I had a thought of buying a plot of land & building something. My parents own a couple prefab steel structures they had built some years ago that they never really ended up utilizing, so they were thinking of selling them (they paid a lot of money for them). However, they would be willing to give one to me if I wanted.
They are industrial-looking in nature & a lot of people use them for retail space, barns, etc. But I do know that some people make these into residential homes. Actually the company (http://www.mortonbuildings.com/Default.aspx) that made these specific ones do residential dwellings (http://www.mortonbuildings.com/Home-Cabin/Morton-Buildings.aspx) as well.
I thought about having a crew disassembling one of these, transporting it down here (its in another state) & re-erecting it somewhere, perhaps making a livable industrial-styled space out of it. Would this even be allowed someplace like Springfield? It might look out of place in some of the quadrants, but I thought it may go well with the upper-east industrial warehouse quadrant.
P.S. Here is a Google Maps screenshot of a couple of them. Right now they're just basic skeletons (steel frame with metal sheeting), but you could pretty much do whatever you wanted to with them & add things just like any other structure.
(http://www.picpanda.com/images/lyfu7obirlwosyybzv9e.jpg)
If the cost is about the same why not buy and rehab an existing building in the Springfield warehouse district? That might be easier than finding a lot where a steel building would fit in with its surroundings and be somewhere you would want to live.
Quote from: urbanlibertarian on August 01, 2010, 09:10:09 AM
If the cost is about the same why not buy and rehab an existing building in the Springfield warehouse district? That might be easier than finding a lot where a steel building would fit in with its surroundings and be somewhere you would want to live.
I thought of that, but these are:
A. Somewhat new & in great sound condition
B. Still have a warranty on the materials from the manufacturer (which means a lot)
C. I know where they've been & the company that made them is considered tops in steel buildings
D. They're free. Which like I said, my folks paid a pretty penny for all you see here.
If it wasn't for that & if I had the means to do it, I'd be all about finding a smaller industrial historic building to make into a home though. I think it'd be cool as hell.
As you said you'd probably have to find a lot in the upper NE quadrant that is considered non-contributing.
I agree with Nvr, it would have to be a non-contributing lot. This is a histroic district.
You may find this project more trouble than it's worth. You will need the engineering on these buildings to have them permitted here. Having built steel buildings in Jax, expect a pretty high bar for wind loads to meet the hurricane standards. Typically, heavier columns, footer, and door frames and more steel supports and bracing. That alone could kill this project. I suggest you have a local engineer here review your structural blueprints and see if this is feasible.
When you add the cost to deconstruct the buildings, ship them here, do the site work, slab, reconstruct them, add insulation, utilities, interior finishes, etc., not to mention deal with the above engineering, you may decide the savings are minimal in relation to the total cost of the entire project. And, your time is worth something.
And, not to hurt your feelings, but as houses, these buildings don't look too attractive or imaginative. Where are all the windows? ;)
If this is something you are seriously interested in doing I would advice setting up a meeting with the HP staff at the Ed Ball Building (I am one of them) prior to getting to far into the process. I can imagine that this would be an expensive undertaking and you might want to get some kind of understanding about what kinds of concerns or issues that might arise before you get too far into the process. A lot would depend on which lot and what the surrounding structures looked like. I would advice contacting Joel McEachin, he's headed our department since Springfield became a local historic district and he can probably give you best guidance.
Granted you can put brick walls, stucco, block, or frame walls on a pre-engineered metal building. You can also add other architectural details to the roof to make it look more house like. But the look often comes with a price. You will have to find a lot in a non-deed restricted, no home owner's association area for this to be accepted.
As noted earlier you will have to have the engineering for permitting in the local area. The farther away from the beach the better for two reasons.
A. wind speed design requirements are less
B. corrosion is less.......depends upon the roof materials
If you seriously go after this using an erector that takes the building down, transports it, and re-erects it will reduce the surprises from lost items in transport. Hiring an erector that works exlcusively in metal building erection will also increase your success rate.
You will also need to install the slab and set anchor bolts before they bring the building. Which would mean a drawing showning layout, foundations and reinforcing for the "doing" and the permit.
Do not scrimp on insulation. The noise from rain and expansion will be annoying if you don't insulate it properly.
I've personally always wanted to turn a quonset hut into a house...but since I can't spell the word, perhaps I shouldn't.
There are actually worse looking houses in historic Springfield than what those metal buildings would end up looking like. A couple of them are even new...
I would suggest doing what HPC_Autumn suggested and getting some numbers and thoughts together and going to see Joel and the other good people who work in his department. It is one of those ideas that may be OK, but also could end up being too expensive for the result.
And rain on those metal buildings can put you right to sleep...I used to own a few and a nap or two happened from time to time.
Keep that fugly stuff out of Duval please.
No offense, and I understand that you're wanting to contribute to the neighborhood, but in all honesty, this isn't what's needed. If you're seriously considering this neighborhood, then take a look at what's available and already here.
Thanks for the advice (and criticism). Like I said, guys. This was just a thought I had to try to be resourceful & reuse things. Sure they're ugly. But these are just skeletons. Any structure is gonna look like crap when you strip it down to its bares.
BTW, speaking of steel, has anyone thought of using old shipping containers for homes or businesses for the area? It sounds crazy, but some of them are actually really cool looking. And they're pretty "green" as well if you do them right. I could see these as a funky art gallery or small business for the area.
I snagged some random pics & here is a Bob Vila video (http://video.bobvila.com/m/21320565/converting-steel-shipping-containers-to-housing.htm) where some folks are building some in Tampa (note the additional chapter videos to the right).
(http://www.theblogismine.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/10-Amazing-Shipping-Container-Homes.jpg)
(http://www.theblogismine.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/Ecopod.jpg)
(http://cdn.dornob.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/shipping-container-home-design.jpg)
(http://funktion.catalystexhibit.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/cool-architecture-2.jpg)
(http://funktion.catalystexhibit.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/shipping-container-homes.jpg)
It's a cool idea, but not in a historic district
Quote from: Springfielder on August 03, 2010, 08:48:14 AM
It's a cool idea, but not in a historic district
x1000.
sorry PSU, but even including the more industrial areas, this is
not the neighbourhood for that sort ov thing.
I'm probably going to blow some people's minds, but I actually would not mind a couple of those on ALREADY VACANT lots (big emphasis on already vacant) especially up near the warehouse district in the NE quadrant. There are several vacant lots along the south side of 12th Street, west of Pearl, that would work well, too, as there are warehouses across from them and nearby. If they were well done architecturally, like the top couple, I think they would be cool.
If nicely done, and that's the key, are they really any less appealing than the new "historic-style" homes currently being built as infill?
I know...it'll never happen...but FWIW, there's my two cents.
I feel LaVilla would be a good playground for architectural experimentation since there is nothing there. The Puma and Urban Outfitter stores each reuse containers inside their stores at St. Johns Town Center.
Debbie.... I would have to say I agree.... as much as I love the look of historic..some of these structures are quite attractive.. And I would venture to say they would probably lack little if any retrofitting to meet hurricane codes, as very similar buildings are constructed in Industrial parks all over the place...
Also to the Quonset Hut post... I actually saw one of these in Green Cove Springs , probably 15+
years ago, converted to a home.. I am pretty certain that since , it was gutted but it no doubt came from the Lee Field Navy Base ... Those are pretty wind-resistant structures.. The fact that they were in use in WWII certainly would render them historic.. I can understand why a neighborhood would not want an industrial building , or a Quonset Hut between two Victorian Houses in Springfield :)
The actual requirements for new construction in the Springfield Historic District have more to do with scale and things like set backs. The HPC and other community design review committees (along with public opinion) end up setting the policy that determines the look of the new construction. In Springfield, most of the new infill is actually of a style that was more often built in Riverside rather than actually in Springfield.
There is a good argument that even modern looking structures (with some kind of architectural interest preferably) fit into a Historic district as it is a good way to delineate the old from the new. Some information on this has been posted on MJ before.
Quote from: Debbie Thompson on August 03, 2010, 02:10:18 PM
I'm probably going to blow some people's minds, but I actually would not mind a couple of those on ALREADY VACANT lots (big emphasis on already vacant) especially up near the warehouse district in the NE quadrant. There are several vacant lots along the south side of 12th Street, west of Pearl, that would work well, too, as there are warehouses across from them and nearby. If they were well done architecturally, like the top couple, I think they would be cool.
If nicely done, and that's the key, are they really any less appealing than the new "historic-style" homes currently being built as infill?
I know...it'll never happen...but FWIW, there's my two cents.
Mind = BLOWN! ;D Nah I agree. I dont know about you guys, but one of the the things I like most about the area is its mixed use quirkiness. As beautiful as they are, it wouldnt be nearly as interesting a place if it were all residential big historic houses. You'll turn into Avondale before you know it. :P I like seeing random weird little buildings scattered throughout the neighborhood. Gives it more character IMO.
If you'll notice, all the great up & coming neighborhoods sorta do it like this. Springfield reminds me a lot of East Nashville. How its a historic district, but industrial looking too with the same quirkiness.
For instance, here's a weenie stand there (there's dozens of little neat places like this):
(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1218/1086253887_46a660cd8d.jpg)
Im sure some Springfielders would have a heart attack if something like this came to the area. But thats sorta my point. Just because you're in a historic district doesnt mean you have to focus solely on the past & hold on too tightly to it. Its OK to do some different things.
Quote from: strider on August 04, 2010, 08:25:01 AM
The actual requirements for new construction in the Springfield Historic District have more to do with scale and things like set backs. The HPC and other community design review committees (along with public opinion) end up setting the policy that determines the look of the new construction. In Springfield, most of the new infill is actually of a style that was more often built in Riverside rather than actually in Springfield.
There is a good argument that even modern looking structures (with some kind of architectural interest preferably) fit into a Historic district as it is a good way to delineate the old from the new. Some information on this has been posted on MJ before.
We're getting ready to find out, Strider. We'll be releasing some stuff soon, but you can follow along with the process here:
http://www.contentdg.com/category/modern-historic-district/ (http://www.contentdg.com/category/modern-historic-district/)
Quote from: peestandingup on August 04, 2010, 12:20:39 PM
Quote from: Debbie Thompson on August 03, 2010, 02:10:18 PM
I'm probably going to blow some people's minds, but I actually would not mind a couple of those on ALREADY VACANT lots (big emphasis on already vacant) especially up near the warehouse district in the NE quadrant. There are several vacant lots along the south side of 12th Street, west of Pearl, that would work well, too, as there are warehouses across from them and nearby. If they were well done architecturally, like the top couple, I think they would be cool.
If nicely done, and that's the key, are they really any less appealing than the new "historic-style" homes currently being built as infill?
I know...it'll never happen...but FWIW, there's my two cents.
Mind = BLOWN! ;D Nah I agree. I dont know about you guys, but one of the the things I like most about the area is its mixed use quirkiness. As beautiful as they are, it wouldnt be nearly as interesting a place if it were all residential big historic houses. You'll turn into Avondale before you know it. :P I like seeing random weird little buildings scattered throughout the neighborhood. Gives it more character IMO.
If you'll notice, all the great up & coming neighborhoods sorta do it like this. Springfield reminds me a lot of East Nashville. How its a historic district, but industrial looking too with the same quirkiness.
For instance, here's a weenie stand there (there's dozens of little neat places like this):
(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1218/1086253887_46a660cd8d.jpg)
Im sure some Springfielders would have a heart attack if something like this came to the area. But thats sorta my point. Just because you're in a historic district doesnt mean you have to focus solely on the past & hold on too tightly to it. Its OK to do some different things.
And umm What style of Architecture is this considered??
Looks like something you'd see on Trailer Park Boys ;) its kinda cool ... but um you're right.. The Springfield Folks would definitely protest ! :)
Quote from: Timkin on August 04, 2010, 05:12:04 PM
And umm What style of Architecture is this considered??
Looks like something you'd see on Trailer Park Boys ;) its kinda cool ... but um you're right.. The Springfield Folks would definitely protest ! :)
Oh I know they would. A simple car wash flipped many a lids. I honestly think it's a part of what's holding the neighborhood back (everything is scrutinized to death), but that's just my opinion. I guess some would prefer empty lots & houses falling down than new development?? :-\
But this was just an example. I used East Nashville because it's such a close match to Springfield. Historic, industrial, just outside of downtown, etc. Another southern up & comer. Although they're much further along than here, it still shows just because you're historic doesn't mean you have to relive the past entirely either. Seems to be working. I'd try to mimic them, but that's just me.
Quote from: peestandingup on August 04, 2010, 12:20:39 PM
Quote from: Debbie Thompson on August 03, 2010, 02:10:18 PM
I'm probably going to blow some people's minds, but I actually would not mind a couple of those on ALREADY VACANT lots (big emphasis on already vacant) especially up near the warehouse district in the NE quadrant. There are several vacant lots along the south side of 12th Street, west of Pearl, that would work well, too, as there are warehouses across from them and nearby. If they were well done architecturally, like the top couple, I think they would be cool.
If nicely done, and that's the key, are they really any less appealing than the new "historic-style" homes currently being built as infill?
I know...it'll never happen...but FWIW, there's my two cents.
Mind = BLOWN! ;D Nah I agree. I dont know about you guys, but one of the the things I like most about the area is its mixed use quirkiness. As beautiful as they are, it wouldnt be nearly as interesting a place if it were all residential big historic houses. You'll turn into Avondale before you know it. :P I like seeing random weird little buildings scattered throughout the neighborhood. Gives it more character IMO.
If you'll notice, all the great up & coming neighborhoods sorta do it like this. Springfield reminds me a lot of East Nashville. How its a historic district, but industrial looking too with the same quirkiness.
For instance, here's a weenie stand there (there's dozens of little neat places like this):
(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1218/1086253887_46a660cd8d.jpg)
Im sure some Springfielders would have a heart attack if something like this came to the area. But thats sorta my point. Just because you're in a historic district doesnt mean you have to focus solely on the past & hold on too tightly to it. Its OK to do some different things.
Well, I'm "Springfield folk" and I love, love,love this idea! How awesome would this be on Main Street? Add the Asheville double decker bus restaurant for good measure....
One of the Magic Mushroom Pizzamakers locations has the shell of an old School bus inside the building and they use it for seating.. its very cool..
This would not offend me as a business on a Main Thoroughfare.. As I stated earlier it would look strange between two old homes.. but then the home I live in is a Geodesic Dome House and it totally stands out from everything else around it...its very odd compared to the modern buildings around it.. At only a little more than 30 years old , I don't think it is up for consideration for historic status just yet ;)
I agree Timkin- this would be fantastic on Main St or 8th, in fact we NEED this on Main or 8th. We once discussed trying to save that old subway train to do the same thing. So is that what you are planning on doing peeingstandingup? Opening a weenie stand? I would support that on Main or 8th.
Quote from: uptowngirl on August 04, 2010, 11:09:44 PM
I agree Timkin- this would be fantastic on Main St or 8th, in fact we NEED this on Main or 8th. We once discussed trying to save that old subway train to do the same thing. So is that what you are planning on doing peeingstandingup? Opening a weenie stand? I would support that on Main or 8th.
Yeah, I was thinking Main or 8th as well. Hiding stuff like this in a more residential area wouldnt look right. And while I think similar businesses would look very good in the warehouse quad, Im not sure if it would get noticed up there just yet. At least not until development is much further along in that section. Plus, there's a lot of little vacant plots on 8th I notice so that might work better to attract people & passers by to the area. Put it right there so people can see & that says "Hey, this is cool & funky neighborhood. Check us out". That area of 8th & Main has an edginess to it as well thats attractive to me.
But yeah, it would have to be the right design & the right business. I'm gonna mull over a couple ideas I have & talk with some of my friends/artists in the area to see what they think. I have a plan, but wanna make sure its even doable & would be OK with the people of the neighborhood first. I may need to spitball with a small investor as well, but not sure its necessary just yet. I'll tell you guys more when the time's right. ;D
BTW, speaking of steel, has anyone thought of using old shipping containers for homes or businesses for the area? It sounds crazy, but some of them are actually really cool looking. And they're pretty "green" as well if you do them right. I could see these as a funky art gallery or small business for the area.
I snagged some random pics & here is a Bob Vila video (http://video.bobvila.com/m/21320565/converting-steel-shipping-containers-to-housing.htm) where some folks are building some in Tampa (note the additional chapter videos to the right).
(http://www.theblogismine.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/10-Amazing-Shipping-Container-Homes.jpg)
(http://www.theblogismine.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/Ecopod.jpg)
(http://cdn.dornob.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/shipping-container-home-design.jpg)
(http://funktion.catalystexhibit.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/cool-architecture-2.jpg)
(http://funktion.catalystexhibit.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/shipping-container-homes.jpg)
[/quote]
Your structures I think would be perfect down around the stadium and Talleyrand area. But your suggestion of a container being used as a business is right on target and this city could lead the state right now if it so chooses by attaching an amendment to 2010-604 that would separate the 680' Promised Public Pier from the 44 acres that was Shipyards/Landmar. The legislation is before the Jacksonville city council right now. The current administration is not interested so an amendment would have to come from a current city council member or from the next Mayor and city council.
Imagine the types of different containers. The VW BUS captures the spirit of what could immediately happen on the 680' Promised Public Pier if free enterprise and economic freedom were allowed to occur on this structure which is in the heart of our Downtown Jacksonville Overlay Zoning District 2003-627.
You would have more success with your steel building in an Overlay Zoning District as opposed to Historic District.
But back to the containers. We are a port city. 14 ports in the state of Florida. A container can be retrofitted for various economic opportunities.
1. Food container
2. Art container- Showcase a RAM artist on a rotational basis. This can also be tide in to any Art studios.
3. Sportsmans container- Mentioned this to Scott Shine member of the Jacksonville Waterways Commission
4. Exercise container- Schedule all types of classes. 1 hour sessions. Zumba class at 10 when your done hit the food container. Then take the River taxi to wherever you want to go. Everyone needs to realize that during Super Bowl XXXIX there was a floating dock at this location. BRING IT BACK.
5.Informational container- This could be the anchor container. Use a Blue Crowley container in the spirit of Blueprint for Prosperity. Informational kiosks. Work with Downtown Vision, Visit Jacksonville, Florida Theater, Arena, Baseball Grounds, Jaguars, "HEY" You mean we can buy a ticket right here right now and go and do something and we'll get a discount because we did it from this unbelievable location on our St. Johns River our American Heritage River right in the heart of our Downtown Jacksonville Overlay Zoning District. YES. Sign me up.
The legislation is before the city council right now and will be coming up for a vote. If the members of metrojacksonville want this then call up your elected legislative representatives because they have told me that they want to hear from you.
My council representative is Don Redman Dist. 4 He is the vice chair of RCD Recreation, Community,Development 2010-604 is in this committee right now. Don is also going to be approved to be on the Board of Downtown Vision. He has told me right to my face Noone if I don't hear from anybody on this I'm not going to do anything. He has a point. The number is 904-630-1377.
Call your favorite council person.
Back to the Steel building I wish you all the best. Most of this is in Dist. 7 There are some neat older pockets around the stadium too.
The South Austin Trailer Park and Eatery would blow their minds for sure.
Dont have time to post the photos but you can see them in the link. This place rocks.
Kind of like the photos above of East Nashville. Cake Balls on a stick are the bomb.
http://littleaustinite.com/2009/06/south-austin-trailer-park-and-eatery/ (http://littleaustinite.com/2009/06/south-austin-trailer-park-and-eatery/)
QuoteWith tacos on the brain after following the taco tour that Statesman food writer Addie Broyles did in Houston and wanting to sample all the trailer eats in town, what better place to start the adventure than the South Austin Trailer Park and Eatery. We arranged to meet with friends, packed up the kids, and off we trekked to 78704 bright and early at 8:30 am on Saturday.
The first thing our color-obsessed preschooler declared when we arrived was that she needed to have a red umbrella picnic table among the multi-colored picnic tables. Everything here is outdoors. There are plenty of unmarked parking spaces near a converted warehouse of sorts that can be used for live music, next to two trailers for Torchy’s Taco and Shuggie’s Burgers & Shakes. The La Dee Dah Gifts and Treats trailers are near the picnic tables. The eating area is marked off with hay bales, clearly a very high brow establishment.
We did a quick scan of the menu items and decided to order the homemade doughnut holes and scrambled eggs from Shuggie’s for the kids and a fried avocado taco and Baja shrimp taco from Torchy’s for us parental folks. We were given a number, and off we went to stake out a red umbrella picnic table. My preschooler and her buddy discovered the bench swing which they happily swung and waved at passing cars. They found two green lawn chairs and confiscated those for their own use. The kids picked through the fire pit and found sticks, leftover probably from a smores roasting the previous night. Too bad the La Dee Dah shop was not opened for the day yet. That would have entertained me during the wait for the food (about 10 minutes). The kids had a heck of a time looking at the odds and ends outside of the La Dee Dah Airstream.
A server brought us the food, and the kids dug in. The scrambled eggs (made more like a thin crepe) were tasty in that diner sort of way, where it picks up all the goodness from the one grill that cooks up everything the kitchen has to offer. The doughnut holes had the consistency of beignets and had a generous coating of cinnamon and sugar. The doughnut holes were delicious, but oh lordy, were they greasy! One doughnut hole is filling, let alone six in an order. The toddler got a hold of a doughnut hole, and it was a fight to wrestle that away from the kid.
We dug into the tacos, and damn Sam. Torchy’s makes good tacos. So it wasn’t even 9 am yet but who wants a breakfast taco when you can have a Baja shrimp taco. Hubby and I split the Baja shrimp taco (hand battered shrimp fried with cooked cabbage slaw, topped with pickled onions & jalapenos, queso fresco, cilantro and a lime wedge with creamy chipotle sauce), and he probably could have eaten several of these himself. At $4 for a taco, it was pricey, but this one is worth every dollar. Man, that was good, and it was not greasy surprisingly. We also split the fried avocado taco, and with just these two, Torchy’s has sealed the deal as my new favorite taqueria in Austin. I’m still licking my lips. Our friend tried the migas taco, and she said it was fabulous as well. The tacos here get the thumbs up from the adults.
South Austin Trailer Park and Eatery is BYOB. If we were sans kids, coming here with live entertainment in the evening, that would be so awesome, but 8:30 am on a Saturday, we didn’t take advantage of the BYOB.
So the drawbacks… For such simple dining, the tacos were not cheap, but I’ll forgive that with the tacos being oh so delicious. The parking lot and the eating area more or less run together, and when the kids were running around, they inevitably would end up in the parking lot. That was not as big of a deal pre-9 am as there were not many cars, but there were still a good number of people dining here so later in the day when there is more car traffic, that is dangerous. There are only two high chairs, but I wouldn’t bother with them. Just roll up a stroller next to the picnic table. There are two restrooms (one toilet each), and one was out of order so do the math on that one when the Austin heat, refried beans, and beer hit all at once. Fail.