing going on. Working out these details on a “First Craft” is not an easy task! The R&D Department is also busy refining various aspects of the AH-100-P Hovercraft and working on some very interesting new applications. Confidentiality Agreements prevent me from giving you too many details in a public forum. Please keep in mind I do not intend to be evasive, but we are actively working with commercial and government interest projects concerning air cushion technology.

I will put together some recent pictures and post them.

My Best,

Kurt

Link is here:  http://www.hoverclubofamerica.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=1216&st=0

That exchange is over 2 years old.  Not sure it sheds any light on the current state of affairs.  Like i said, work stopped out there about 1.5 to 2 years ago.  So, i would expect such conversations to exist, back then.
Rick

Out of business!

I was out at Reynolds a few weeks back, shooting pictures of the new Camaro SS for a review, and what's left of the hovercraft is in sorry shape.  Apparently the owners of the facility don't take kindly to trespassers, either: I didn't get harassed, but I know of others who were run off the property.

I realize that I'm joining this conversation several months late, so let me start by saying that I'm an engineer that designed and built hovercraft for the US Navy and commercial customers. My former employer was Textron Marine & Land Systems (formerly, Bell Aerospace). I worked with them for 15 years on the USCG Swift-class SES's, US Navy LCAC's and several commercial/industrial hovercraft programs. I have continued to design small-scale hovercraft as a side job for the last 15 years.

I had the chance to visit Atlas Hovercrafts back 2007. I didn't get to meet Kurt Peterson, but I did get a chance to look around the facility. Compared to what I was used to, it looked like a small time operation. Apart from the engineering offices, there were no "facilities" like the ones I was used to. They were building it out in the open with no environmental controls of any kind, like they were building a float for the homecoming parade! A quick observation told me that this thing probably wouldn't work. In fact, it looked like they just scaled-up the model, without any consideration for increased strength and performance. But I didn't get to see any engineering, so I really don't know for sure what the numbers were. Just a gut feeling.

What's sad about the work stoppage, is that it gives transportation businesses and the general public a bad taste with regard to hovercraft viability as a legitimate source for economical and safe transportation. This is NOT new technology! It has been around successfully for 60 years! There are commercial hovercraft operating all over the world. But it's failures like this that sour people on the concept of air-cushioned transportation. I truly wanted to see them succeed. It would have given a boost to the industry. I don't know what the reasons for the stoppage of work or the chances are for a reboot of the project, but it doesn't appear that it will ever happen. Hopefully, Atlas, or someone, will try again.

Does ANYONE where Kurt Peterson is these days?

Quote from: UpOn2Wheels on August 03, 2010, 07:13:25 PM
I was out at Reynolds a few weeks back, shooting pictures of the new Camaro SS for a review, and what's left of the hovercraft is in sorry shape.  Apparently the owners of the facility don't take kindly to trespassers, either: I didn't get harassed, but I know of others who were run off the property.

Reality occured

The whole project was doomed anyway, as we have a parallel mainline (spell that 79 mph) railroad along the west side of the river and all of the populated east side from about north Mandarin into town. In both cases the train would have blown the socks off the hovercraft as it pierces the areas where people live-work-play.

Very few people live in the river, and the ones who live along the river certainly don't need ANY transit.

Just imagine that hovercraft at 3 pm on an August Afternoon when the visibility on the river is 100 feet and the lightning is falling like mortar rounds.

What would Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission or the Marine Patrol, DNR, or River Keeper, say about speed on the river, through the bridges etc...?

I don't think the project is completely "undesirable" but the broad and long route that was envisioned wasn't realistic. JTA needs to look at this again, with perhaps a smaller craft and THINK of how the other rivers could play into the role as opposed to laying out a route that parallels rail.

Certainly not a study but did anyone think about a narrow boat? Perhaps a hydroplane capable craft? Now think of the ORTEGA and clearing the snags from Blanding to Yukon... Uh, as in Argyle, Bellaire, Meadowbrook to NAS JAX? OR? Black Point at NAS JAX to downtown? Cedar River anyone? Arlington River/Pottsburg Creek could be worked as far as BEACH BLVD with bridge alterations. Blount Island? Zoo? Trout River Bridge east to the port? Connecting Timuquana and University Blvd with a cross river shuttle?

It could happen, but not with what is rotting on the Green Cove Springs tarmac.

OCKLAWAHA

QuoteConnecting Timuquana and University Blvd with a cross river shuttle?

I would gladly take a ferry from each to the other side, than drive 295/10/95! Good idea Ock!

Respectfully,
I think you would be one of the few willing to sit in his car for god knows how long waiting for ferry to return to your side of the river, then file like cattle onto ferry (think 100degrees in August with 99 percent humidity and you have to idle all this time for Air conditioning), slowly travel across river, then wait patiently to file like cattle (again) off ferry.  In the mean time, you could have traveled the route much quicker on the Buckman (if no accidents).  People in this country want to move and move now.  They wont be content doing all this sitting and sweating.  This stuff is fantasy in this country, just like commuter rail.  I read all this stuff here about how good an idea these modes of travel are.  The fact is, if there was a market for it, it would have been built.  If Amtrak, was left to its own devices, it would have failed a long time ago.  Instead, we the taxpayers spend quadrillions of money propping it up.  A ferry anywhere is just a novelty, ie a fun place to go for a Sunday drive (ala Mayport again).  The exceptions to this in this country are places where people are trying to get to islands, then it makes sense.  Otherwise, sorry, its a fantasy until things dramatically change in this country.
Rick

Quote from: RMHoward on December 05, 2010, 09:03:26 AM
Respectfully,
I think you would be one of the few willing to sit in his car for god knows how long waiting for ferry to return to your side of the river, then file like cattle onto ferry (think 100degrees in August with 99 percent humidity and you have to idle all this time for Air conditioning), slowly travel across river, then wait patiently to file like cattle (again) off ferry.  In the mean time, you could have traveled the route much quicker on the Buckman (if no accidents).  People in this country want to move and move now.  They wont be content doing all this sitting and sweating.  This stuff is fantasy in this country, just like commuter rail.  I read all this stuff here about how good an idea these modes of travel are.  The fact is, if there was a market for it, it would have been built.  If Amtrak, was left to its own devices, it would have failed a long time ago.  Instead, we the taxpayers spend quadrillions of money propping it up.  A ferry anywhere is just a novelty, ie a fun place to go for a Sunday drive (ala Mayport again).  The exceptions to this in this country are places where people are trying to get to islands, then it makes sense.  Otherwise, sorry, its a fantasy until things dramatically change in this country.
Rick

Amtrak? Your information about Amtrak is pretty skewed, sounds like you got it out of a John McCain brochure. Certainly Amtrak has had problems, not the least of which was the way it was set up by the Republican President at the onset. You get some grasp on this when I tell you that a certain Penn Central Executive went yelling and dancing through the railroad HQ, shouting at the top of his lungs, "We've done it! We've killed the passenger train!" Kind of makes one wonder just who the hell "we" is/was? Add to this 35 years of tea-party like attacks on anything rail, while boosting highway and airline spending through the stratosphere and the wonder becomes, how in the hell do we still have ANY AMTRAK?

Commuter rail is a success in almost every city where it is operated well. What started as a mitigation experiment in both Miami and Los Angeles, is today accounting for huge numbers of passengers who are NOT on Interstate 95 or 5/10/405 etc. Your contention that no one will ride falls apart when one considers that Los Angeles is the most "FREEwaycentric" society on earth, and since the start of Metro-Rail, it is also the fastest growing commuter, light, heavy rail, BRT, mass transit city in the world. Jacksonville will be no different, as the good folks in Orange Park/NAS discover a solution to the longest commute in Florida.

Ferry? I tend to agree in principal that a long wait is a deal killer, however a short run Al la river taxi downtown, is a desirable addition if for no other reason then development and tourism.

The real bank breaker? Highways and Airports have cost us untold trillions of dollars, and wrecked us as a fuel importing - dependent nation with bad air.

OCKLAWAHA

I had the opportunity to meet Ken Venables when he made a presentation to the Jacksonville Waterways Commission seeking a resolution of support for the city of Palatka and their attempt to provide water transport.

His efforts were advanced by councilwoman Self with a resolution 2007-0729 recognizing and supporting the regional transit service project and the city of Palatka's request for funding to establish and initiate water taxi service on the St. Johns River.

After his presentation I went outside with him and wished him well. But shared my immediate concerns that this may work in your part of the river but it won't happen in Jacksonville. I shared with him our recent legislative actions. 2005-207 the OFWB Old Fuller Warren Bridge. What a potential hovercraft, water taxi stop.

So where are we today. 2010-604 Shipyards/Landmar the Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier.

Pocket Parks-Pocket Piers. If we can have a pocket park in Jacksonville we can also have a pocket pier.

Two years ago I went to the commisioners of FIND (Florida Inland Navigation District) and asked if private money was raised for a pocket pier floating dock in Duval county would the commissioners of FIND match the other 1/2 and the answer is YES. You need a sponsor. A Mayor, A city councilmember. What a joke. Be concerned. We will be seeing less access.

That is why for me there is no way in heck I'd vote for anyone that won't support the immediate use of the pier. and the district benefit for the constituents of a council district who would impliment a pocket pier at a waterfront public access street end.

Riverside, Avondale?
San Marco?
Holmesdale Ave. Dist.4
Dist. 7 Hogans Creek
There are more

We can landlock Annie Lytle ( Still can't believe that)
2010-856- Pending legislation to ban Transient vendors throughout Duval county while we are in the middle of a JCCI study called Recession, Recovery, and Beyond

But HEY! We've got a light at the end of the tunnel because we have a J bill resolution for an "Urban Transition Area" in Riverside to create a special Drinking Zone. This just passed with council approval.

This is an election cycle. We need singles. We need to Make it Happen.

Keep score.

In my "transportation guy" opinion if Palatka really want's a marine service, they should be looking to small ship cruises. Return of the regularly scheduled boats on the St. Johns and Ocklawaha, between Jax and Eustis/Sanford would more then boost Palatka's port to a front focus. A interline agreement where Trailways or Red Bus met the boats at dockside for the journey to Disney, Epcot, Universal, MGM, or sites like the Ocala National Forest and St. Augustine, would top off a marketing effort. This COULD BE DONE.

Even the two ships in Green Cove Springs, the former Cape Cod Light, and the Cape May Light, could make the journey to Palatka if the state takes down the Shand's Bridge...
(http://www.gpai.com/images/vessels/Cape-Maylight.jpg)

QuoteGENERAL INFORMATION
NAME:    Sea Voyager
EX NAME:    Clipper Voyager, Cape May Light, Coastal Queen I
TYPE:    Passenger Vessel
OWNER:    Voyager Owner LLC
OPERATOR:    International Shipping Partners
CALL SIGN:    WDF3278
PORT OF REGISTRY:    Wilmington, DE
IMO NUMBER:    9213129
OFFICIAL NUMBER:    1103209
BUILDERS:    Atlantic Marine, Jacksonville, Florida
LAUNCHED:    2001
REFURBISHED:    N/A
CLASSIFICATION BY:    Lloyd’s Register 100 A1 Passenger ship LMC
BUILD TO SOLAS:    Lifesaving according to 46CFR and SOLAS 2000
MAIN DIMENSIONS
LENGTH OVERALL (LOA):    286.3 ft
BREADTH (MOLDED):    50 ft
DRAUGHT Upper-Deck:    20.0 ft
DRAUGHT (MAXIMUM):    13.5 ft
GROSS TONNAGE:    4954 ITC
NET TONNAGE:    1486 ITC
AIR DRAFT:    96.5 ft
SPEED AND CONSUMPTION
IN PORT:    4 ton/day
MANEUVERING SPEED:    6 kn = 6 ton/day + 7 ton/day
ECONOMICAL SPEED:    10 kn = 5 ton/day + 12 ton/day
FULL SPEED:    14 kn = 5 ton/day + 17 ton/day
TANK CAPACITY
HFO:    N/A
MGO:    248.70 m3
LUBOIL:    12.39 m3
FRESHWATER:    255.44 m3
CONDENSATE:    36.91 m3
BALLAST WATER:    218.40 m3
FIXED BALLAST:    160.00 ton
SEWAGE:    101.42 m3
DIRTY OIL:    10.74 m3
TECHNICAL INFORMATION
MAIN ENGINES:    2 x Caterpillar 3516 B Serial #: 9AN00178, 9AN00179 2 x 2000 HP, 1491 KW, 1800 RPM
AUXILIARY ENGINES:    2 x Caterpillar 3516 B
GENERATORS:    Serial #: 8KN00378, 8KN00379 2 x 2549 HP, 1901 KW, 1800 RPM 2 x 2261 KVA, 1825 KW, 2993 A 440 V, 60 Hz, 3 phase
EMERGENCY GENERATOR:    1 x Caterpillar 3406 Serial #: ISS00292 1 x 463 HP, 1800 RPM 1 x 394 KVA, 315 KW, 517 A, 440 V, 60 Hz, 3 phase
PROPELLERS:    2 x Schottel four blade 2 x 1212 R.L. Building No. 14434
RUDDER:    2 x Schottel 360 deg Azimuth
BOW-THRUSTER:    1 x Schottel 480 VAC, 3 ph, 738.6 KW
STABILIZERS:    N/A
BILGE WATER SEPARATOR:    1 x Heli-Sep 500 OCD 1 x OCD 2M 15 ppm Bilge Alarm
F.W. GENERATOR:    2 x VMT, Village Marine Tech BW-8000, Serial #: 9129 2 x 30 tons, 440 V, 60 Hz
SEWAGE TREATMENT:    1 x ORCA II, RCP 98040-MEA 500 RWT 98009-MW, 15,000 gal/day, 56 ton USCG #: 159.015/6309 6310/0
AIR-CONDITION PLANT:    2 x Carrier 90SMC0186-A132A1 SN: D99451, D99452 2 x 178.7 ton / 638.3 KW
ELEVATOR PAX:    1
ELEVATOR FOOD:    1
DRY PROVISION STORES:    2
REFRIGERATED STORES:    1
DEEP FREEZERS:    2
GARBAGE HANDLING:    1 x refrigerated storage room with plastic bins 1 x Can crusher
VOLTAGE ON BOARD:    440 V, 60 Hz 120 V, 60 Hz
PUBLIC ROOMS AND FACILITIES
Fog Cutters Pub:    42 chairs, 12 Bar chairs, 11 tables, 1 Piano, 150m2
Harbor Lights Lounge:    132 chairs, 8 Sofas, 40 tables, 1 Piano, 300 m2
The Rosecliff Restaurant:    30 tables, 132 chairs, 300 m2
Lighthouse Keepers Bar:    15 tables, 60 chairs, 120 m2
Gift Shop:    30 m2
Pursers Office:    30 m2
Launderette Passenger:    2 x Washer 2 x Dryer
Launderette Crew:    2 x Washer 2 x Dryer
Main Laundry:    2 x Washer 2 x Dryer 1 x Roller Press
Crew Mess:    18 chairs, 4 tables, 50 m2
PASSENGER CABINS
CABINS: 110    BEDS: 218
OUTSIDE 2 BED:    202
INSIDE 2 BED:    14
INSIDE 1 BED:    2
CREW CABINS
1 BED WITH FACILITIES:    7
2 BED WITH FACILITIES:    36

OCKLAWAHA

OcK,
John McCain brochure??  No, actually i talk regularly with my brother in law who is currently an avid rail nut as well as being an Amtrak Acela engineer between Wilmington DE an NY central station (20 years). Maybe i read one of his brochures.    All I said was that Amtrak is a money looser and always has been, thus propped up by the taxpayers (just like the post office by the way).  True or not??  Not sure how many CSPAN hearings i have seen in the last decade or so talking about another billion, or two or three to throw at Amtrak, in order for it to survive.  Leave it to this web site forum to immediately start slinging S#$%t toward the right (read tea party).  Yea, Ock, its all the Republicans fault, if it makes you happy.

PS assuming the state would tear down the Shands bridge, exactly what would all those folks on ships come to see in Palatka? 

Amtrak was formed under the direction of RICHARD NIXON, and strangled for cash by FORD (R), CARTER (D), REAGAN (R), BUSH (R), AND GW BUSH (R). Clinton did NOTHING for Amtrak either, even when he had control of both houses. OBAMA (D) Is the first US President to support passenger rail and yet in spite of the antagonistic history the company is still with us.

No need to sling shit here at the Tea Party with regards to Amtrak, they have done that all by themselves with the NO RAIL group out of Tampa, and the recent campaign peppered with anti-Amtrak posters. The NO TAX FOR TRACKS group is leading the charge, I can't help where their support comes from.

The Post Office recieves no tax support though this is a common belief.
see: http://www.usps.com/communications/newsroom/postalfacts.htm

I will shut up and cry when you can point out for me how much "profit" we made off of I-10, JTB, Roosevelt or I-95 last year. Oh and the new I-795 is going to be a real windfall...  Also, how much did we make off of the FAA, CAB, ATC, etc? Did you know if THEY were profitable we would have to add more then $150 dollars to every airline ticket on every flight? So I'm all for cutting Amtrak's budget just as soon as we stop funding the other modes at many times Amtrak's paltry rate.



OCKLAWAHA

quote
"I will shut up and cry when you can point out for me how much "profit" we made off of I-10, JTB, Roosevelt or I-95 last year"

I didnt argue for profit. I said they loose billions of dollars.  I dont want Amtrak to make a profit, just be self sustaining, at the very least.  Those roads you mention are used to full capacity, at least.  So, i think maybe we get a return on investment that way for our tax dollars. Another obvious difference is that i dont have to go to a ticket window infinitum every time i want to use I-10, JTB, Roosevelt, or I-95. 
Rick

Over 2,000 persons a day roll into Florida on 3 Amtrak trains. That is potentially 2,000 less automobiles on our roads for the investment of just 3 trains - imagine what the multiplier effect of that could be if we really supported them.

Guess you don't fly either?

Quote
What is “necessary” or “indispensable” about flying largely empty aircraft around various parts of the country? The official definition of what is “essential air service” is determined in a completely arbitrary and silly fashion. If a point on the map had scheduled air service at some time during the 1968-78 base period, it is entitled to a subsidy for the provision of scheduled air service until 1988.

Since most of these points receiving scheduled service between 1968 and 1978 were also receiving subsidies for this service, the decisive criterion for future subsidy is a historical demonstration of previously unviable or inefficient air service operations. In other words, past waste serves as the justification for future waste.

There should be no misunderstanding of what is being subsidized, though defenders of the program do their best to disseminate misleading interpretations of the meaning of “essential air service.” What is being subsidized is business and tourist travel. This program is not giving aid to the destitute. It is not feeding starving children. It is simply utilizing taxpayers’ money to allow businessmen and tourists to pay less than the full cost of their transportation. The subsidy can be substantial. On one series of routes in New England it amounts to about $40 per passenger. In Montana, it amounts to $90 per passenger, in Arizona to $200, and in one section of Nebraska over $600 per passenger.
SOURCE: http://www.thefreemanonline.org/columns/essential-air-service-subsidies-just-plane-foolish/

Quote
The DOT stepped in to preserve service to Macon under something called the Essential Air Service program.

A vestige of the long-ago days of regulated air service, when a federal board oversaw air routes and prices, the program ensures that certain smaller cities and rural areas are not left without service. The subsidy supplements the revenue of an airline chosen for the route.

After Delta said it would pull its flights from Macon, the DOT paid Delta to continue the service until it chose tiny GeorgiaSkies to take over. But GeorgiaSkies, which flies from Atlanta to Macon four times a day, has carried far fewer passengers than Delta.

The number of people flying the route last year averaged out to fewer than five a day each way. The DOT agreed to give GeorgiaSkies a $1.4 million subsidy, which worked out to $464 per round-trip passenger.

“That’s outrageous,” said Christopher Pelletier, one of two passengers -- not counting a reporter and photographer -- on a return flight to Atlanta Monday. He is from Seattle and has taken the Atlanta-Macon flight several times to visit family in the Warner Robins area. He said there’s never been more than one other passenger.

The service is a convenience, he said, adding, “but we’re all paying for that.”
SOURCE: http://www.ajc.com/business/atlanta-macon-flights-draw-569950.html

OCKLAWAHA

Quote from: stephendare on December 05, 2010, 01:51:56 PM

Quote from: RMHoward on December 05, 2010, 01:45:25 PM
quote
"I will shut up and cry when you can point out for me how much "profit" we made off of I-10, JTB, Roosevelt or I-95 last year"

I didnt argue for profit. I said they loose billions of dollars.  I dont want Amtrak to make a profit, just be self sustaining, at the very least.  Those roads you mention are used to full capacity, at least.  So, i think maybe we get a return on investment that way for our tax dollars. Another obvious difference is that i dont have to go to a ticket window infinitum every time i want to use I-10, JTB, Roosevelt, or I-95. 
Rick

So, how exactly did the roads break even then?  How are they 'self sustaining'?

Normally, roads are utilized to excess capacity before construction of new roads begins.  We dont normally build roads without a need. From a common sense perspective, i would say we get our money's worth on most roads, therefore break even. As far as i know, Highway administrators dont appear before congress regularly asking for billions with promises of shutting highways down if they dont get it.  I will accept not appearing before an appropriations committe regularly demanding billions in order to continue operations as a pretty good definition of self sustaining.  Keep in mind, one can be against passenger rail and also be against unneeded roads. 

Quote from: stephendare on December 05, 2010, 02:58:31 PM
Im still missing it, RMHoward.  Do the roads bring in income that pays for their existence?

Or are you holding the two forms of transportation to two entirely different standards?

1. I believe everyone who drives on roads pays a federal fuel excise tax, proceeds of which are used for other transportation projects.  Heard of that particular tax Stephen?  So, yes roads bring in income that pay for their existence.   Highways support interstate commerce which supports numerous tax bases assiociated with the sale of goods and services.  Highways move goods which are sold (sales taxes) and help to provide jobs (income taxes).  Taxes = revenue for state and federal governments. 

2.  No, i dont think so.  At this particular time in our history, there is an huge demand for one mode of transportation, not so much for the other. 

3.  Also, commuter rail rarely takes a person exactly where he/she wants to go and will always be that way.  We still rely on one of those other evil modes of transportation go get us there, whether its a smoke bellowing bus, or the Chevy Obama Volt taxi traveling over highways and biways. One mode of transportation can survive without the other, while the other cant.

Rick

Quote from: Ocklawaha on December 05, 2010, 02:15:39 PM
Over 2,000 persons a day roll into Florida on 3 Amtrak trains. That is potentially 2,000 less automobiles on our roads for the investment of just 3 trains - imagine what the multiplier effect of that could be if we really supported them.

Guess you don't fly either?

Quote
What is “necessary” or “indispensable” about flying largely empty aircraft around various parts of the country? The official definition of what is “essential air service” is determined in a completely arbitrary and silly fashion. If a point on the map had scheduled air service at some time during the 1968-78 base period, it is entitled to a subsidy for the provision of scheduled air service until 1988.

Since most of these points receiving scheduled service between 1968 and 1978 were also receiving subsidies for this service, the decisive criterion for future subsidy is a historical demonstration of previously unviable or inefficient air service operations. In other words, past waste serves as the justification for future waste.

There should be no misunderstanding of what is being subsidized, though defenders of the program do their best to disseminate misleading interpretations of the meaning of “essential air service.” What is being subsidized is business and tourist travel. This program is not giving aid to the destitute. It is not feeding starving children. It is simply utilizing taxpayers’ money to allow businessmen and tourists to pay less than the full cost of their transportation. The subsidy can be substantial. On one series of routes in New England it amounts to about $40 per passenger. In Montana, it amounts to $90 per passenger, in Arizona to $200, and in one section of Nebraska over $600 per passenger.
SOURCE: http://www.thefreemanonline.org/columns/essential-air-service-subsidies-just-plane-foolish/

Quote
The DOT stepped in to preserve service to Macon under something called the Essential Air Service program.

A vestige of the long-ago days of regulated air service, when a federal board oversaw air routes and prices, the program ensures that certain smaller cities and rural areas are not left without service. The subsidy supplements the revenue of an airline chosen for the route.

After Delta said it would pull its flights from Macon, the DOT paid Delta to continue the service until it chose tiny GeorgiaSkies to take over. But GeorgiaSkies, which flies from Atlanta to Macon four times a day, has carried far fewer passengers than Delta.

The number of people flying the route last year averaged out to fewer than five a day each way. The DOT agreed to give GeorgiaSkies a $1.4 million subsidy, which worked out to $464 per round-trip passenger.

“That’s outrageous,” said Christopher Pelletier, one of two passengers -- not counting a reporter and photographer -- on a return flight to Atlanta Monday. He is from Seattle and has taken the Atlanta-Macon flight several times to visit family in the Warner Robins area. He said there’s never been more than one other passenger.

The service is a convenience, he said, adding, “but we’re all paying for that.”
SOURCE: http://www.ajc.com/business/atlanta-macon-flights-draw-569950.html

OCKLAWAHA

Wow, Ock, a whole 2,000?????  Are you kidding?  That represents the Buckman bridge traffic in lets say 5 minutes, in one direction.  That greatly supports your point.  And what is the daily infrastructure costs of supporting those 3 trains and the rails they roll upon? 

Anyone that doubts that JTA COULD INDEED use the upper Ortega/McGirts Creek from A landing south of Blanding to Yukon/NAS JAX, Lakeshore, Cedar River, Downtown to mitigate the traffic in and out of the base, take a look at Europe's Crinin Canal. This narrow waterway, arguably narrower then a cleaned up Ortega would be, not only serves commercial and pleasure craft, but also the Royal Navy!

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3609/3698063555_5b73f86ffb.jpg)
Royal Navy, Archer class patrol boat certainly takes up some space, but it's still doable!

(http://www.skp.com.au/trips/shortcut.jpg)
Sailboats are deep draft craft (IE: there is as much boat UNDER the water as you see on top of it) yet they manage in the narrow waterways all over the EU.

DOES ANYBODY ELSE SEE ANY POSSIBILITIES HERE? UH? JTA should make the new Collins Road Bridge somewhat higher...



BOTH PHOTOS ABOVE - CRININ CANAL.


(http://www.fishingjacksonville.net/Images/Ringhaver-3.jpg)
Compare these photos with the narrow canal above... GET OUT OF THE BOX JTA!

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/898319952_YSBwY-M.jpg)

Same waterway different continent?



OCKLAWAHA

Quote from: stephendare on December 05, 2010, 03:28:01 PM
so roads are paid for entirely with tax money?

Also, there is another use for rail that you might have heard of.  Freight.

It is in fact where the backbone of the US commercial transportation takes place.  There is a helpful article on the subject at wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freight_train  ;)

Yea Stephen,
Well unless you or your friends are willing to make contributions to the effort, yea tax dollars pay for governement projects.  Thats the way it works.  As far as freight goes, im all for movement of freight via rails.  Its has become very efficient with the improved interface between ports/railroads.  In fact there are a number of private companies, ie CSX, FEC, to name a few that do it very profitably.  Its profitable because there is a demand for their services.   Never did i try to argue agains freight. Nice try though.

Quote from: RMHoward on December 05, 2010, 03:26:28 PM
Wow, Ock, a whole 2,000?????  Are you kidding?  That represents the Buckman bridge traffic in lets say 5 minutes, in one direction.  That greatly supports your point.  And what is the daily infrastructure costs of supporting those 3 trains and the rails they roll upon? 

Yes it's actually 2,712 daily on the three trains... and yes that is about xx minutes on the Buckman in the morning or evening. Now imagine how much cheaper Amtrak-Florida would become if the expense was spread out among 6 trains? Maybe 12? How about 24? You see it gets cheaper per train with every new train added. Station, plant, equipment costs raise very little... Passenger revenues rise quickly.

Look at what North Carolina has done... Oh and their no where near finished. What plans they have!

Quote
Amtrak ridership surges in North Carolina, on Triangle route
Triangle Business Journal - by Chris Baysden
Date: Friday, October 15, 2010, 2:44pm EDT - Last Modified: Friday, October 15, 2010, 3:13pm EDT
Related:
Travel
Enlarge Image

Passengers board an Amtrak train in Raleigh.

North Carolina’s Amtrak ridership grew 15 percent in fiscal year 2010 â€" more than double the national Amtrak ridership growth rate during the same period, according to a statement issued Friday by the North Carolina Department of Transportation.

The state-owned Piedmont, which travels four times daily between Raleigh and Charlotte, had the largest percentage increase in the nation at 46 percent. One reason for this increase is that mid-day service was added in June, NCDOT said.

Piedmont revenue grew 39 percent in the past year, from $1.12 million in fiscal year 2009 to $1.56 million in fiscal 2010. Revenue on the Carolinian line, which also runs through the Triangle, jumped 18 percent from $14.71 million in 2009 to $17.33 million in 2010.

North Carolina’s Amtrak ridership in the last fiscal year jumped up from 688,595 to 791,157. Ticket revenue increased more than 19 percent.

Amtrak National ridership, which includes all trains that run throughout the country, grew by 5.7 percent over 2009 from just over 27 million to 28.7 million passengers in 2010. Revenue rose nearly 9 percent in 2010.


Read more: Amtrak ridership surges in North Carolina, on Triangle route | Triangle Business Journal
http://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/stories/2010/10/11/daily69.html

OCKLAWAHA

Ock,
Im not trying to be a pain in your rear.  I just dont see it.  Maybe im wrong.  It seems to me that our era of passenger railroads is a bygone era.  When my wife and i travel west of Gainesville, to places like High Springs, Newberry, Alachua, etc (the real Florida, it seems to me), you see the remains/effects of railroads on those little towns.  It is very quaint and i love exploring the old lines.  I would love to see us go back to those times.  Maybe we will.  But, it seems like an uphill battle to me.  Its so hard to get anything done in this country anymore.   I like your idea of the Ortega river behind NAS Jax but i think it would be a better natrue cruise than one for transportation.
Rick

Don't sweat the small stuff. What you are noting is the complete transition of railroading from a single (lose car) industry to single industries, 5 man crews, divisions, shops, and depots... Indeed it was a really fun time to observe railroading and it is nearly as much fun exploring it's history. However that era has past, I am reminded of that with my recent experiences in South America. In Colombia the railroads built out at nearly 2,000 miles of track, but due in part to the mountains dividing it into distinct segments - even though it was connected and comprehensive the national system NEVER carried more then 19% of the nations substantial freight traffic. Keep in mind here the Colombia is one of the richest countries in natural resources in the entire world and that 24% of all food imported into the USA, 2nd in Oil imports, coal, ore, etc... all originate in Colombia. The railroad system that I worked with in 1982 was gone by 2000, the whole thing shut down and rotting away except for a couple of very short segments, like a cement branchline near Bogota. The old FCN was a microcosm of the US railroads of 1960. Overbuilt! Not so much in route miles but in plant, there were more yards, shops and divisions where crews were changed out then carter had pills. I went in with a group part of which included the Inspector General, and the Professor of Railway Engineering from the National University. What we accomplished could be considered by the nostalgic as wholesale slaughter! We took this former massive plant and slimmed it down to a single track mainline, sitting on high granite ballast, concrete ties and 90-110 pound rails. We inked deals with huge American-Brasilian-Colombian COAL companies, oil companies and agri-interests. Containers replaced box cars and modern American made diesels replaced aging steam locomotives or early diesel products.

To borrow the words of another alien educated in America, "We awakened a sleeping giant!"  Today the railroads are on the grow again, traffic is soaring, BILLIONS are being invested in a new cut-off from the plateau where Bogota is located to the Magdalena River. Locally, a new coal terminal is raising on the banks of the St. Johns River on north Talleyrand, and the little railroad with less then 19% is blowing downgrade with 200 car trains... Modern trains, single product, single commodity, single destination, single customer, computerized, and rolling at speeds unheard of just 30-40 years ago and doing it with 2 man crews working all the way through to the coast.

Guess who is talking about High Speed Trains? Yeah, that same little country is now looking at investment in new Spanish Built tilting trains that can handle the mountain curves at much higher speeds. All of this is a model of a new type of railroad, a railroad that has more in common with wireless internet then it does my beloved coal fired steamers...

This is the change that has many saying the railroad's are dead/dying/etc... YEP, just like a bunch of caterpillars and they are blooming into butterflies.


Hope this illustrates what I'm talking about, and passenger rail has experienced a similar change from yesterday to tomorrow...

OCKLAWAHA

Welcome to our show Captain, expert opinions welcome. As I live across the river from the giant hulk sitting at Green Cove Springs, I agree that it is a lost cause. At best maybe somebody could salvage it for a barge like houseboat... if it didn't sink first.

Hovercraft or conventional boats seem the only way to go, as I believe getting up on foils would involve some manatee slicing and dicing. Because of what is around the river frontage in northeast Florida I'm thinking a pseudo passenger ferry in the urban core, at most I could see something along the lines of a narrow boat reaching up the Ortega or Cedar, into downtown, but it might be more like "A Slow Boat to China."


OCKLAWAHA

 Hamrag said "self-professed transport 'experts''

Hey Hamrag,
Yes sometimes folks stray from the original topic.   I started this thread, so its ok with me.  Not sure anyone claimed to be an expert, however the whole idea of this forum is conversation, so get over your holier than thou attitude, Capt or not.  No lectures needed here from YOU about staying on topic.  Thanks for the insight on Atlas Hovercraft.  From the tone of your post, I take it that good old Kurt wouldnt take your advice, at one point?  Sure would be nice if Kurt would clean up after himself when he leaves a place.  Amazing he was able to find financing again, after the fiasco in Green Cove. 
Rick

Hi Howard, no lecture intended, so have removed my post lest it offends.

Well Hello
I realize I am coming into this on the tail end of things. I ran across this thread to and felt the need as a ex Atlas employee to put in my 2 cents. I followed this project from the beginning  2 years into it I became part of it. Feeling the need to set the record straight here.

Let me start by saying that the bigger picture for this project has been missed. We did not in any way think we would be the only option for travel up and down the river. We simply wanted to provide another choice to the public to make the trip. Getting even a small portion of the people that make the trip off the roads would decrease the amount of traffic on our roadways. Based on the operational cost studies, it would have been very affordable for the average person to make the trip. As for the environmental issue concerning the manitee, there is no part of the craft the travels through the water once the craft is on hover. Understanding the way the craft operates is key in any project moving forward concerning a hovercraft. All studies completed proved that the craft would actually be a positive impact on our river. (JTA has completed 2 studies).
The second part of this is Jacksonville river system was not our only focus. Looking at a bigger picture this size craft is more suited to run near coastal waters, which is why it would have been put into operation between Miami and the Florida Keys. This was no secrete and most people that where involved knew this. JTA or any other Company that was interested in learning what the project was about was given the information concerning the possibility of smaller craft. It was the intention to build the proper size craft for the job.
Now to answer the question that has inspired all of our input. Atlas closed it doors to it's employees in May 2008 due to the lack of funding. Even though hovercraft have been around for over 60 years there still those of us that do not understand the concept of it, proven by the earlier conversation. As for Kurt Peterson, it is my understanding that he is still in the area and has moved forward to other hover possibilities. Abandoning the Atlas craft to decay where it sits.